Yeah well I hope not but I think you might be right in that.


As to the Revolution.
I think the ASIF is revolutionary.
I think the S-Bridge is revolutionary.
I think speed 32 ships and HETs on Impulse #1 will be revolutionary although the longer X2 drags out the less likely those seem.


I think we'll get rovlution in X2, just not the uber DF weapon that P6 refers to.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 11:44 am: Edit

No consensus was ever reached about XP. There were several options presented, and there may have been some agreement on a few things (like no x-warp, etc.) but on things like batteries, weapons, drones, etc. we did not all agree. I don't think that what they've come up with is that big of a problem. For the most part it does follow many of the suggestions made; no x-warp, no x-fire control, limited x-batteries, etc. Yes, there is some flexibility there that some won't like, as a dial-a-refit. I hardly think that means that "we the players" will all somehow not like XP. Some won't; that's inevitable. That hardly makes it a bad product.

By Roger Dupuy (Rogerdupuy) on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 02:51 pm: Edit

John, thanks for the salute. I plan to read much more...[sigh].

2 Questions:

JohnT: What is the "existing technological paradigm"?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
This is a case of the players not being aligned with the designer. If the direction of XP is any indication the players will lose.


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For all:
Is there any place other than P6 and smatterings of "SVC said" that dot this X2 topic where I can "get aligned with the designer"?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 02:55 pm: Edit

Not really. We did ask SVC last year if the stuff in P6 was still his intention, and he said yes. Other than that, he's said he isn't ready to look at X2 yet, so he isn't. He does occassionaly wander into this thread and will say "no" to certain things, but not often.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Roger,

Question 1:

Sorry to use unfamiliar terms.

"existing technological paradigm" = The general way and manner SFB ships currently run which is common to most or all ships. In this case it would be the "phasers + heavy weapons shooting at ablative shields" way of putting a SFB ship together.

Restating my point: A truly revolutionary way of doing weapons makes for huge balance problems and balance is a core SVC concern with X2. Andros and Jindos both use phasers + heavy weapons and just change a part of the way things are done and look at the balance issues both have cropped up.

Example: The Andros lost their TC in the late-90's because a group of people figured out a way to use its advantages to make it better than the rest. (Do they have a revised TC yet? I forget...)

Now multiply this by a whole new way of doing things and remember that this new way will be required to fight even-up with the phaser + heavy weapon + shield way of doing things.


Question 2:

For one-stop shopping for important comments by SVC, check out the "Link to CL23 X1 changes" topic.

By Roger Dupuy (Rogerdupuy) on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Thanks John.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 09:49 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

No consensus was ever reached about XP. There were several options presented, and there may have been some agreement on a few things (like no x-warp, etc.) but on things like batteries,

---

---

Quote:

Is there any place other than P6 and smatterings of "SVC said" that dot this X2 topic where I can "get aligned with the designer"?

---

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 04:36 am: Edit

John Trauger (Vorlonagent):

Just wanted to give you a status update.

I've finished up the homepage and a few other files. I can email you just those for now or send you the whole package when I'm done, your choice.

I've made sure I have altered as little as possible for now. This isn't my site, so I don't have any buisness adding/removing material. All I'm doing is a link tune-up and fixing obvious bugs.

Btw, is Firemane still around? Or did he(it is a He right? Sight is a little ambiguous) leave the community again?

I can't wait to tell Sir_Goofy that his Dirge for Democracy fan fic is coming back...

Thanks again for letting me work on this,

Merlin

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 06:21 pm: Edit

Adam,

Send me everything when you're done. That's easiest.

Thanks for doing the work.

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 10:00 pm: Edit

John Trauger: Sent!

Enjoy,

Merlin

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 11:11 pm: Edit

Got it

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:15 pm: Edit

John Trauger: Noticed the links are still not working on the Firemane page, and yet you have my updated homepage uploaded. Could you check to see if you have the other files of the site uploaded, and if so, if they are all in the same directory as the index.htm file?

Take care,

Merlin

By Roger Dupuy (Rogerdupuy) on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 04:27 pm: Edit

What about X2 phasers ignoring "shield boxes" but not General or Specific Shield Reinforcement?

Comments?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Adam,

I thought I cleaned out the folder and then uploaded just your stuff. I'll do that again.

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Roger: That would be... interesting. IMO it would be best used as a special firing mode or a different system of phaser, seperate and independent of the standard Ph-5 and Ph-6.

Maybe something the Seltorians come up with? They seem to have funky ways to deal with shields anyhow.

John: No pressure, I just want to find out the problem. I said I'd help you fix the website and that's what I'm trying to do. Again, no pressure and no problem. K? .

Merlin

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Adam,

It's a quick-fix.

Try again.

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:11 pm: Edit

No dice.

Merlin

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 05:04 pm: Edit

So anyway this Klingon thing. I've been looking at two Ph-1 possibilities for them. 1) X1-Ph-1 with Ph-3 rapid-fire or 2) X1-Ph-1 with Ph-6 rapid-fire. I think there's an argument to be made for the Ph-1/Ph-6 hybrid but the Ph-1/Ph-3 feels more natural.

I'm going on the assumption that Klingons are broke around Y205 and can't buy all the nifty toys the Federation could afford so they're likely to maximize firepower and manueverability as best they can (i.e. power). Added to a handful of other cool X2 toys they'll retain their fierce fighting reputation.

The Klingons would be easier to play because they'll have fewer "new rules" to work with. They'll be faster and have some surprises.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:44 am: Edit

Why would you assume the Klingons are worse off than anybody else?

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 01:53 am: Edit

I'm not saying the Klingons would be in the worst shape, but they would be pretty bad. Mostly because they've been at war far longer than most. The cats would be hurting just about as bad. The ISC too, given the special attention the Andros gave them. The Federation would be in the best shape given their economic power. The Romulans, Gorn, and Hydrans would be somewhere in between.

The Klingons would have to go back and "re-convince" a lot of their races to stay in the Empire. They'd have to do it quickly and so they'd rearm as quickly as they could. Under those conditions they'd be less likely to fully develop X2 as soon as (for example) the Federation.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 09:55 am: Edit

Sounds good, but the history doesn't support this conclusion. The Federation and Klingons were the last attacked by the Andros due to their being the two strongest and having a loose alliance. The Andros didn't become a critical threat to the Klingons until after the RTN was discovered. I don't have time or materials to reference the pertinent quotes but I'm pretty sure I've referenced this before in the Timeline thread.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:16 am: Edit

I also don't think it would be particularly difficult for the Klingons to "re-convince" their non-Vudar subject races, since none of those races have warships.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:17 am: Edit

I sort of use the middle ground. They don't use as many P5's as say the Feds or Gorn would, but do use them in small numbers, particularly in the boom...sort of like what they did with P1's and P2's back before the K refits.

I do agree that after Op Unity the Klingons are probably in pretty sad economic shape, given the nature of their economy. They have a huge military budget, and it had to be taxed not only by loosing the GW, but then being attacked by both the ISC and finally the Andros. But they do have a resource to get quick cash, and thats selling off good, cheap warships to newly independent planets during the trade wars. Lots of old stuff left laying around that they can quickly turn into cash to pay for new ships.

I think, though, that the Romulans are probably the worst off by that point, after having one capital devestated, loosing their asses in all three conflicts, and then having a civil war on top of all that, too.

By Roger Dupuy (Rogerdupuy) on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Yes, Mike, I would like the Romulans in the Trade wars era be the 'harrassment' race-kinda the 'non-BIG confrontation' mode i.e. mostly single ship duels or squadron stuff. Their X2 stuff can be inline with this.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 02:58 pm: Edit

The other thing of interest is the Romulans occupy a particularly desolate and racially homogenous region of space. Unlike the Klingons and Federation their independent colonies are populated with Romulans, who would generally prefer to be part of the Empire, or at least a great house. While their economy and starfleet are decimated there isn’t much that would prevent them from declaring that their original borders remain intact and few that would be interested in disputing this claim. I can imagine Romulan claim over as vast a number of empty parsecs, but without any way to police those parsecs.

The wild card in this is the Romulan Civil War. I don’t recall the outcome or how it would impact the reconstruction effort.

Regarding the Klingons if you assume for a moment that a P5 cannot rapid pulse you will see a distinct reason for fielding the P1 in quantity. I don’t know if many are ready to make that leap but it does reproduce the nice offensive/defensive feel of the P2 armed Klingons of yore.