It occured to me, with the publishment of the Tholian Phaser Cruiser, a phaser refit maybe something to consider along with the Photon and Web Caster refits.

I was looking at the pros and cons and this is what I boiled it down too:

1. Yes they would have more phaser to fire thgouth the webs. BUT you have to fly into the web to get them out, so would you feel your heavies against their phasers gives you enough of an edge to offset the damage you take while going in?

2. Yes they will have more energy to burn, instead of paying for heavies, it also means less long range punch and a softer medium range. Not to mention no overloads in close.

Anything else, either for or against it??

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Derek: Interesting idea. But the ship you would have after this refit, would be a godsend for a defending base commander. But away from the base it would quickly get munched by an equivalent sized ship.
The phasers on both ships will be in shouting distance of each other. In numbers and quality. For EX: The 4 Disr and 2 Drones from the D7 would be causing substantial damage at R8. But where the Klink would really shine would be at R15. The poor Phaser T would be unable to inflict serious damage in open space, at R15. While it's shields would be getting cut to pieces.
So what you've come up with a a very limited deployment ship. If you want all phasers go with a PC or an escort ship hiding behind the bases web. Where the T CV should be anyway.

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 03:47 pm: Edit

The Tholians have no problem with having limited deployment ships to help protect their bases. Just look at their web tender...
But I think they already have ships to take on the role of the phaser boat, the phaser cruiser and the improved PC. Not to mention that every other Tholian ship still have plenty of phaser 1's to fire.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 06:45 pm: Edit

What I'd like to see is that the Web Caster refit be an option for the CPA, at a cost of +15 BPV.

10 P1 and a WC. Now there's a ship than can defend a base AND fight in open space...

By Derek Myers (Solario) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Kenneth: That's the trade off vs. Klinks. They'd be charging their heavies while the Phaser refited Tholian closes the gap. Or maybe the Tholian spends the time to take long range fire to build a small web...some shield damage for a fortified position? But it opens a whole new realm of fighting for the Tholians. I don't think of it as limited, just not a PREFERED refit for open space fighting...and I think no one would really want a totally phasered fleet with no medium to long range damage potential...

BUT, I can see using one or two ships in a fleet as phaser refits for special missions or provide an increase in drone/plamsa defense vs Klinks/Roms.

By Derek Myers (Solario) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 07:02 pm: Edit

Rich: I thought the caster refit was available on anything larger than a war cruiser. After all its a general refit not ship specific. Only limited by production.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Derek:

Check the SSD it's NOT listed. Nor is it identified in the ship description.

By mike mendick (Mikey2) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 07:35 pm: Edit

{{--warning--gross oversimplification ahead.}}

a tholian cc with 12 p-1s?
that puts it in the same ballpark as the D5 at 15 hexes(barring ew, both statistically 12pts)
superior at 8 with stds(26 vs 16.66)
near equal with olds(26 vs 24.66)
near equal with uim olds(26 vs 28.666)
superior in all conditions at 4hexes
(46 vs 26-36.66-42)

I think this would do ok in mid range and closer

By Derek Myers (Solario) on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 08:53 am: Edit

Richard:

Reference "(R7.R2) WEB CASTER REFITS: The tholians were able to produce a very limited number of web caster weapons begining in Y184. These were used as follows:
Bases: One web caster replaced two disruptors in some modules of some starbases and battle statiosn. Each such change increases BPV by three points.
Prohibited Ships: War Cruisers and size 4 ships cannot have web casters.
Monitors: Only one or two monitors were refited with two web casters replacing four disruptors. This increased BPV by six points."

So, as I understand the rules, any ship except size 4 or War Cruisers can have the refit, hence the Tholian Phaser Cruiser, which isn't based on the War Cruiser design

Mike: Do you think it gives the Tholians an overbalance advantage? Would you be willing to face the CC in combat?

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:28 pm: Edit

Reposted from the Rules Q & A:

By Mike Filsinger (Growler) on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 09:48 pm:


Richard,

I don't see where R7.R2 implies that the refit can be applied. Granted, the CPA is not on the list of prohibited ships, but the rule really doesn't say anything about which ships did receive the refit. In the absence of a refit shown on the SSD, I would say that the ship probably did not receive the WC refit.

By Daniel K. Thompson (Brezgonne) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:29 pm: Edit

There is a differnce between did not and could not.

Is it eligible for the refit? Quite likly. It did not reate high enough on the list to recive it historcly however. I see no reason it could not have been given a cast if one was available.

By Derek Myers (Solario) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 08:23 pm: Edit

If you look at the SSDs of most Tholian ships the refit isn't listed, instead there is a separate SSD for the ships with the refit already added in.

So, in affect, the refit's for Tholians are handled slightly different from other races, where the refit isn't always included in the SSD but is still a viable option.