DJB101.0 Stealth Armour
In Y175, the Starfleet Corps of Engineers looked into the practically of a special 'sheath' that could be retro fitted to warp engines, reducing the emissions generated by the engines, making it harder spot on sensors. This stealth armour worked, but proved to be far to expensive to implement. Here is how it would have worked if it was implemented.

DJB101.1 Damage
DJB101.11 Each box of Stealth Armour is designated on the SSD as "ARM", and is associated with a warp engine, be it Left, Right or Center.
DJB101.12 Stealth Armour works much the same as normal Armour (D4.12), except as modified in this rule.
DJB101.121 Whenever a ship equipped with this system takes damage, resolve damage normally. Reinforcement, Shields, normal Armour, then to the DAC. Whenever damage is scored against a warp engine, first score it against the Stealth Armour associated with that specific engine. When all the armour is destroyed, resolve hits against the engine normally.
DJB101.122 No ship can be equipped with more than 4 boxes of stealth armour, and no more than 2 boxes on any given engine. SC 1 and 5 ships cannot be equipped with Stealth Armour.

DJB101.2 Effect
DJB101.21 Each box of Stealth Armour produces 1 point of "Natural" ECM for the equipped ship. This ECM does not count against the limit for self generation, self protection jamming, or lending.
DJB101.22 Any event or action that could blind a Special Sensor (G24.13) will remove 1 ECM from the ship, up to the amount given by the armour for a period of 8 impulses.

Example: A Federation Stealth Corvette Leader is in a fight with a Klingon F5. The ship is undamaged, and because of the Stealth, gains 4 ECM, or a +2 shift. On Turn 1, the Corvette fires 2 drones from it's racks. As firing drones does not blind Special Sensors, the ship does not loose any of the extra ECM. Later that turn, after the F5 misses with disruptors, the Corvette fires 2 Photons at the F5. This reduces the ECM by 2 (as Photon's blind channels under G14.1342) for a period of 8 impulses (DJB101.22) to 2 ECM, and a shift of +1.
Much later, the Corvette has begun to take internal damage. Rolling for damage, the Left Warp engine is hit. As there is still armour on that engine, one point of damage is allocated to the armour instead of the engine. This damage reduces the ECM granted to 3, and a +1 shift.


Comments?

Jon Berry

By John Trauger (Vorlon) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Suggest that each box of stealth armor replaces a box of warp if an existing design is refitted to include it.

This is in line with the corvette leader's warp power.

This is a dreadnought or battleship's refit as they lose the least even if they lose warp boxes. You might want to work up a reduced effect based on size class. Say on a MC=1 full cruiser, you get -1 ECM, so 4 boxed produce 3 and the last box is worthless. DN's and BBs divide the boxes by 2 and round down. (still max of 4 boxes mind you)

By Mark Kuyper (Mark_K) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 06:39 pm: Edit

John,
Or simply note that a ship gains natural ECM equal to its size class. For each engine hit it takes, this bonus is reduced by one.

Makes it really useful for a SC 4 frigate while making it less useful for that DN/BB. This could even be SC/2.

By Mark Kuyper (Mark_K) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 07:00 pm: Edit

I had a bit of a unique answer to why this armor wouldn't be used on DNs. It costs 2 BVP per point of warp power its masking.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 09:44 pm: Edit

I'ld say that stealth armour can only be used on vessels that already have armour.

The ship has to be remade rather than refitted.

Each stealth armour box provides 1 ECM and is destroyed like regular armour.

I'ld make it an X-rule and thus allow X-tech versions of Armour using ships.

E.g. X Q-ships and Rom X-WE and Fed X-CL.


This way the massive Volume given up for armour is replaced by the volume lost giving the vessel a Stealth Form.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:10 pm: Edit

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Quote:

I'ld say that stealth armour can only be used on vessels that already have armour

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By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:04 am: Edit

Why does this system, designed to mask engine emissions, stop any damage at all? It seems like a strange hybrid of Orion stealth hull and Qari directional armour.

And as such, doesnt seem warranted.

By Rick Dykstra (Rickdykstra) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:31 am: Edit

Just from the sound of the system, wouldn't it make more sense to have stealth warp as a separate type of warp? No extra boxes on the ssd but provides a stealth bonus based on the size class of the ship or some other formula.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:51 am: Edit

I'd require the ship to be using passive fire control ('silent running') to get the bonus ECM. With that proviso, swapping stealth whatsits - don't call it armour, call it a warp muffler or something - one for one with warp boxes feels roughly balanced to me. You get an advantage (higher maximum ECM, since the stealth ECM doesn't use up the self-generated limit) and a disadvantage (effectively, you have one power that cannot be used for any other function).

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:11 am: Edit

I think if it were me, I'd work it like this. The system would be activated, say at a cost of two points of warp power per nacelle. In addition, you would have a max speed of 20. This would get you the ECM bonus Jon describes. I agree with Rick that it shouldn't necessarily provide protection, either. Just count any engine hits on the system first, before actual engine damage.

By Jon Berry (Laz_Longsmith) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 01:56 pm: Edit

Alrighty, V2.0

DJB101.0 Stealth Sheath
In Y175, the Starfleet Corps of Engineers looked into the practically of a special 'sheath' that could be retro fitted to warp engines, reducing the emissions generated by the engines, making it harder spot on sensors. This sheath worked, but proved to be far to expensive to implement. Here is how it would have worked if it was implemented.

DJB101.1 Damage
DJB101.11 Each box of Stealth Sheath is designated on the SSD as "STH", and is associated with a warp engine, be it Left, Right or Center.
DJB101.12 Stealth Sheath works much the same as normal Armour (D4.12), except as modified in this rule.
DJB101.121 Whenever a ship equipped with this system takes damage, resolve damage normally. Reinforcement, Shields, normal Armour, then to the DAC. Whenever damage is scored against a warp engine, first score it against the Engine, and score an additional point against the Sheath associated with that specific engine. When the sheath for that engine is destroyed, resolve hits against the engine normally.
DJB101.122 No ship can be equipped with more than 4 boxes of stealth armour, and no more than 2 boxes on any given engine. SC 1 and 5 ships cannot be equipped with Stealth Armour.

DJB101.2 Effect
DJB101.21 The Stealth Sheath, to work, must be energized at the cost of 2 points of Warp Power. If this power is not applied, the sheath does not work, and does not provide anybonus. The sheath can be armed during Energy Allocation or by Reserve Power during the Operate Shields portion of the Impulse.
DJB101.211 Each box of Stealth Sheath produces 1 point of "Natural" ECM for the equipped ship. This ECM does not count against the limit for self generation, self protection jamming, or lending. The maximum ECM bonus is equal to the Size class of the ship, with the exception of Battle Ships, which gain to benifit whatsoever for the Stealth Sheath
DJB101.22 Any event or action that could blind a Special Sensor (G24.13) will remove 1 ECM from the ship, up to the amount given by the sheath for a period of 8 impulses.
DJB101.221 The ECM bonus does not work if the ship has Active Fire Control operating. Being Crippled also voids the remaining ECM bonus, although the system will still take damage if the engine is hit. Having Passive, or Low powered Fire Control does not void the ECM, neither does Erratic Maneuvers.

There. Comments?

By Mark Kuyper (Mark_K) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Jon,
Three things.
1) I'd not have this add boxes. Instead I'd have damage to the engines reduce the bonus. This would keep it as a "Stealth" system instead of having it as a way to armor engines.

2) I'd have the maximum ECM equal to the ships size class. A DN could get upto +2 ECM. A frigate upto +4. Makes sence since the frigate has smaller engines (and a smaller energy signature) to begin with.

3) For "DJB101.21", I'd make the cost equal to half the energy spent on movement. I wouldn't require warp though. This means a DN moving speed 10 would be paying 7.5 to mask its warp signature while an F5 moving the same speed would only be paying 2.5. This built in scaling would make it practical to put this tech on something besides DNs.

In all, this is a really neat idea for recon type scenarios. As is its a bit to useful for some combat ships (read Hydrans and Romulans) because of their standard operating procedures. If we can work this out to be more useful for "Sneak and creap" type situations and less so for "Cover while closing" this will really turn into what I think you intended.

By Jon Berry (Laz_Longsmith) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Mark:
Point #1) Perhaps the ECM is based on the fraction of Engines left? 100% = full effect, loose 25% of the engines to recuce the ECM to 3, 50% = 2, 75% = 1? Although "Stealth Warp" would have to be moved to the H section.

Point #2)See the last half of DJB101.211

Point #3)I agree completely.

But the question is how to do one, without allowing players to do the other?

Now, how much is this stuff gonna cost?

--
Jon Berry

By Mark Kuyper (Mark_K) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Jon,
Thinking it through, I was partly wrong with my item 3. Yes warp SHOULD be required. That will keep everything besides CWs limited to a max speed of 21. CWs could get upto 25 (same with CFs).

More specifically we could tie it in as "You must use one third of your warp movement to pay for the ECM". That would limit ALL ships to a max of speed 21. Would that work?

Thanks, I didn't see the MC line in DJB101.211. Please ignore my 2nd item.

By Kevin M. McCollum (Sfbl5r) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Wow. Better stealth than the Orion pirates without all of the penalties the Orion ships have built in. Great.

By Jon Berry (Laz_Longsmith) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Alright, howabout V3.0?

HJB101.0 Stealth Warp
In Y175, the Starfleet Corps of Engineers looked into the practically of a special 'sheath' that could be retro fitted to warp engines, reducing the emissions generated by the engines, making it harder spot on sensors. This stealth sheath worked, but proved to be far to expensive to implement. Here is how it would have worked if it was implemented.

HJB101.1 Designation
HJB101.11 Ships equipped with Stealth Warp are so noted on their SSD.
HJB101.12 Stealth Warp acts as normal Warp (H2.0) except as modified by this rule.
HJB101.13 All warp boxes on a ship must be Stealth Warp, or none at all. Stealth Warp cannot be placed onto SC1 or 5 ships.

HJB101.2 Effect
HJB101.21 A Ship equipped with Stealth Warp produces 'natural' ECM equal to the ships Size Class, except as noted in this rule. This ECM does not count against the limits for self generation, self-protection jamming and lending. This ECM does stack with other sources of 'natural' ECM such as Asteroids(P3.0) and Nebulae(P6.0).
HJB101.22 To operate Stealth Warp, the ship must apply power equal to 1/2 the power applied to Warp Movement. Failure to apply this power will mean that no ECM is produced. This power must be warp power.
HJB101.23 Stealth Warps effectiveness is reduced as damage is delt to the warp systems of the ship.
HJB101.231 A ship generates the maximum allowable ECM as long as all the Warp power is undamaged.
HJB101.2311 SC4 ships loose 1 point of ECM for every 25% of thier warp power that they lose.
HJB101.2312 SC3 ships loose 1 point of ECM for every 33% of thier warp power that they lose.
HJB101.2313 SC2 ships loose 1 point of ECM for every 50% of thier warp power that they lose.
HJB101.23131 Battleships only generate 1 point of ECM, and loose that if they take any warp damage.
HJB101.24 A ship can loose the Stealth Warp bonus under certain circumstances.
HJB101.241 Any action or event that can blind a special sensor(G24.13) will void one point of ECM for a period of 8 impulses.
HJB101.242 If a ship operates Active Fire Control (and, by extension Aegis or ECCM) all the ECM bonus will be voided. Having Passive, or Low Power Fire Control does not void any ECM.
HJB101.243 The ECM provided by Stealth Warp does not stack with the ECM provided by Orion stealth, or by Cloaking Devices.

Now what do you think?
1)How much (BVP wise) will it cost to upgrade normal warp to Stealth Warp?
2)?

By Mark Kuyper (Mark_K) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Jon,
Not sure about BVP, but I'd put a 1 or 2 EVP price tag on it per box of warp affected.

By Kevin M. McCollum (Sfbl5r) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 07:15 pm: Edit

Much better.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:54 pm: Edit

It's very limited know.

To get what? 2 ECM for a CA, Pay upto 15 points of power to opperate it, move no faster then 16 and you have to use passive fire control.


I'ld say lass than 1 BPV would be the cost of this stuff.

It'll basically be used stategically until you get to the battle and then BOOM you jump up to normal.


HMMMmmmmmmmmmmm...
Starcastling with Passive Fire Control...are you sure the Gorns or Romulans didn't invent this stuff.

By Mark Kuyper (Mark_K) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:58 pm: Edit

MJC,
CA (SC 3 ship) would get 3 ECM. If the CA is going 10 its paying an extra 5. If its going its max (20) its paying an extra 10.

An F5 would get 4 ECM from this stuff. Only a DN (or other SC 2 hull) would only get 2 ECM out of it.

By Jon Berry (Laz_Longsmith) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Battleships get 1 ECM. So, If this were to cost 1BVP per box upgraded, counting as part of the force total, but not as a commander's option?

--
Jon Berry