Loren: Just run an idea up the Flag pole and see if anyone salutes. Or shoot's it down, which is more likely here.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:08 am: Edit

I'm willing to bet that there has been at least one or two ideas posted on this board that have been accepted and will be made a part of the game at some point. I further bet that someone on the board hated said idea, and claimed it would either ruin the game or wasn't necessary. No one is going to post a new rule, idea, ship, or scenario that everyone likes, but that shouldn't mean they can't do it. The day that guidelines for posting ideas becomes approval from the masses is the day I quit posting, and playing altogether.

By Jonathan Perry (Jonathan_Perry) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 09:23 am: Edit

I'm all for new ideas. I would just prefer to see them come to light in some other quadrant or in the SSJ.

While I do have faith in the Steves, there is still a nagging fear that something substantial will find it's way into the system that was ill-considered and would cause the other races to howl about the unfairness of it all (and be right). I could point to ECM drones (very unbalancing, in my view), which lead to ECM plasma and the ECM/ESG proposal. Some would say this evolution is a good thing. I would disagree, so perhaps this is simply a difference of opinion.

Perhaps I am only recalling this from some fevered dream, but many years ago I remember reading somewhere (just as Doomsday came out?) a line from ADB (discussing Updates 1,2,3) that went something like "In the prior edition, we kept adding things because we thought that was what the players wanted. Boy were we wrong!"

Was this never said? Or did I misinterpret it?

My apologies, Stephen, for having taken up your thread with this.

By Stephen W. Fairfield (Sfairfield) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 09:48 am: Edit

No problem Jonathon. This is a forum for people's opinions.

By Kevin M. McCollum (Sfbl5r) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:01 am: Edit

Yes, there are more than enough changes. I was appalled (spelling) when the HDW came out. Size four ships with war cruiser movement cost, cruiser firepower and freaking OPTION MOUNTS! Please.

Games do evolve, hit a certain point, then start to actually devolve (Battletech, Rolemaster, AD&D, the list goes on). Some less-than-well-thought changes are to drive sales because many people will keep buying. Heck, I wouldn't have bought module R6 except for the one or two non HDW ships in it.

And don't start yelling about "games that don't evolve die", that is not true (Monopoly, Scrabble, Aggravation, etc). the only difference is, ADB is built on one game and must keep generating new material to put out simply because the current players are not generating many new players.

Another point, I have played a few people in this area and the fact is, most players don't kniow the EXISTING rules! Why add more needlessly?

On that note, if you are in the Portland, OR area and want a game, feel free to contact me at my email: cabletzr1@aol.com

If you email me, I will give you my address and phone number to set up a game.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:08 am: Edit

Kevin,

All true, but the point is that a great many of the rules in the game are optional, or "advanced" rules. Even something as elementary as overloaded photons or disruptors is an advanced rule, at least in the edition I currently have. You don't have to use any rules you don't want to; there are a plethura of current rules I just ignore. So adding more affects me not at all; I just don't use it if I don't like it. For example, I don't use ECM drones, super computers, or non violent combat. I don't like those rules, but I have no objection to them being in the game.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Boy Mike, You hit it right on the head. I see it this way. There is Tournament rules and then a bunch more you can add. Enhanced Photons or scatter Pods will likely never be a tournament rule. Those rules are well set. After that, these rules are so well designed as to allow you to, for the most part, just use what you like. Frankly there is only one rule I don't use because the challange of SFB is in knowing the rules and their implications. The rule I don't use is Electonic Warfare. I, and others I play against, find them too cumbersome. We have a very well playtested new set of EW rules(actualy their about 16 years old) that greatly simplifies EW and keeps the flavor of EW in the game. It is mostly the creation of a friend but we will be posting it some day.

This discussion board topic "New Rules" is just the right place to put these ideas. If you don't want any new rules then complain about the over all topic of New Rules. Better yet, just don't read it.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Kenneth: Bad ideas should be shot down. Through good debate and hard facts. People who say this is dumb or redicules the post with out facts, just tip their hand anyway.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 03:35 pm: Edit

I think that there is a large contingent of us that dont want to see Alpha pre-X tech tinkered with anymore (but for early years). Most of these proposals of late belong in the Xtech era, if at all.

By Jonathan Perry (Jonathan_Perry) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 05:23 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

If you don't want any new rules then complain about the over all topic of New Rules. Better yet, just don't read it

---

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Saturday, May 18, 2002 - 12:27 am: Edit

Scatter and Weasel pods are long overdue. I'll second and third the need for them, as they've been weighing on my mind for several years now.

Sacrificing a shuttle just seems nonsensical when some bright engineering team could come up with a cheap alternative.

Kudos Stephen. You got my vote on this.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 04:59 pm: Edit

No more thoughts on this proposal? I think Stephen's is pretty good as proposed. Along that thought I don't understand some of the opposition to it. Specifically how does this unbalance the game?

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Wait until J2.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 05:13 pm: Edit

For what?

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 05:16 pm: Edit

To take care of this thread, sort of.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 12:28 am: Edit

I honestly don't understand what you mean. You mean wait until J2 is released so we can discuss this?

Anyway, to the topic at hand. It's been years that I've always wondered why a captain would sacrifice an exepnsive piece of equipment to repeatidly save his ship; i.e. returning to combat with a fresh load of shuttles only to sacrifice them to the drone/plasma gods.

I think higher authority would also pressure contractors to come up with a cheap alternative. It doesn't take a genius to realize that burning shuttles is less than practical, particularly when a dedicated device can be conjurred for the same purpose.

By Piotr Orbis Proszynski (Orbis) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 12:42 am: Edit

What people are intimating is that J2 will have the multi-role-specific drogues, which pretty much covers this. I think.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 01:57 pm: Edit

I've read and posted on the J2 thread, and haven't found that.

Even if drogues assumed a kind of scatterpack and WW role, that still doesn't address the issue of a cheap dedicated device stored onboard a ship for the same purpose, as drogues, from what I recall, are strapped on the outside of the ship. Devices that'd be cheaper than a shuttle, and possibly smaller and easier to use, and stored internally, are long overdue and warranted.

I'm also becoming increasingly concerned over the "let's stop discussing this and wait..." mindset. Snook's statement is the fourth such that I've read on other topics from people who think cesation of a discussion is a prudent thing. Christ almighty, perhaps we should just wipe the boards clean of all discussions? Tell you what, let's shut down all the photon, phaser, new ship classes, and ever other topic down. Would that make you all feel better?

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:06 pm: Edit

Calm down, George. All I meant was that J2 DOES take care of new ways of getting more drones out and a better weasel in exchange for shuttles. I didn't say not to talk about it, just that see what J2 has to offer. I think that not many people have been posting ideas on new weasels and scatterpacks becasue they are waiting until J2 comes out.
Don't get unpset everytime no one posts on a new idea and don't get upset everytime someone says "wait to see..." because the rules are in playtest, which means that they are written up and are being made sure they work.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Snook, you're misreading it (like Piotr on the military thread). I'm so much upset at you as I am with reading another "let's wait..." statement. You're not the only one to have said this, which is why I'm upset about the trend.

Drogues; I could live without them, but don't have any great need nor love for them. I'd prefer space three and above drones be a planetary thing only. But that's just my opinion.

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:20 pm: Edit

Drogues can also be used for drone launch or as a wild weasel, just to mention a couple of their missions.

By Kevin M. McCollum (Sfbl5r) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 03:36 pm: Edit

Yeah, I would like to shut down a lot of these discussions. Most of the proposals are downright moronic. Many of them are from people who don't even have a thorough knowledge of the existing rules.

Kevin M. McCollum

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 06:00 pm: Edit

I'd comment but I'm not allowed to.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 02:30 am: Edit

Kevin M. McCollum (Sfbl5r); then don't read or post on the topics that annoy you. I'm not sure what else to say.

Drogues; well, fine. But that still doesn't discount the possibility of some cheaper device that can act as a scatterpack or WW. AND, it wouldn't have to be strapped onto the outside of the ship.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 03:17 am: Edit

An admin shuttle costs 2 points. A fast type I drone costs 2 points. How much cheaper do you want?