Do any of you see anything uneven about the following fight:

Vudar DWX vs Jindarian DDX
Fixed 42 X 45 map.
Weapon Status 3

By James Hallmark (Jhallmark) on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Now that we have played (using a 60 x 84 map) my only comment is that the Jindarian DDX has an extremely good power curve. But I think the fight may be fair.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Hi there.


Have any of you tried to take Jindarian ships, either asteroid-based or metal-hull, against any of the Magellanic empires?

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, November 16, 2015 - 09:51 pm: Edit

I have looked all over for Jindarian tactics. The most i found is for the Jindarian rock ships to sit and spin.

This is not I believe the best tactic. The Jindarian rock ships should RETROGRADE. Your rear fire power is as good as your forward. As well as Your Armour.

Move toward the enemy ships at a oblique at your best speed. Fire the forward rail gun turn off. Range 15 are 20 is good. If you can reach range 10 but stay out of overload range that would be fantastic. Fire the rear rail gun either in defensive mode to kill chasing seekers are against targets of opportunity. The third rail gun should be saved for the following turn as reloading rail guns and keeping up speed may be a problem. Loading them as MRG's may be advisable to save power. Then swing back and forth as in any retrograde.

Your fighters if you have any should be used in suicide attacks (unless you have packs). To damage ships trying to close. (remote controlled fighters)

Hopefully the enemy ships will brake off and leave you be after taking long range railgun fire. As that is really all you want any way.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 12:58 am: Edit

Given that Jindo rock ships are low on power (especially warp power), moving is rarely your preferred option.

Since your armor is the same all around, and your weapons cover all arcs, the best tactic is to use warp/sub tacs (starcastling).

Jindo roid ships are almost always in asteroid belts/fields. This gives you pretty good drone/plasma defense.

If caught in the open....well, that's about the only reason you would have to try and move a roid ship.

And if you think this makes JIndo rock tactics pretty predictable and boring..welcome to the club.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 08:03 pm: Edit

That is why i thought about the above. It does really work as well.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Thursday, November 24, 2016 - 06:59 pm: Edit

Can the Jindo be effective for the cost if it doesn't sit-n-spin?

Can the Jindo do sit-n-spin (and survive) if it only gets a single TAC per turn?

Just trying to get my head around an empire I have never bothered with before.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, November 24, 2016 - 08:54 pm: Edit

The best tactic I have found with Jindo is Retrograde. Very easy to turn and fire the forward rail guns to each side.

Sit and spin with only one TAC very very bad.

The Metal hull ships are very different then the Asteroid ships. kinda like the frax but with worse heavy weapons arcs but 360 phasers.

Attrition units for the Asteroid ships are a must. Using the prospecting shuttles as defense platforms are not good as the economic BPV in victory points hurts you. (Note i blew up a Fed CAD with 12 Met-1 fighters 4lrg and 14 phaser1 from DD/DW and a FF at range 5).

What I try and do is get the fighter/bombers in front the Asteroid ship 4 to 5 behind them. Close at best speed. The WRG from the Asteroid ships do good damg at range and if they try to close the fighters/bombers eat them up. Have trouble with Romulans with this but still learning. Still need practice with using the Rail guns in defensive mode. Have killed my own attrition units that way.

Hope this he,lps I am enjoying playing them in the campaign I am playing in.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Thursday, November 24, 2016 - 11:50 pm: Edit

A little.

Can they fight on the run? If they move, like they were apparently intended to, can they function?

I am primarily concerned with the rock ships without fighters, bombers, or PFs. Just rock ships and metal ships. But I figure metal ships are conventional enough to not worry about. It is just what the rock ships can do. (Or not do.)

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Friday, November 25, 2016 - 12:22 am: Edit

I find that the asteroid CA can load Rail guns and move. The CL needs to down load it,s WRG as MRG to give it more speed. The fact that the rail gun needs warp power to arm slows down the asteroid ships by more then 50% while rearming. That has been the biggest problem I have found.

Down loading The WRG to a MRG are LRG saves power and with the LRG can fire every turn. This can increase speed a lot. Also firing some but not all rail guns in a turn can help with the power/speed.

I like to run in fire the Rf-L are LF-L rail gun. Turn across and fire the other keep turning away to bring the RA to arc. This can be used in defensive mode to take out seekers are to have the other ship turn away to keep the damaged are down shield caused by the earlier fire out of arc. At weapon status 3 are after loading when holding rail guns this is very possible. The reload time on the next turn is the problem to keep speed up.

There are other things as well. Fire one forward rail gun in defensive mode as you slip out to kill seekers leading his ship in then turn in and fire the other in offensive mode. keep turning and run broadside of his ship. On the reload turn arm the facing one as a LRG and the Other as a WRG and run around him.

The fact that a asteroid ship can run with shields down makes the use of Andromedan T-Bomb tactics very useful.

That is about it if you have others please share.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, November 25, 2016 - 11:06 am: Edit

Thank you!

If anyone has any input, I would like to hear it, too.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Playing the jindos for the 2nd time next Saturday (Jan 28). We opted to play SH174. 4 Rock Jindos (DN, CA, CA, CL) versus 6 Tholian (with 3 Web Casters), 6 Selts in an asteroid field.

The map is fixed, so retrograde really won't work. With Web Casters, star-castling won't either.

Staying hidden and coming out after the Tholians & Selts hurt each other (ships cannot disengage until crippled) is a plan. A boring one and may result in those forces teaming up to hunt us down.

Seems these ships do best to fly in a circle to get as many RGs to bear as possible, while keeping the range no closer than 10. Fighters will help to keep the range open, but lots of t-bombs out there with 12 ships! Not mention anchored web from the tholians.

Looks like its going to get bloody, especially if I can't convince the selts to shoot down the webs.

Any thoughts out there?

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Diplomacy!! The biggest problem is the CL slow when rearming WRG. As well as the DN think about down loading some WRG,s on those ships as MRG are even LRG to save warp power and give some speed. Do not run into cast web you will break down automatically. You have 28 MET-3 fighters, that is 28 LRG and they have a second shot even. they can blow up a CA range 5 cripple at range 10. No scouts on either side. If using ECM buy two ECM pods for each fighter with CO,s. Asteroid belt speed 13 are 12 for the fighters is just fine. Also remember T-Bombs and buy extra Transporters, closing a gap with mines means asteroid damg are mine damg. You can lay mines with no worry about dropping shields all that Armour.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 04:34 pm: Edit

I been trying go figure out the best starting spot for diplomacy as I am guessing their inclination will be to join up due to my armor and fighters. At the moment, leaning towards "behind" the Selts.

I don't see anything in my Jindo rules for a MRG. I assume a cost of 2, but don't have a damage chart.

Since I will be travelling under 12 due to webs, thinking I'll have the power to arm WRGs for most turns.

Good point about the pods. We typically use EM and natural EW, that's it. Hmmm.. not sure what we do with built in EW of the fighters. I'll have to inquire. No reason for MRS if we don't have EW.

I did catch the idea of extra Transporters since I can drop shields and the ATF to save some power.

A bit worried about their t-bombs and my fighters as there is a lot of ships on there on a fixed map.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 04:54 pm: Edit

You may not have the HCS are LCS thye have the MRG. Mind You my SSD,s have the WRG MRG and LRG listed. Arming cost is 2+2 1 to hold and can be fired in defensive mode.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 08:55 am: Edit

Given that you are in an asteroid field you may want to reconsider buying ECM pods for the fighters. Asteroid fields already give you pretty hefty ECM bonuses, and combined with EM and small target modifiers you could use the points for other things (T-bombs, marines, deck crews, etc).

And given that Tholians and Selts have...history.....the players of those forces probably won't be inclined to trust each other.

Use this.

>

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Mike Strain:

Foregoing EW pods because of the asteroids might work for fighters with long range weapons, but for direct-fire fighters you might want those pods, because you are going to have to close inside the "small target modifier range" to make effective use of your fighters' direct-fire weapons. The pods also give opportunity to force the enemy ships to divert power to ECCM (if they are trying to shoot the fighters down) or ECM (if they are just trying to reduce the damage the fighters' weapons will inflict.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Well I buy the ECM pods not so much for ECM but for the ECCM. You really need to make there shots count. i have found that players seem to jack up on the ECM vs direct fire ships. Now both of them being direct fire races It may not be as bad as they will not want ECM vs them. The PC has a bad to hit ratio So even a +1 shift can be real helpful.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - 11:26 pm: Edit

When we play with full EW, I buy EW pods for my fighters. They either need it to get in close or to guide their own drones in.

Currently, we are testing out a new EW policy of only natural and EM, unless special sensors are present. We'll discuss on Saturday what to do with the built-in EW of the fighters.

Realized today the WRG actually uses warp power to arm. Poor CL with only 12 warp boxes and 3 WRGs.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - 11:56 pm: Edit

Steven Hecker:
(SH174)

Know that the Seltorians will be driven to kill the Tholians. Contact the Tholians a turn or two before the Jindarians chose not to be hidden, then join with the tholians? to defeat the Seltorians.

Tactics: It is always good if you can, to have a reserve. A Jindarian ship with some expendables (fighters, and bombers) in the asteroid field held in reserve.
Try to board the enemy to capture damaged/crippled ships, engage with hit and run marine raids. when close enough, tractor ships.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 05:13 pm: Edit

You are at Weapon status III. Can Hold the WRG for 1 point of any power. Yes The poor CL can not rearm it,s WRG and move. So down load them as LRG are MRG. The LRG is 1 warp power to arm and can fire the same turn. The MRG uses 2 + 2 warp power to arm. Just rearming as MRG gives you 3 more warp if reloading them all and a 1/2 move cost gives you 6 more hexes of movement.

I do like the IDEA of keeping one ship hidden..
As well as be ready to board crippled ships. I always buy the extra transporters in the option boxes as well as barracks. Then I can buy even more Boarding parties .

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Friday, January 27, 2017 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Wayne: There isn't anything in the victory conditions that would drive the Selts after the Thols. They get the same number of points shooting the Rocks as they do the Thols. We are all equal enemies. Though, the Selts and Thols have to go through each other to disengage.

I figure the Rocks came out of hiding because this a rare time the Rocks have a shot of hurting the Thols in an asteroid belt. Payback for ealier engagements? I'm more likely to side with the Selts till the 3 web casters are taken care of!

I also like the idea of a hidden reserve. Though, they know which ships I have, so leaving the DN "hidden" I don't think will work as they would circle up trying to find it. And if its not hidden, I want the CAs out also. A hidden CL would work. But have to be aware its speed is zero and only has 3 (5) transporters.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Friday, January 27, 2017 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Gregory: According to E18.22, can't hold WRG even at WS III. Unless there is some errata that changes that (I am using the initial Jindo Rules).

WRGs can also fire every turn. More errata changed that?? Not sure what you are referring to with HCS and LCS.

Given the huge difference in damage, I am more likely to arm 1 WRG than 3 LRG. Most likely 2 WRG as its rare to fire all three in a turn. 6 more movement is probably all I need since I don't want to hit any web at 12+.

Yep, Transporter and Barrack. Can only have 1 of each, so still need to decide on the rest.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Friday, January 27, 2017 - 04:22 pm: Edit

I have the updated rule book 2005. If You have the Master Rule book it will show the changes as well. WRG,s that fire every turn.. OH YES, sigh there was and is a change to every other turn.

The updated Rules say hold cost is 1 arming for a WRG is 3+3 hold 1.

The HCS and LCS are in the fast warship Module R6

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Friday, January 27, 2017 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Do you know when this was changed?? I am annoyed with myself for missing it.

I do see a new Jindo rule Book from 2005 for purchase.

I wonder if SH174 was changed also (More ships, less ships, etc.)

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Friday, January 27, 2017 - 06:36 pm: Edit

The scenario i do not think has changed. DN CA CA and CL. I know that the E-Master rule book has all the Jindo Rules.

I have the 2005 issue. I had heard that the rail gun rules had been changed from the original. Never saw them so not sure what had been changed.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Monday, January 30, 2017 - 09:22 pm: Edit

Well, we played last Saturday (1/28), using the old Jindo rules since that's what we have.

Since we don't play with these three races very often, lots of rules were looked up. We only managed to get in 2 turns before we called it a night, after 5+ hours of play.

Reviewed the situation and game was conceded to the Jindos. Wish it was due to my awesome maneuverings of my rock ships, but basically, I was the last to enter the fray.

Turn 1, I stayed hidden, thinking they'd both move a little and end up right in front of me. Nope.

To their credit, they played turn 1 as if they didn't know I was there, and went after each other. Tholians threw up two webs, and only moved 4 to be right behind one. Selts, moving 11 shot one down and closed the gap, eating 30 P1s, only 12 internals due to 20+ reinforcement.

Turn 2, I came out and followed the Selts from about 10 hexes back as they crashed the web. Tholians lost their NCA, Selts lost both CLs. They talked about teaming up to take me on, which is very logical, so I shot up a Selt DD and FF.

Next turn, I'd crash the web with 18-22 fighters, then the DN and both CAs....

Note to future Jindo players: do NOT reveal yourself while still in an asteroid hex and within range of a web caster. A 1-hex web of strength 35+ will trap you for 14+ turns!! (Luckily, his web blocked the shot.)

While we enjoyed the scenario and will keep it in the mix for the future, figure to try the smaller version (10 ships instead of 16) next time.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 07:29 pm: Edit

I wish i could use one turn firing WRG.s. I do wonder if the damg chart has changed any. The one on SFBOL is correct can any one tell me if the damg changed are not?

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, February 01, 2017 - 06:03 pm: Edit

IIRC the damage charts didn't change, just the firing rate (2 turns arming as opposed to every turn).