Now with the introduction of Y2 for the Early Years Module (and me breaking down to buy Y1...)

How do you create a scenario with Y-Romulans attacking a planet?

Presumably they move in via NTW, when they get close to the target they turn on the Mask/Veil.

Then the scenario starts when normal sensors detect them under the Mask/Veil.

So that's range 12 right? (5+12*2=29) Normal range for detecting a ship under cloak per the Tactical Intelligence rules, right?

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Doesn't sound likely, as the same would have to apply to any other time period, and it clearly doesn't. Id have thought that as an uncloaked ship is detected at Strategic Level 1 (or is it 5?) which is x0000 hexes, a cloaked ship would be detected at 5x000-5 hexes.

But to make the game playable and avoid many turns of the Rom inching towards the target at speed 1, pick a suitable value in the 10-30 range, depending on the range of weapons.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Or, you could use my Special Scenario Rules from Beer Run (see New Scenario Topic).

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 06:51 pm: Edit

With Y2 out, here's a thought problem.

Y75

Fixed map, small gas giant in 2215.

Klingon C3, 4xD3, 6xF3 enter 01xx map edge, speed any, WS-3.

Terran WDN, 2xWCA, Alpha-Cent 2xWAL, Rigellian 2xYRD, Andorian 2xYND, Vulcan 2xWVF enter 42xx map edge, speed any, WS-3.

Victory Con: Standard.

Length of Scenario: 15 turns.

Special rules: CO in use.
Units may only disengage by exiting the map edge that they entered. No sub-light, no accel.

Variations: Replace Klinks with Kzinti force of WDN, 4xWCA, 6xWDD.

Tactics:

Discuss.

Variant A- Replace the Fed fleet with the alternate Kzinti fleet. What changes?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 10:19 pm: Edit

Speaking of Y2 - what do people make of the pre-ISC Five Race ships (compared to each other, and to, say, the W-era ships in Paravian or Gorn space) and of the Y-era Inter-Stellar Concordium fleet?


Given the way the history is laid out, it seems that trying to use the racial ships with the later Navy, the way one might use racial National Guard ships with the saucer-and-nacelle Star Fleet designs in Federation space, would not be all that accurate historically. However, would it be worth trying conjecturally, or are the warp-driven hulls just too incompatible with the later two-prong fleet?

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 04:14 pm: Edit

Just from the way the weapons work, I'd say the plasma-V ships MIGHT be able to work with the ISC Y-fleet....but I doubt it.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 03:15 pm: Edit

I guess - though I suppose it's handy that the Y-era Navy can bolt its torps right away.


However, does the Y-era Navy stack up well compared to other Alpha Octant Y-fleets - and how are the Five Race W-ships compared to others of their tech level?

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Here's a thought...

It's generally considered that the W-Andorian ships suck on ice.

But compare the Andorian WCA (YNC) to the Kzinti WCA and it doesn't look so bad.

So....anybody fight the YNC vs the Kzin WCA?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 10:09 am: Edit

Historically, the Holdfast showed up with a number of smaller hulls - but ones which still provided all kinds of grief to the Klingons of the Early Years.

However, what kind of challenges might Y-era ships have faced had the Holdfast brought, say, an OGD with them?

(As a conjectural equivalent of how the Aurorans ended up with a very useful Orion ship when they were planted in the Omega Octant.)

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 09:44 pm: Edit

What is an 'OGD'?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 10:25 pm: Edit

"Old Galaxy Destroyer" The little brother of the OGR.

But the chances of the Tholians bring an OGD with them was probably 0% at best.

A much more likely scenario would have been for them to have an NCL.

By Terry "Full Stop" O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Yes, unless an OGD or OGR had been captured and was at the Sphere when the Revolt went off, and the Tholians chose not to completely scrap it for raw materials on the way here, you wouldn't have any in this galaxy. The Aurorans got the Throne of Ozymondias because it was accidentally sucked into Omega along with the rest of the system. I'd imagine that M81 pirates would have taken advantage of the chaos caused by the civil war, not fled the galaxy.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 10:52 am: Edit

So, what are people making of the new Y-era simulator ships in CL42 and CL42S?


Personally, I think it might be interesting to see an ISC YCA or YCC try its luck against a Barbarian YCA fitted with a plasma vortex launcher in its prow option mounts (and treat the latter as a pseudo-Baduvai).

By Mike Dowd (Duellist_69) on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 02:51 pm: Edit

I seem to recall (books not available to confirm) that the Tholians *did* have a few NFFs and NDDs that were lost when they took out the massed Klingon fleet that was going to be used in an invasion of the Roms at the 3 colony worlds.

Or did someone make me smoke crack as I slept?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 10:56 pm: Edit

They had two NDDs and four NFFs, according to Y1; they were armed with particle cannons. (Once the last ship was lost, they set about "acquiring" disruptor tech; according to Y3, their attempts to access the PC files in the databanks didn't go overly well.)

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 06:54 pm: Edit

EY battle report.

Me (Fed YCL) vs Bill (Gorn YCL).

Bill had played a few games of FedCom, this was his first SFB game. And my first SFB game in over 5 years. Rust was thick, and measured in meters..;)

Used the most basic of basic rules. Explained Emer Decel, Wild Weasals, Phaser Capacitors, Plasma, and the EA process, mainly by helping him thru it on turn 1.

Turn 1: Fed (me) went speed 16, holding torps and weasals. Gorn (Bill) went speed 12, having spent some power on general reinforcement.

Tactics were minimal; we basically charged each other. I expected him to launch plasma and start The Ballet, to my surprise he bolted one G-torp at range 9 (missed!) and kept closing. End of the turn we were at range 3 and exchanged alpha strikes (plus he launched his other torp). Net result, his number one shield was down (with 8 internals, including a torp hit) and my front shield was around 50% strength.

Turn 2, I went speed 4 and reloaded my guns. Bill went speed 8 and basically did likewise. Launched WW at start of turn, took some collateral damage on my #5 shield (explained WW and collateral damage rules to him), and in the ensuing knife fight phasered his #3 shield to death and got a few internals. His return fire mangled my #3 shield as well.

We called it at this point, since it was getting a bit late and Bill didn't think he could turn the battle around with only one torp launcher left and 2 down shields.

Overall, he liked the game, saying it requires more of a plan than in FedCom, which is apparently more run&gun than SFB.

Next fight I'm hoping to let him play a Fed YCL while I fly an Andorian or Alpha-Cent WCA. Should be fun.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, January 06, 2011 - 06:09 pm: Edit

If you wanted to see the comparison for yourself, you guys could consider picking the SFB versions of two ships from the FC Early Years MSC*, then later trying out the Squadron Scale Ship Cards for those units in the other game system.

*The MSC is missing the Neo-Tholian NDD and NFF, though Ship Cards for both are available.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 06:22 pm: Edit

For those who have on-table (or online) experience with the ships from the three published Early Years modules, I was wondering; which generation of ships do you find to offer a more interesting tacctical challenge, the W- or Y-era ships?

On the one hand, the Y-fleets have faster ships with more power to play around with; on the other, the range of distinct ships types (once you factor in the Fed and ISC planetary fleets) is that much wider.

For that matter, what kind of challenges have you found when trying to fly the early Holdfast Tholians in this era, as opposed to the kind of tactics that Tholians in later (or, indeed, earlier) eras have to take into account?

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 09:33 pm: Edit

What?

Tholians are fracking X-ships in EY. A Tholian PC can fight a YCA to a standstill, as long as it avoids getting tractored (and boarded...)

Like Andromedans in later era's, the Tholians shine in duels and squadron fights...major fleet battles they get roasted due to lack of heavy weapons.

All this is moot, however, if you are a Tholian Base Station behind a web. With P-4's, EW, and POL's/PC's, trying to attack a Tholian base in EY is tantamount to suicide unless you have at least double his BPV in ships.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 10:58 pm: Edit

Depends on the module. Some of the W-era ships can be a bit 'samey', but generally I'm finding them the most interesting.

I guess what I like most about the EY period is that, even by the time you are getting up to the very-nearly-GW-like Y-ship, they still act very, very differently.

Not so much in power curve, but in use. For example, the Fed YCA vs Fed CA. It only loses 6 warp and 2 impulse (8 less power) - given that it also loses 2 photons (4 total power to arm) and the max EW environment to deal with is 6 instead of 4 (2 power difference), that amounts to a pretty small apparent net difference of only 2 power 'available' between them.

But that small change belies a much sharper contrast. Without overloads, the heavy weapon management changes. There is no 'magic' range 8 that crossing the line of suddenly makes your ship fearsome. Indeed, as you only have two chances to 'hit' with your heavy weapons, and they have a fairly small charge to begin with, you find yourself pushing for closer ranges (that, and the YCA phasers are about as effective at range 2 as the CA phasers are at range *5*)...and having just that little bit less power to do it with.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 01:20 am: Edit

In the case of the Tholians, one thing I wondered was how well the NDDs and NFFs work as squadron or fleet flagships in this era.

Do they get to make the most of their particle cannons? What about the NDD's web casters?


For the Y-cruisers, that is a fair point about how much of a change the Fed YCA demands; but is the shift more, or less, striking depending on which side of the Alpha Octant you go?

For example, the Lyran YCA might have weaker ESGs, but are they still proportionally effective against the enemies of that time?

Then there's the ISC YCA; can the two Plasma-Gs on it be as relatively effective as the trio of Pl-Gs are on a pre-Y170 CAT?


(Speaking of plasma, the sheer variety between the different W-era fleets in terms of their direct-fire and/or seeking weapon options is interesting to see; both in its own right, and in how they show very different ways to end up with the plasma-Fs and -Gs of the modern era.)

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 12:35 pm: Edit

For the Tholians, their primary weapon is the phaser. The web casters on the NDDs are very important, but I imagine the particle cannons are pretty much window dressing. It is nice when you get a decent shot off, but you are really focused on the phasers.

I would imagine their goal is to maximize range 5 without getting to range 3. Then, backing off to range 8 if things are too hairy. Any web caster would be critical in a larger battle, as it would allow for the segmentation of the Klingon fire so they couldn't mass disruptor fire nearly as much. I would imagine their tactical doctrine of the time would be built around those ideas.

For the YCAs, the biggest difference between them and their Middle Years counterparts is that their maximum heavy weapon output has been reduced to a quarter. That means it takes longer to kill things, even with the reduced power and shield levels.

I also doubt anything is "proportional". It is just different with a different dynamic.

By Robert Gamble (Robertgamble) on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 12:28 pm: Edit

So, my local gaming group will be doing a Campaign starting in the Early Years (Y115) but relatively quickly getting to the 'Middle Years' ships.

Played a test game yesterday, Hydrans vs Federation, and it was a blast.. But it makes me wonder how many empire mismatches there will be.

For example, Gorn vs Hydran seems pretty problematic for the Hydrans. Plasma Ballet, always hold one torp in case the Hydrans try to get close and personal.. which the Hydrans have to do to have a chance.. Of course this will be the case no matter what era.. Gorns seem to have real problems against Kzintis in the General War era.

It will be fun to relearn the game with a new era.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 01:48 pm: Edit

Oookay.

I was about to say, over in a proposal thread, that the only situation I could think of where prospecting charges were worth having was in web combat, where short ranges and slowed opponents are available.

So, of course, my brain stopped me and screamed, "Pre-Smarba Romulans!"

And now I know what all those Gladiator-Ls really were for -- fending off deadly swarms of Gorn PROS-Y fighters. Imagine the horror of a Romulan captaining a Warbird in Y70 when he sees up ahead an Early Years version of a "prospecting freighter" carrying a squadron of five of those swift (speed 4!), deadly ship-killers.

Oh, sure, (YR1.F6) will tell you they "cannot be assigned to any unit not engaged in asteroid mining." A likely story. Let me guess, Romulus is just a big asteroid to be mined? Pretend you're civilians all you want; the Gorn economy is clearly a well-oiled military machine.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 05:00 pm: Edit

The Romulans have two defenses against the swarm of range 1 shuttles: the veritable forest of lasers that generally have nothing to shoot at and the small explosive mine laid out the hatch. The Gorn shuttles will have to avoid hexes the Romulans were in previously. If the Romulans back away from the Gorn shuttles, the shuttles would have to spend several turns going around the Romulans to get at a facing without mines. Shuttles go bye bye.

Additionally, the Romulans have lots of time to prepare to accelerate to speed 1 and drop the effectiveness of Prospecting Charges in half. There are some interactions that I haven't studied that might require adjustments to my standard sublight Romulan tactics.

I expect that the Gorns would lose economically sacrificing more expensive prospecting shuttles.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Friday, October 02, 2015 - 02:22 am: Edit

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 02:24 am: Edit

The reason (to continue a 2 year-old conversation) that Y-shuttles had their phasers removed was exactly due to the fact that Gorns tend to carry many, many shuttles.

And during the playtest we discovered that a Gorn squadron could simply launch them all and send them in to (slowly) butcher sublight Romulans. Even with cloak (which later became the Mask/Veil).

While Y-era prospecting shuttles could theoretically be used by the Gorns to attack something stationary (or sublight), it would be like using oil tankers as floating bombs...sure, they work great...once....but then who is going to carry the oil?