One idea that may work, considering the propensity of card players out there, is teach them Star Fleet Battle Force. It is easy graphically appealing and quick. It may not lead to new sfb players everytime but there will be those who like it and want more...

By Piotr Orbis Proszynski (Orbis) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 06:25 pm: Edit

USS Pony. Get them while they're young.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 06:30 pm: Edit

DK; the whole point is to make the game more attractive to play. Think about six pads of SSDs for six different cruisers. Now think about expansions; new classes, fighters, and all other things SFB. It gets to be kind of unwieldly.

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 06:53 pm: Edit

It's easier to photocopy your own SSD's or use plastic with a grease or wet erase pen. That's how I learned the game. Recently, I've just photocopied about a hundred EA forms and use pencil on them, while a couple guys in my group have resorted to using Excel spreadsheets to keep track of their EA. I'm fixing one up right now, as well as one for the Andro, which is a major pain in the arse! I've even got a working spreadsheet that integrates EA, mid-turn speed changes and the SSD, but only for one ship at the moment.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 08:27 pm: Edit

Maybe ADB should seek the advice of the Cigarett companys. Its flerting with the Devil, I know, but it might help. and

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:31 pm: Edit

What, impregnate the rulebook with addictive narcotics?

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 03:34 am: Edit

I think SFB Light should be upwards compatible with the current version, as other people have mentioned. That's just my opinion though.

Suddenly I'm getting visions of coming home from work to see the wife and kids playing "The Surprise Reversed!"

HEY! It could happen!

By Davyd Atwood (Blackelf) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 04:29 pm: Edit

"Maybe ADB should seek the advice of the Cigarett companys. Its flerting [sic] with the Devil, I know, but it might help."

Yeah, but then they'd have to do seperate box covers for Canada with half the front taken up by a warning about how bad for your health this product is.

Y'know... that might actually sell more...

By Piotr Orbis Proszynski (Orbis) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Hmmm... pictures of fingers super-glued together, papercuts and red-rimmed, crazed eyes?

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:29 pm: Edit

All they would need for the warning label.
Before & After shots of the winner of the Gold Hat.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:49 am: Edit

Ya, the BEFORE his/her eyes half shut. The AFTER with only one eye half shut the other a little more open. (and a slight drunken like smile at the corner of the mouth)

Caption: Ahhh Haayyy. I won?.

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 08:35 pm: Edit

How about making it a little easier to use like putting the rules all on a CD with a neat search feature or tutorials?
If not the rules, at least an SSD's CD collection for easy printing?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 09:24 pm: Edit

SVC and the gang have already ruled on that. It is too easy to pass around so thats a no go. That subject is covered in an old Captains Log, I think.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Basically, we'd do the disk, put it on the cart, wait until we had 500 orders for the $50 item, ship the disks, dump the entire warehouse into the dumpster, and close the company. With the SSDs in that form, we wouldn't ever sell another paper product from the two hundred thousand dollar inventory in the warehouse.

SSDs on disk = no further new products ever. And no more customer support, either. No conventions, no tournaments, no web site, no BBS, no rules questions, no nothing.

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:43 pm: Edit

Thanks Loren, I remember that discussion now... I've asked this question before.

What I really mean isn't a full blown replacement for the game or the SSD book, more like a supplementary piece to help out, like the help function on a computer. But even that would run the risk of coming fairly close to replacing the rulesbook if it was done on disk. So that was pretty much ruled out by fears of pirating back then.

Ok... let me clarify that a bit then.

It need not be all the SSD's on one CD, convenient, and conveniently reproducable, though that may be. What I meant was including in each product the SSD's in it on CD (or an old 3.5 floppy Disk) so they could just be printed out instead of scanned and reprinted or photocopied. To me it'd be worth a few bucks extra for something like that. Maybe not for everyone, but who knows?

I wouldn't want to see the business go under but it would be really convenient to just pop a disk in and print out three FF's(or whatever) if you need/want them versus going somewhere and paying to use a photocopier...

Nothing really replaces a good rulesbook (especially when there's no computer around to use CD's, but... where would that be nowadays?)A tutorial system on CD or game aids on CD might make it smoother for new players. Not something that would replace the rulesbook but rather a supplement or piece that could go out with something like the cadets manual?

Granted it would boost the price if tossed into the basic set... but it'd be worth it, even as a supplementary aid(or totally seperate product), for helping get started.

Hope this clarifies what I was getting at on previous post.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Douglass: And that would mean somebody would put them on internet and we'd go out of business the next day.

Next idea?

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:03 am: Edit

I wonder how much Agents of Gaming was hurt by publishing their entire "SSD catalog" on CD-ROM a few years back?

Might be interesting to see what their actual incidence of piracy versus revenue was...

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:04 am: Edit

At Kubla Con in Oakland I saw the new version of Car Wars. The guy manning the booth told me that the new supplements were for teaching people how to play a limited version of the classic game. A sort of crash course (if you'll forgive the pun) in the basic game. It seems like an interesting avenue, but I just wonder how it's selling.

The impression I got from this new version of Car Wars was that it was an entirely new derrivative and take on the original classic game. It turns out that's only partially true. If you guys (SVC and SPP) could come up with a dedicated supplement idea like the new Car Wars, but make sure people understood that it was meant only as an introductory thing, then you might have something with which to build a new player base of both sexes. Just make sure you get the word out of what the new game is supposed to be, because the New Car Wars has been sevrely misbilled.

Just musing here.

p.s. full color counters and mini map might be in order.

By Bill Beasley (Narfolin) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:46 am: Edit

I've been kicking around the idea of using the Early Years supplement, or parts therein, along with the Tholian PC+ and the basic ruleset for an introductory game to use in some upcoming exhibition games at the University this fall. I figure a Kling D4, Fed YCA and a Tholian PC+ should make for some interesting battles, and they're all recognizable enough from TOS to rope in the ST fans.

Any thoughts?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 01:26 am: Edit

Ken: Remember that AoG makes its money selling miniatures. They can afford to pass out SSDs as this just means more people buying miniatures.

George: We have this thing called Cadet Training Handbook, the one with the color map and full color counters....

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 01:43 am: Edit

SVC; yeah, but I think you need something more. I don't know what, though.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 10:38 am: Edit

Its been mentioned under titles like SFB Light. Basically the concept proposed would be to take the Basic set, balance the ships and streamline the rules. It could not later be integrated with full SFB but could be squished down to a 64 page rule book and a 64 page SSD book.

When thinking of the rule set think (A3.15) standard game without all the minor details (probes, crew, control systems, wing phaser arcs, tugs), without a few complicated major ones (web, fighters, EW) and perhaps a few simplified rules (cloak). Dump many of the scenarios and focus on duels and squadrons in a tourney style setting.

The SSDs are modified to be racially flavored but balanced within a class so the concept of refits, timeline and BPV goes away.

A self contained gaming system to teach the basics while offering much more depth than the cadets game.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 10:45 am: Edit

If we're going to have a game that isn't compatible with SFB, then might as well go whole hog and do STAR FLEET ACTION (totally different game system) and be done with it.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 10:55 am: Edit

Re: Electronic SSDs.

I would remind everyone that FASA did precisely this with Battletech; that is, they permitted electronic publication of all published mechs/vehicles. FASA, which survived for a long, long time prior to said electronic publication, is currently out of business.

On the flip side, various RPG companies have sold electronic versions of their sourcebooks. White Wolf Games has the Vampire the Masquerade CD with all of the core sourcebooks included. TSR did the same with 2nd Edition AD&D, and WoTC/Hasbro is doing likewise with 3rd Edition D&D in a few months. Neither of these companies saw a significant drop-off in sales of their printed books. However, these are RPGs; having the book handy for an RPG is far much more important than it is with a tabletop wargame.

I would love to have a CD with every Captain's Edition SSD on it (in fact, I have one, but only by spending hours in front of a computer and high-speed scanner -- and only for my own personal use). However, I do not want to have said CD and then see nothing further developed for SFB due to a drastic drop-off in sales when some yahoo posts the whole thing, kit and kaboodle, to some warez site.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:06 am: Edit

SVC: The game would be compatable; its the printed rules that couldn't be physically integrated since all rules not required to play the basic game would be removed. After SFBL is mastered the player would know how to play basic SFB and be ready for new challenges (BS+AM+...). Stepping up from SFBL to a tourney should be designed to be a particularly easy step.