Topic creation message.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:54 am: Edit

Sweet, well, lemme be the first post.

Suggestion for 'basic EAF'.
It's pretty important to know how to do EAFs - indeed, it's the core of SFB.

Unfortunately, they are a pain to teach! The Cadet Training Manual perhaps rightly postpones them to Scenario #4.

I think they could be taught in a glossed-over form several scenarios earlier. What the trainer needs to do is create several valid EAFs for the ships in question, and have the trainee select which one to use as the 'EAF' section of the turn.

IE., four valid cadet EAFs for a Federation CA could be:
Option 1
* Any speed up to 17 (or 9 for 16 a impulse turn or 4 for an 8 impulse turn)
* Arm photons
* Arm all phasers

Option 2
* Any speed up to 25/13/6
* No power to photons
* Arm all phasers

Option 3
* Any speed up to 23/12/6
* Arm photons
* No power to phasers

Option 4
* All power to engines (any speed up to 31/16/8)

The cadet doesn't need to know what is going on behind the scenes (yet), just has to look at the 4 configurations and pick one.

Obviously, power is wasted in several of those configurations, but at least a cadet is presented with something to do with the 'allocate energy' section of the turn for the first 3 scenarios other than just skipping it entirely.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:58 am: Edit

Color-code your SSDs

The SSD, while intimately familiar to all of us, can be a little confusing to a new player. ESPECIALLY if they haven't played strategy games before and were 'hooked' by SFB's tie-in to Star Trek.

It can help *immensely* to simply color-code the SSD boxes. Since the goal is to 'keep it simple', don't go crazy with it. Say, color the power boxes green and the weapons boxes yellow.

After only a few training sessions, it should become pretty second nature to identify the weapons and power systems without such a key, so it probably only makes sense to do this with the provided training SSDs in the 'Cadet Training Handbook', but it DOES make it simpler to see what the capabilities of a ship are to a new player.

By Ryan Peck (Trex) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 05:50 am: Edit

You might even go so far as to color impulse red, warp blue, apr yellow, and then highlight the lines on the EA form to match.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 06:26 am: Edit

Incorporate the combo SSD-EAF found here

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:41 am: Edit

Start by playing EY games. It's easier, the ships tend to be smaller, and alot of the later advanced rules don't apply.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:53 am: Edit

I am almost done updating all the inofficial (and some official(done unofficially of course)
cadet ships (but they are not on the webpage yet). But I'd like to have some input on shield strength. It varies much between ships.
Take a look at the ships allready on Andys webpage and give me your two cents.

Please e-mail your opinions to me at
callemangan@rocketmail.com

By Alexander Pitman (Dassadec) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:00 pm: Edit

My group has found that it is easy-est to start a new player on Federation ships for their first few games. Then evolving into Klingons, then Gorns or Kyzinti, before we start teaching them wierd races like ISC, Lyrans. Andromedans are usually taught last, seeing as how they are different from all the other races andyou have to be very aware of what is on your EA form.

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:10 pm: Edit

We do the same thing Alex. Not to mention that the Federation is the race they are most familiar with and you can give them the most analogies to the TV shows so they can understand what is going on.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:33 pm: Edit

Agreed. We always started with Fed/Klingon, and then worked in the others. Last was always the Tholians and Andromedans.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

Start by playing EY games. It's easier, the ships tend to be smaller, and alot of the later advanced rules don't apply.

---

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:23 am: Edit

My article on this is at:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/rangers/training.htm

By Ryan Peck (Trex) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 06:52 am: Edit

I think a heavy war destroyer might be a good trainer as well. It has alot of weapons (which lets them roll more dice), and power to use them which lets the players do more every turn.

The counter arguement would be 'Yes but it is too much to handle' maybe save the HWDs for the second game.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 08:08 am: Edit

Personal preference here - but I would not start by using any of the wartime production hulls (CWs, DWs, BCs, CCHs, etc). I don't know how many times I've sat down with a relatively new player to play a pre-GW battle and heard "Oh, this ship just sucks. It doesn't have enough power." I think to myself "well no @#!^, its a pre-refit CA, what do you expect!" Then I realize that they have been doing nothing but battles with GW era ships. It is important to learn fairly early on to play with ships that don't have a surplus of power. Power management is a key principle in SFB, and giving a player a ship that can race around at speed 31 arming most of its weapons doesn't really require that.

I still prefer the good ol' Fed CA and Klingon D7. Recognizable, flexible, and fly-able with the existing Cadet Training Handbook or the Basic set. The are good enough ships to provide an enjoyable game, but not so good that any other ship they play in the future looks pedestrian by comparison.

Just my two cents.

By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:29 am: Edit

Nice article, Ken.

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Jeremy, first you want to get them hooked on the game, which is better acomplished by letting them be able to do just about anything they want as long as they are learning the rules of the system. Let them learn how to manage their small amouts of power after they've learned how to play the game and are commited to the sect, I mean group.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:38 pm: Edit

I disagree. Any time I've tried to introduce alot of the rules at once, new players were scared away by the immensity of the rule books and complexity of the systems. Starting simple, and then whipping out a rule when they ask "can't I do..." works just fine for me.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:41 pm: Edit

Robert. I have to agree with Jeremy here. IMO, you've got to start them early thinking about tough EA decisions. That is, IMO, more important to early player development than just learning the mechanics of movement and combat.

By Aaron Gimblet (Marcus) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Put me in for the 'low energy' group, here. Ive got a large number of beginning players (and myself) in a campaign that opens in Y165. I find it great fun to watch my players flip through SSD books, see a BCH or NCL, and respond with enthusiasm. By giving them the CA's as a baseline, theyve learned early hard lessons on flexible, necessary-and-sufficient style decision making.

And my fed player has fallen in love with his DD. "100 BPV. 4 Photons. I can forgive alot for that."

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 01:21 pm: Edit

I like to use the Hunter FF and the Klingon E4B with medium speed drones if I'm not teaching a large group of people.

After you've flown a Hunter/E4B duel a few times (which doesn't take long...) everything looks like an upgrade. It's also kind of fun, to scrape the bottom of the barrel like that...

(Large groups, I do the Fed and Klingon TC, simply because it lets us put fractional math further down the list of things to do.)

By Matthew J. Francois (Francois42) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Ken:

Now that I'm the Madison area, if you ever happen to do any more SFB demos, let me know! I'll me more than happy to help.

-Francois

By Marcus J. Giegerich (Marcusg) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Our goup uses tournament rules. The stripped down ruleset really helps. We use Feds and Klingons (or the WYN shark) first, then introduct the Gorn next. This exposes them to photons, disruptors, drones, and plasma, which are a decent representation of the available weapons. We let them win the first game or two, and don't go "all out" on them until they've gotten to a reasonable skill level. Even at that point, it's good to fix a game or two so that they win one from time to time so they don't get discouraged.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 02:04 pm: Edit

Matt:

I've sent you a couple of emails to your purdue address asking about your availability for getting together to do SFB and other games.

Am I sending it to the wrong address?

Please email me at ken_burnside@ameritech.net

By Gerhard Thamm (Gthamm) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 08:59 pm: Edit

Hello all I have looked at this message board for a while but haven't posted much bacause I'm a newbie to this game. I have been interested in the game for a while but I could never talk my friends into playing it with me due to the large rule book. Well I finally talk them into trying it out. I had only played the scenarios in the training manual so we sat down and I went through the bacis rules on movement turning and basic combat. We and by we I mean myself and four of my friends. We played out a scenario the was me and one of my friends with the klingon cadet ship and the other three with federation cadet ship. It was unfair but it got us playing. My ship took quite the pounding but I made if off the map so at least I robbed them of a kill. They loved it so much they wanted to learn a couple more rules and play another scenario. This time it was two Romulans vs two federation both cadet ships. This time my friend and myself were the Romulans and we destroyed one of the Fed ship and disengaged after being damaged by the second Fed ship. After we finished all of my friends wanted to play tomarrow so we are going to. They started talking about how they wanted to use more advanced rules and started talking about buy a fleet a miniatures to play that way. When I tell them about playing a campain the get so pumped up. It is amazing I have tried to get them to play so for so long now they want to play all the time. I have gone to not having anybody to play with to having a group 5. So if anyone that lives in the omaha NE area and wants to play we have a group of newbies but we are all anxious to learn.

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:20 pm: Edit

That's cool Gerhard. Fresh meat, I mean new players into the game are always welcome! Congrats on your successful endeavor! May you have many ship explosions in your future.

By Ryan Peck (Trex) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Gerhard,

Glad to have you aboard.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 12:39 am: Edit

Gerhard, welcome aboard, you and your friends may be in for a very bumpy ride as you break in several newly minted starships and return them in less then pristine condition...

The total rulebook is very large and will spread over several binders, purchase several (3-5) 3" or 5" D-ring binders now for the rules and 5-10 2" (D or O but D is better) binders for the SSDs (separate them by race or by product). IF you get the display binders, you get to display your art (or borrowed art) up front.

Don't forget to show this site to the others, who knows they may learn something and surprise you in the next showdown...hehehe...

By Gerhard Thamm (Gthamm) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 09:00 pm: Edit

Thanks for the kind word guys I'm glad to be a part of this great game. We just finished our second day of playing. (over 18 hours) And let me tell you that there will be alot of overtime at the ship yards. I didn't need to tell them about this website after we finished playing yesterday two of the guys went and found this site on their own. All I can say is the we all still have alot of enthusiasm in our group and there was even mention of making a road trip to ohio for origins this june. I look forward to going and meeting some of you if you'll be there. Has anyone been or is going this year. Let me know what to expect if anyone knows. Thanks again.

By Daniel Crispin (Calendyr) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:37 pm: Edit

Well I had the same dilema a few weeks ago. I read when people told me and decided to use tournament rules. I used the Fed and the Lyran tournament ships. No seeking weapons to handle, only hard part was to manage power for the Fed ship. Turned out well. I was referee and did not play. They both liked the game.

Was funny because whey they did stupid things I would tell them the consequences and explain that it might be a bad strategy. My friend playing Feds decided to go for 4 Proximity photons and all his phasers at range 22. I told him proximity was ok but firing phasers at that range was pretty much a waste of power and would handicap him in the next turn. He did not listen and did it anyway. He managed to do 22 points of damage, which is not too bad at that range! But did not penetrate the shield. Then the next turn came and he decided to plot a slow speed to reload everything... The Lyran blew up his ship in the second turn ;)

Well, gotta learn someway hehehe!

By Gerhard Thamm (Gthamm) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 10:52 am: Edit

That happened to one of my friends, for some reason he is really concerned about the 1/4 turn wait for phasers to recharge so he will fire them all off by impulse 24 so he has them at the begining of the next turn no matter how far away his opponet is. We were playing a game in which this friend was a FED heavy cruiser and I was a GORN heavy cruiser, our opponents two Kligon D7s. Well my friend didnt really understand that the klingons would be moving to so he shot his phasers at a range of 15 and did little damage all to sheilds on impulse 24. Well 7 impulses latter the were within one hex of each other and the klingon unloaded and took down his 6 sheild and scored 12 point of internal. The Fed had no phasers left and could do nothing. Although he had phasers for the next turn the klingon was already out of his fireing arc and he couldnt get him back into it for at least another 8 impulses. It was a bonehead move but I think he is starting to learn some tatics. We are all new to the game and have been focusing more on moving and shooting than trying to win.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 10:58 am: Edit

Gerhard,

The 8 impulse delay means impulse 25 is the impulse of decision. Not Impulse 24.

You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fire em, know when to cruise away and when to HET.

It all comes to a greater or lesser extent as you rack up experience. You might want to consider buying the Tactics Manual.

By Daniel Crispin (Calendyr) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 11:21 am: Edit

Hum.... we play it as Imp24 being the last impulse to be able to fire on Impulse 1 as well...
Why 25? It takes 8 full impulses before weapons are recycled, if you fire on Imp25 that means that Imp1 is the 8th one.

Not sure who is right...? Anyone can confirm this?

Anyhow, I don't think it's a bad tactic to fire on 24 but it all depends on how you are planning your approach. If you can plan it right and be in firing position at Imp 1 then it's a good thing.

By Glenn Hoepfner (Ikabar) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Impulse 25 -- fire phasers
impulse 26 -- first impulse
impulse 27 -- second impulse
impulse 28 -- third impulse
impulse 29 -- fourth impulse
impulse 30 -- fifth impulse
impulse 31 -- sixth impulse
impulse 32 -- seventh impulse
impulse 1 -- eigth impulse (weapons can fire)

You can fire weapons on the eighth impulse after the previous firing provided the second firing takes place on a different turn.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:28 pm: Edit

Daniel - you can't fire WITHIN 8 impulses. That makes impulse 25 the last impulse you can fire and still be able to fire on impulse 1.

Another key factor is looking to see if the will NEED to fire on impulse 1. It is often better to fire >imp 25 if you foresee that you won't NEED to fire the first few impulses of the turn and you can get a good/better shot.

By Gerhard Thamm (Gthamm) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:56 pm: Edit

So you can fire on the 8th impulse of the 1/4 turn wait. Not wait 8 impulses and fire on the ninth. Thanks for the clarification.(sp?)

By Charles E. Leiserson, Jr. (Bester) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 01:44 pm: Edit

Well, there are exactly 8 impulses between the Direct Fire Weapons stage of Impulse 25 and that of Impulse 1 of the next turn, so you are in truth waiting the full 8 impulses if you fire on Impulse 1.

It can be confusing due to several other rules (scatterpack blossoming and t-bomb detonation, for example) where things happen on an earlier step than on that which the count begins.

By Glenn Hoepfner (Ikabar) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Gerhard, correct.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 02:22 am: Edit

Gerhard, here's the trick; if the delay is from the same step in the impulse procedure to the same step, simply take the impulse of fire/activity and add X impulses, where X equals the delay specified in the rules. Impulse N+X is when you can next fire/use that system.

An exception is when the system will resolve in a different step from when the delay begins, such is the case in shuttle luanch to release seeking weapons for scatterpacks. In that case the SP does become ready for release in 8 impulses, but being already past 'launch drones' effectively has to wait another impulse.

By Scott Burleson (Burl) on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:13 am: Edit

You never count your power while you're chasing down a cruiser. There will be time enough for counting during next EA.

Sorry Kenneth, had to finish your train of thought there.

Actually, that is probably bad advice but it fit the cadence best.

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:59 am: Edit

Wouldn't something like this be a bit more appropiate:
You never count your internals when you're firing your weapons, they'll be time enough for couting during next EA.

By Glenn Hoepfner (Ikabar) on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:42 am: Edit

In a knife fight, always expect to be cut.

By Gerhard Thamm (Gthamm) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 10:18 am: Edit

We got another one that makes 6 in our group in only 2 weeks and another might join. Everyone who plays this game is instantly addicted. What would be the proper thread to post questions us newbies would have? Thanks for your help guys (and gals).

By Ken Humpherys (Pmthecat) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 12:54 pm: Edit

For questions about rules, it is usually best to ask in the Rules Questions topic.

Tactics are another matter, Good places to ask questions are in the Tourney Zone or General Tactics.

Otherwise just surf around and find what interests you.

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Here is a pretty good review for SFB:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3635

It would be a good read for someone thinking about getting into the game.

By Marcus J. Giegerich (Marcusg) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Who wrote that review? •••• good job.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Cliff McAmis
(darthcliff)
He's on SFBOL pretty regular. (Under the same callsign/handle.)

By Marcus J. Giegerich (Marcusg) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Cool. The part about the tournament scene and the arrogance of experienced players cracked me up because it's so true in many cases.

By John C. Malis (Malis) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 09:41 pm: Edit

"You will start to look at other games through the eyes of a Klingon"

Oh man, that's so righteous.

Malis

By Michael Bennett (Mike) on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 08:22 pm: Edit

I've read postings here for quite awhile and thought I'd finally post something.

I am a teacher and have had an interest in SFB for quite a number of years. For the last 20+ years I've worked with a number of students who wanted to play SFB. All the time consuming dice rolling and consulting of the DAC prompted us to develop a computer program (in BASIC) to pretty much do those things for us. We also adopted a "mega-impulse" approach of 8 impulses per mega-impulse. The students liked the improvement in the speed of play and we have basically stuck with this system for all these years. I know it is not "official" but it has worked for us.