Umm, no. I said they "fare somewhat better". The other ships in your example are heavier war cruisers, made specifically for fighting. The XCA is not.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 09:49 pm: Edit

J.T.:

Let me guess, you nominate my XCA design.


M.R.:

Yes but by the same token, is the Kzinti BC really not a war-optimised vessel similar to if not almost identical to the Fed CB in relation to the CA and CS respectively???

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 11:27 pm: Edit

MJC,

No, I wouldn't choose one of your designs, but 10 out of 10 points for irony value.

My first and admittedly unfair nomination would be my own Kzinti XCC.

6 inbound drones per turn wouldn't seriously bother it. (For those of you playing at home, my Kzinti dates to a time when it was fashoionable to have warp output set at 45-48. That was about 2 years ago. I guess I should revise the SSD...)


Now for a more realistic thought experiment:

Let's take a generic Fed XCA with 8 P-5's and 2 GX2 racks.

We can expect 6 of the 8 phasers to face the drone attack and kill 3-4 drones. We'll assume only 3.

Can two ADDs account for the other 3, especially given our Advanced ADD? Yes.

It's as simple as that.

Then tractors step in to grap the occasional cripple that might otherwise hit and offside phasers kill it later.

I haven't even touched the S-bridge's lock-on break attempt.

It gets dicey around the third turn as the GX racks run out of ADD rounds, but they should get through by tractoring what's left or launching drones vs drones or perhaps tossing out a T-bomb in an emergency.

Klinks have it just as easy or easier.

Lyrans have ESGs

Tholians have Web/Snare.

Kzintis--well you saw my Kzinti XBC...

Hydrans have gatlings.

Plasma races would have more trouble, but then they historically did have more trouble with drones.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 06:19 am: Edit

I second John T's "yes." Here's my latest XCA. Forgive the messy SSD; it's still in draft form.

Against a drone swarm (and extrapolate up to fighters/shuttles/PFs), the Type-X drone rack can pump 8 CDWs (X2-ADDs and then some) in one impulse under AEGIS (limited). The Ph-5 and Ph-6 can double-pulse as Ph-6 under AEGIS as well. Not to mention each Type-X cell (the four little round thingies in the saucer, they're associated with the XDRN box and are like that for other play reasons which I won't go into here) can pop off a drone each turn. You'll note that I only have one drone rack, but I think it only needs one.

Plus I have some other nifty little tricks I'm working on. Drones will have a hard time against this ship, for that matter so would plasmas.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 07:42 am: Edit

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Quote:

M.R.:

Yes but by the same token, is the Kzinti BC really not a war-optimised vessel similar to if not almost identical to the Fed CB in relation to the CA and CS respectively

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Mike,

In an average drone-using SFB fight, what percentage of drones actually hit?

Darn few.

There's one simple change we can keep in our back pockets that evens the odds: All X2 drones take damage the way H-drones do.

I'm not worried.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 07:15 pm: Edit

J.T.:

One thing you missed out on is the odd SP.
AT WS-III both the D7D and D7W will have ( maybe ) 2 SPs in each vessels.
That's a four turn period where the drone chuck rate isn't six IVF but rather 9 before either of the Klingon vessels starts building SPs during the turn. The two type VIF drones per turn sent to mess with your ID attempts ( and probably loaded into SPs for two IVF & four VIF ) can probably be dealt with by letting them hit your shields.

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Quote:

in fact, because of the limited number of phasers (8 instead of 12) they often can't do it as well.

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By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Now that there's XP, a non-X ship can mount and fire type-VII X-drones rather than having to rely on type-I drones.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 08:21 pm: Edit

That remainds me.

Does type VIII-a drone count as 3/8 of a psace of limited drones, no spaces of limited drones or half a space of limited drones???


The CL23 X revision created a lot of calculation problems with X drones that should get cleared up before the XP stuff makes them more common.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 09:28 pm: Edit

MJC,

I left out a lot of counter-drone measures too.

The counter for a SP is the T-bomb or the S-bridge lock-on break against the SP before it breaks (assuming it's within range).

For your type-VIII example, specify exactly what modules you have on the thing. I don't think there's an accounting problem.


Brodie,

I'd say a standard-tech rack canot use X-drones without that rack getting XP-refitted.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 09:44 pm: Edit

A type VIII-a drone would be 18/10/32 but it would take 1.5 spaces in the rack, since it has two warhead spaces does that mean it counts as 0.375 spaces of limited drones?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Question #1: Is the frame limited or Restricted?

Doesn't sound like it.

You have a half-space of armor, right? (that's why I asked you for modules)

That counts as a 1/2 space of limited. End of story.

Limited and restricted are usually allocated on a module space by module space basis, IIRC. Frame upgrades are considered to cover all module spaces.

An VIII drone should account identically to type-VI drone if I remember the VIII's revised space-count correctly.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, December 24, 2004 - 12:20 am: Edit

1) Not if it's launched from an X-ship. Which was my meaning.
2) That's right, and that's the only module and it's internal armour.
3)"That counts as a 1/2 space of limited. End of story."
But by that logic then a type VIII slug drone would count as two spaces of limited drones whilst a type VIII drone with a full space of external armour would be only 1.5 space of limited drones and type VIII-Aa drone would be only 1.5 spaces of restricted drones.

If a type VII-Aa is 1.5 spaces of limited drones but a type VII-xA is only one space of limited drones then I think that's a bad state of play.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, December 24, 2004 - 10:59 am: Edit

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Quote:

P.S.
That X2 cruiser has the ability to autokill a type IF drone with a single Ph-6 shot at R1. That's a strong ability.

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 02:49 pm: Edit

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Quote:

3)"That counts as a 1/2 space of limited. End of story."
But by that logic then a type VIII slug drone would count as two spaces of limited drones whilst a type VIII drone with a full space of external armour would be only 1.5 space of limited drones and type VIII-Aa drone would be only 1.5 spaces of restricted drones.

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By Roger Dupuy (Rogerdupuy) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 06:56 pm: Edit

So...can the anybox be considered as:

a lab or a trans or a trac? To be assigned during EA and changed in EA of the following turn?

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 04:14 am: Edit

To be honest, I don't mind this idea of a Box doing multiple stuff, but I feel that this is more of an "X3" technology (if there ever is an X3)then an X2. Just sounds very advanced in my opinion.

Can I make a suggestion? If we want to have all races use this type of system, how about for X2 limiting this type of system to only certain units. Like how about only Shipyards and Bases are equiped with this type of advanced technology?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 11:24 am: Edit

There won't be an X3 because, as the rules states, that is for the next generation.


I've never liked the Any Box because it assures cookie-cutterism, IMHO. However, I suppose that I could be less opposed to a few kinds of Any Box that were limited to one field. Such as, Sciences, Tactical, Utility.

Science and Tactical options require power to change (2 points) and are available the following turn. Either Any Box can be what Utility covers. Any Boxes are hit on the system they are at the time or on Any Hit. Science and Tactical Any Boxes can be null and avoid being hit until they are destroyed with the first Any Hit in the DAC.

Science and Tactical Any Boxes require 10 points to repair. Utility Any Boxes require repair points to repair whatever system they are.

Sciences can be Lab, Probe, Sensor, Scanner (Sens and Scan are a single top track box).

Tactical can be tractor, transporter, or phaser. When used as a weapon it burns out and must be rebuilt. The box is not marked destroyed but is not a functional device until made into something else.

Utility can be Hull, Cargo, Barracks, APR, or Battery, and in some cases Shuttle (see ship descriptions) or Drogue Bay, or a drone Rack-A. These use other systems for replication of their componants and can only be changed betwen scenarios (but do not require a base). Their default system is Cargo. Shuttles come from storage and do not allow a ship to buy more shuttles. However, it still costs two BPV (from avalable Commanders Option points) to have the shuttle already out of storage. Drones also come from storage and do not add to the ships store (and doesn't allow them to buy any if they don't already have them)nor do they add to percentages for special drones.

Not all ships will have an Any Box and not always of all types. The largest ships might have two of each. Light cruisers might have just the two Sciences and Tactical. Destroyers would have two of just tactical and perhaps a (one) utility box. Frigates just the Utility types.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Thereplicant) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Frankly, the only physics don't support a "any-system box". It's like having shootgun that also is a toothpick and pocket calculator. Work in fantasy novels, but not in Sci-Fi.
The ONLY way is to get an effect similar to it, is to have several systems WITH VERY REDUCED CAPABILITY in one box.
It could be a box that has, for example, a one-shot probe, a lab that can do a quarter of that of an ordinary lab box, a transporter that can only transport one person, a tractor that has only a range of one, and can't be powered by more than one energy point.

Not sure it is something anyone would want, or need..

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 03:36 pm: Edit

I assume that the ANY BOX is something based on a replicator system. As such I would say that the Tactical ANY BOX above would be single use items that you then must rebuild or build a new unit.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Thereplicant) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Well, it just a Deux ex machina thing to me.
I mean, let the poor script makers use replicators to solve their problems when their imagination is not good enough, but in SFB things should preferably rest on a more solid ground.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Thereplicant) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Besides it a can of worms. It would be just the thing to get weapons that never can be lost.
Just eject the destroyed one and replicate a new one.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 04:07 pm: Edit

That is certainly NOT the case with my rule above. I don't know where you got that idea at all. ANY BOXES are easy as anything to destroy except when they are nothing then they aren't hit until very deep into the DAC. AND, they are expensive to repair.

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 06:05 pm: Edit

I don't know guys. I just brought up my idea because this technology seems INCREDIBLY advance, even for X2. I didn't say that X2 wouldn't have this type of Technology, just that only certain units could have it at X2 (Like Ship Yards, Bases, maybe even specially designed ships designed to use it) and would be a VERY expensive system to produce in significant numbers.

Loren, I think your suggestions are great and would make the system worth wilde, but I think I like Carl-Magnus's suggestions a little more because it keeps this type of technology limited (although maybe not quite as extreme as he had suggested). I mean, even Feds in the Early Years had Phtons, but didn't get Overload and Poxy capability until later. And the LDR got Gatling Phasers fairly early in there history, but it was expensive and was not widely installed in all of there units initially.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Thereplicant) on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Well, it is to much TNG for me, and thats all.
I think this thing would be more something for prime teams when moving around, on missions, in skiffs and PFs. IOW RPG item.