Here's a question-- since the Tholians build larger ships by combining PC hulls, in a free form campaign could you set up small ship yards to produce PC/DD hulls and engines and then combine them at other areas? I.E. build two PC's and later rebuild them into a C?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 09:38 am: Edit

Tholians build a PC with a computerized forge. To build a C they build 80% of a PC from the left and 80% of a PC from the right, then weld them together. If you built 100% of a PC you would then have to cut the ship at the 80% line, twice. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it would be a heck of a lot more work than just programming the forge to stop at 80%.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 11:04 am: Edit

PDT will explain the general building process but basically PC's are built inside the Sphere in a highly automated factory. IF they are to be a PC or a DD they are fully built there. If they are intended to be part of a larger hull the the process is modified to produce a hull suitable for that. In some cases there is considerable hands-on construction such as some of the hull plating on the D (connector pannels taken from raw output fromt the forge). Multi-Hull Archeo-Tholian ships are assembled outside the Sphere.

This is NOT a ship yard in the normal sense and could not construct anything without the auto-builder. It is an assembly area.

This has a bennefit too in that if destroyed it is far easier to reconstruct.

By Charles Gray (Cgray45) on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 07:27 pm: Edit

So, in PDT (and when is that scheduled for release?), is it ever mentioned if they regain the ability to create new autobuilders? I'd assuem that eventully, possibly post X2 they'd redevelop the technology.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Y204 is the limit which PDT goes per SVC's request. He doesn't want to lock in anything for a period that is largely unwritten.

I know that they will not have another before that.

PDT will explain the nature of this, it's development and technological level.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 12:38 am: Edit

I note that in F&E the Tholians can convert two PCs to a CA or CW, or three PCs to a DN, or two PCs plus a DD to a DH^*. It is clearly possible for the Tholians to take already built PC hulls and combine them into larger ships.

^*It seems like that ought to be two PCs plus a CW, based on the DH SSD. But unless there's some F&E errata that I missed, the rule book says two PCs plus a DD.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 11:23 am: Edit

Alan Trevor: Right on both accounts.

I suspect we will need a new mini done... Mike Raper?

Check out the PC/DD deck plans in CL33 and a lot of things will be explained obout Archeo-Tholian ship designs. They are one of the coolest things ever!

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 11:57 am: Edit

The Tholians have an automated forge that can produce a full PC hull, but obviously it is also capable of producing just part of a hull, or pieces of a hull if for no other reason than that it is often cheaper to do repairs than to replace a whole ship. Thus there is no strangeness to the concept that the forge could crank out hull plates to, for example, replace a section of a ship damaged by a direct collision with an asteroid, rather than melting the whole hull down and (after adding additional mass to replace that lost as a result of the collision) reforging the whole ship. Consider the attendant costs of removing the engines and other components and reinstalling them in the new ship, and the savings from simply repairing a damaged ship are obvious. (Yes, there are obviously levels of damage where it is better to just junk the whole ship and build a new one.)

When building the larger ships/combination ships, it is obvious that replacement hull plates are produced and then welded together to make parts that would not normally be produced by the Forge.

Available background about the Tholian Automated Forge says that it can produce three things:

Patrol Corvettes,

Frigate/Destroyer Command Modules, and

Light Cruiser/Heavy Cruiser/Dreadnought/Battleship Command Modules. (The History says that the Holdfast Tholians could replace lost Command Modules on their Neo-Tholian ships, but could not build the rear hulls, and given that, it is obvious that it would have to be able to build the Command Modules for Frigates/Destroyers).

Given the differences between those three designs (as seen on the miniatures for the PC/CA/CW/D/NCL/NCA/NDN), there is little doubt that the Tholians would be able to get a hull plate with any needed degree of "curvature" that would be needed to assemble the connecting sections between the two parts of a CA, or a CW, or the three parts of a D or a DH. With a need to fill out a ship list, the Tholians were able to also build in our Galaxy (but not their home Galaxy) the Police Cutter, and later the "Collar" (this latter apparently with great difficulty as despite what it adds, there are no indications that a collar was built for each of the Holdfast Tholian's Neo-Tholian ships, or that their X-Versions used collars, at least as of this time).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 12:02 pm: Edit

Loren Knight:

While you are authorized to work on the Prime Directie Module for the Tholians, you are NOT authorized to change existing canon. You can agree with Alan Trevor that the DH should require two PCs and a CW, but you can NOT say that he is right. I mean no insult by this, but words have meaning, and given that you are working on Prime Directive Tholians, some might think you have an authority to make rules changes that has not been delegated to you.

Alan Trevor:

If you believe that there is an error, you should submit it in the Federationa and Empire rules area for possible correction.

To All:

I am not trying to steal Loren Knight's Thunder, but this would be a case of "exceeding his authority", Loren cannot change existing rules.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 12:19 pm: Edit

SPP: Oh, I suppose that it could be interpreted that way but I totally don't feel I have any power and know that nothing I say is rule until SVC prints it... in a module.

I actually posted that Alan Trevor was wrong but then quickly double checked and the ship description in R7 (R7.44) specifically states "...by using elements of a war cruiser in place of one of the PC sections."

I had no choice but to change my post to agree with him but I was doing that as a player. However, I realize that I'm actually in a more unique possition and should be careful.

I was also agreeing that the F&E rule should be checked.

By Jack Andre Bohn (Jbohn) on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 05:18 am: Edit

Loren,
I note it's been three months since I first got on these board and saw a teaser for PDT.
While the teasing for PDT has been a not-unpleasant experience, I suspect it will now turn into torture over CL33 as folks start talking about it while I'm waiting for the vagarities of distribution and my trip to a game store to get a copy!