| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:25 pm: Edit |
Conversation moved from G3 MASTER ANNEX to discuss the creation of a concensus for publication to be presented to ADB for the official nomenclature of abbreviations for drone construction.
Additionally, to provide an updated and comprehensive chart of all drone upgrades than what is currently available in (FD10.0).
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:34 pm: Edit |
Starting Point: Drone Naming Nomenclature
| Letter Code | Description | BPV | YIS | Avail | Rule |
| Drone Frames - Pick 1 | |||||
| I- | Type-I Drone Frame | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD2.1) |
| II- | Type-II Drone Frame | 0.0 | 77 | G | FD2.1) |
| III- | Type-III Drone Frame | 0.5 | 83 | L | (FD2.1) |
| IV- | Type-IV Drone Frame | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD2.1) |
| V- | Type-V Drone Frame | 0.0 | 77 | G | (FD2.1) |
| VI- | Type-VI Dogfight Drone Frame | 0.0 | 99 | G | (FD2.5) |
| H- | Type-H Heavy Drone Frame | 0.0 | 165 | G | (FD21.0) |
| VII- | Type-VII X-Drone Frame | 0.0 | 181 | G | (XFD2.0) |
| VIII- | Type-VIII X-Drone Frame | 0.0 | 181 | G | (XFD2.0) |
| IX- | Type-IX X-Dogfight Drone Frame | 0.0 | 181 | G | (XFD2.0) |
| Drone Speeds - Pick 1 | |||||
| S- | Slow Speed | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD10.32) |
| 12- | Moderate Speed | 0.5 | 77/100/120 | L/R/G | (FD10.33) |
| M- | Medium Speed | 0.5 | 165/166/167 | L/R/G | (FD10.34) |
| F- | Fast Speed | 1.0 | 178/179/180 | L/R/G | (FD10.35) |
| Additional Upgrades - No space consumed. | |||||
| XX | Extended Range | 0.5 | 93 | G | (FD2.222) |
| H | Active Terminal Guidance | 0.5 | 126 | R | (FD5.2) |
| e | 0.5 External Armor | 0.3 | 67 | L | (FD12.0) |
| E | 1.0 External Armor | 0.5 | 67 | L | (FD12.0) |
| Drone Warheads - Pick up to space available for frame | |||||
| d | 0.5 Explosive | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD10.41) |
| x | 1.0 Explosive | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD10.41) |
| X | 2.0 Explosive | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD10.41) |
| u | 0.5 Null Space | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD10.48) |
| n | 1.0 Null Space | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD10.48) |
| N | 2.0 Null Space | 0.0 | 65 | G | (FD10.48) |
| r | 0.5 Armor | 0.0 | 67 | R | (FD12.0) |
| R | 1.0 Armor | 0.0 | 67 | R | (FD12.0) |
| P | Probe | 0.0 | 152*/155 | R | (FD6.0) |
| m | 1.0 Multi-Warhead | 2.0 ** | 175 | L | (FD8.0) |
| M | 2.0 Multi-Warhead | 2.5 ** | 170 | L | (FD8.0) |
| C | ECM | 0.0 | 150 | R | (FD9.0) |
| f | 1.0 SwordFish (Ph3) | 0.5 | 174 | L | (FD11.0), (XFD11.12) |
| F | 2.0 SwordFish (Ph-2) | 1.0 | 174 | L | (FD11.0), (XFD11.12) |
| s | 1.0 SpearFish | 0.5 | 175 | L | (FD14.0), (XFD14.1) |
| S | 2.0 SpearFish | 1.0 | 175 | L | (FD14.0), (XFD14.1) |
| t | 1.0 StarFish | 2.0 | 172 | L | (FD15.0) |
| T | 2.0 StarFish | 2.5 | 172 | L | (FD15.0) |
| v | Stingray | 0.5 ** | 168/171 | L/R | (FD16.0) |
| w | StoneFish | 0.5 | 168/171 | L/R | (FD17.0) |
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:35 pm: Edit |
ORIGINALLY POSTED IN "Module G3 Master Annexes"
Quote:By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 12:30 pm: Edit
The chart needs the catfish (Frax) frame addition. Also subspace guided missile (Qari).
I would use A for armor.
I would get rid of the Roman numerals. They just make things harder to read, and we have had a better alternative for, oh, 1000 years or so.
I would use nothing for explosive modules - why complicate the nomenclature for the most common case? A type-4F means 2 spaces of explosive.
I would use something besides 12 to indicate moderate speed.
Finally, I would change all costs to indicate purchase cost. If you want trade-in cost, simply subtract 1 BPV per drone space. (I suppose you could give trade-in costs for everything, but that should be a separate table.)
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:36 pm: Edit |
ORIGINALLY POSTED IN "Module G3 Master Annexes"
Quote:By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 02:29 pm: Edit
Also, get rid of the type-II and type-V frames. A type-II is just a type-I explosive drone with moderate speed. A type-V is just a type-IV explosive drone with moderate speed. Since you account for the moderate speed enhancement separately, type-II and type-V frames should be deleted.
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:37 pm: Edit |
ORIGINALLY POSTED IN "Module G3 Master Annexes"
Quote:By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 03:10 pm: Edit
I like the chart!
Frax Catfish Drones
Frame Modification (0 space)
Can't be with ATG (includes psuedo-ATG).
Availablity G on Submarines, unpermitted otherwise
No YIS (assume 121 - first sub)
Cost 5 BPV
Qari Subspace-Guided Missile
Frame - 1-space drones
Available Y156 General, Qari only
Cost +2 BPV.
The chart needs to have the wacky exceptions added (such as Klingons getting III-ECM as Restricted)
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:37 pm: Edit |
ORIGINALLY POSTED IN "Module G3 Master Annexes"
Quote:By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 03:35 pm: Edit
If we create an official nomenclature for drones, then we are doing more documenting SFB, we are creating new material. If we are going to do that, we should get it right. It seems to me that in Commander's Edition, dogfight drones had a confusing name, which was changed to "type-VI". So why not get rid of other goofy things, like Roman numerals?
As for the warhead abbreviations, I was not aware that an official nomenclature existed in SFB. SFBOL, yeah, but in the printed materials? Have I missed something?
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:38 pm: Edit |
ORIGINALLY POSTED IN "Module G3 Master Annexes"
Quote:By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:10 pm: Edit
Gary, no, I am correct. Please delete them.
Rule (FD10.33) specifically states that the moderate speed engine only has an endurance of two turns. The limited duration is purely a function of the propulsion system, NOT the drone frame.
Furthermore, (FD10.21) specifically states that there are only two drone frames: one-space and two-space types.
Therefore, a type-II drone is, in every way, a moderate speed type-I drone. And it is not that they are equivalent; they are literally the same drone.
Type-II and Type-IV drones make no sense, and should not be listed in a system built on FD10. Type-II and type-V drones are not relevant, except as special case historical footnotes.
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:49 pm: Edit |
I personally feel, that with the amount of rules and scenarios published that ADB will not agree to remove the Roman Numeral naming convention nor the existance of Type-II and Type-V drones from SFB.
| By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 04:57 pm: Edit |
I know! Let's use Greek letters! It would be great!
"I'm using my labs to identify the two drones in hex 2715." (rolls dice) "Got em both!"
"One's a standard Type-IM. The Other's a Type-IVMGS."
"Uhhh... ?"
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 05:03 pm: Edit |
Oh, and before somebody decides to be (not) funny:
EXODRONES will NOT be considered for inclusion.
| By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 05:04 pm: Edit |
Don't worry about a nomenclature for speed 12; just use II and V, which are the drone frames of that speed - this also helps account for the drop in duration (time) in a clearer manner.
(yes, I know this is the opposite of the prior "kill II/V idea" but, while I see the need to drop one of them, I believe Mike picked the wrong one...)
| By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 08:24 pm: Edit |
III drones are speed 12.
| By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 10:15 pm: Edit |
First, I never said anything about removing type-II or -V drones from the game. I was merely talking about the chart.
Second, they should be added as a footnote, as they have an historical context. They are just not needed in the chart as they are redundant and potentially confusing. (For example, see the confusion shown during out discussion about them.)
Finally, if you insist on leaving them in the chart, list them correctly. The frames cost 0.5 points, not 0.0, because they include moderate speed propulsion, not slow. Also, type-II and -V drones may not have their propulsion systems upgraded, and that will need to be noted.
| By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 10:22 pm: Edit |
Andy,
The reason I would like to see type-II and -V removed from the chart is because they are confusing.
The chart is set up to choose a frame, then choose a propulsion system, then choose upgrades, then finally chose payload. If you leave type-II and -V drone frames in the chart, then you have to special case them to skip over the propulsion selection.
I think the chart will be much simplier to understand and use if the type-II and type-V are removed from the chart, and add a footnote that says something like:
A type-I drone with moderate speed propulsion was also known as a type-II drone. A type-IV drone with moderate speed propulsion was also known as a type-V drone.
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 12:01 pm: Edit |
That's a good point that all speed-12s are tied to a unique drone frame.
Is it easier to have no designation for speed for those or would that be confusing?
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 12:05 pm: Edit |
Paul Franz - Input on the topic as it's related to the drone abbreviations you put in SFBOnline?
Did you get those from ADB or did you just have to make up ones that weren't "known"?
| By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 01:47 pm: Edit |
USe 2 letter abbreviations for special modules (SW= Swordfish, SP= Spearfish, etc.)
But a heck of a start.
Excellent job Gary.
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 02:10 pm: Edit |
Well, if we depart from this baseline, I'd prefer to use 2-letter codes for the modules that don't take up space (ATG, Extended Range, External Armor) and stay 1 letter for ones that do use warhead space.
I also like the convention of lower case for the smaller version of a module and UPPER CASE for the larger of the same.
And then not have letters for sizes more than 1.0 and just use the same letter twice. (Like having EXPLOSIVE be "x" for 0.5 space (6 damage), "X" for 1.0 space (12 damage), Xx for 1.5 spaces (18 damage), XX for 2.0 spaces (24 damage).) But then we need to make sure not to duplicate a 2-letter code.
| By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 11:27 pm: Edit |
IN response, the usualk abbreviation for a extended range is X, and I think there are a lot more warheads types than the reverse (and a LOT of them start with S).
Mikeq
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:24 am: Edit |
Quote:
Frax Catfish Drones
Frame Modification (0 space)
Can't be with ATG (includes psuedo-ATG).
Availablity G on Submarines, unpermitted otherwise
No YIS (assume 121 - first sub)
Cost 5 BPV
Qari Subspace-Guided Missile
Frame - 1-space drones
Available Y156 General, Qari only
Cost +2 BPV.
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:27 am: Edit |
Quote:USe 2 letter abbreviations for special modules (SW= Swordfish, SP= Spearfish, etc.)
| By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 03:23 pm: Edit |
Catfish is a frame modification (like ATG). Any drone can be equiped with it, but only on Frax Submarine Ships. It is marked as Simulator Only.
Yes, they can use any of the drone modules.
SGMs have a special guidance system on them that makes them fairly noxious. It can navigate as either a standard drone, probe drone or release to its own management as an ATG drone.
| By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 04:09 pm: Edit |
" Paul Franz - Input on the topic as it's related to the drone abbreviations you put in SFBOnline?
Did you get those from ADB or did you just have to make up ones that weren't "known"?"
I just made up ones for the types that were not known and I needed a way to say what kind of drone it was.
Paul Franz
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 09:42 am: Edit |
Quote:SGMs have a special guidance system on them that makes them fairly noxious. It can navigate as either a standard drone, probe drone or release to its own management as an ATG drone.
| By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 09:43 am: Edit |
Oh, and does somebody have the rule numbers for reference for the CATFISH and the SGM? Thanks.
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