Lyran CL Upgrade
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
New Ships:
Processed:
Lyran CL Upgrade
Continuing from a drifted "Why" thread . . .
I'd be tempted to stick in R12 a Lyran CM that's the CL with +2 Battery, +2 APR, +2 Tractors, and a bit heavier on #2/6 shields, as a design that was prototyped in, oh, Y165. Then I'd have production of the CMs and conversions of CLs to the CM standard canceled, with the CW (Y165) and the BC (Y168) preempting the need, conversion money, slips, and convertible hulls, canceling the program. (Then later in the war, when a heavier BC became necessary and concern about long-term hull stress was lessened, the plans were dusted off and applied to the Wildcat, birthing the Hellcat.)
Why prototype a CL+ in Y165, if the CW came out that year which completely replaced any further CL production? If it was just to upgrade existing hulls, it seems like they would be content converting those to BCs.
Competing proposals, possibly. I don't have SSDs handy, but how does this compare to a CW without power pack?
The other reason would be that the CW is a war cruiser with a shorter service life than a CL. If the Lyrans weren't going to all-out war, CW's wouldn't make sense, but upgraded CL's would.
Might want to consider proposing it as a "what if the Lyrans never entered the General War" thing.
No war means no need for CW and a replacement design for the CL role would be appropriate for the Lyran Admiralty to propose.
Peace time construction being what it it... they might have introduced it as a "replacement" for wornout, or lost CL's during normal peacetime activities.
With a 30 year service life and 1 hull every 2 years, the Lyrans would eventually be able to replace all of the older designs and maintained a fleet strength of about 15 or so CL's and still avoid the "block obsolecense" problem that happens when you build a lot of hulls in a short period of time.
I personally don't think that a CL upgrade would have ever worked. A CW without a power pack(Y165) is better armed, and has as good a power curve. I personally think that it is the power packs (that come in spring of Y168) that are what make the Lyran war conversions have a short life/range.
This is a Lyran CM I designed... I think... around August of '04.
Robert, good to hear from you.
On an upgraded CL, I think the evolution to the Wildcat was a just a matter of time. The first trimarians appear before the GW begins and the BC shortly after. While no GW might have delayed the introduction of the BC, it would have happened eventually. In fact, based on one campaign experience several years ago, the BC upgrade to a CL actually became a higher priority than than CC/CA upgrades to DNs (mainly a matter of economics, command rating, and biggest improvement in ship performance - i.e. "Bang for the Buck").
Any prewar plan to upgrade the CL "sponsons", if you want to call them that, beyond what you see in the Hellcat raises the question of why were the improvements not incorperated into the larger designs, at least eventually in the BCH.
I may try to put something together between painting sessions today. Working on an SSD would be a nice diversion ... I had forgotten how much pain was involved in painting a room in the house ... especially painting it RED!
Heres an idea - a Lyran CL vanished into an ion storm in Y173 and came out of it again in the Omega Octant's Federal Republic of Aurora (all mentioned in Omega 3). This ship became the source of the FRA's limited use of ESGs.
But what if the Aurorans put the ship into service in their own Navy? Since they could not go to the trouble of turning it into a BC, they might look for another means of upgrading the ship...
Gary
Quote:Robert, good to hear from you.
Yeah, I troll the BBS off and on throughout the week. 
Here's another take on an upgraded Lyran CL, close to Steven's original proposal. I called it a Lyran CM as Robert did, but I gave it a slightly different "handle".
Essentially, this is a CL with the power upgrades eventually applied to the sponsons used on the BCH. I then provided a second refit to increase the number of disruptors and further improve power and shields (making my best effort at following other Lyran design trends - the CC and CW in particular).
The thought process/potential background:
........
By the end of the four powers war, the Lyrans were increasingly dissatisfied with the performance of the CL. As an alternative to the trimarain program that eventually produced the CW, the Lyrans explored an improved CL as a future war time cruiser. The initial designs provided for a power increase only, but the eventual competition with the CW prototype prompted the addition of two disruptors.
Ultimately, the Lyrans elected to produce the CW, feeling a far-reaching upgrade program for existing DDs would be more economical than more intrusive CL upgrades. The CWs power pack sealed the CMs fate, making the CW both more efficent to produce and faster while loading weapons.
The CM power upgrades were not included in the BC design as the additional power was more easily added to the center hull, and designers felt the available power was sufficent. When additional power was needed for the later BCH design, the old CM plans were dusted off as the solution. The additional disruptors of the CM+ design never appeared in Lyran service on a BC or BCH as it was felt they would overstress the hull, but the LDR disregarded these concerns in completing Democracy.
........
Anywho, my whack at it. I don't see this ship as ever being anything more than a unique prototype or an unbuilt variant. The JGP and eventual BC seem like far easier and less intrusive upgrades, and the CM should probably be nothing more than an interesting "what might have been."
Cheers!
I like the pink panther.
I can't see 12 point warp engines, as those would be unique. 10-pointers with other power upgrades look better.
Also, the CCH shows that it is possible to upgrade the center section. I wonder if that would be a good place to add systems?
I proposed a CL that had lost its engines in the FAR southern corner of the Lyran empire. New one were sourced from the Klingons (D5) and the freed hull space (the disruptors are on the sponsons) was put to good use.
About equal to a CWL, but different. And definately a step down from the wildcat
The one thing I always thought about the Lyran CL is that it was, essentially, their equivalent to the Fed CL. This is especially true in its primary weapon suite: 6 P-1s (after refit).
A possible solution to its power issues, I think, could be to build a prototype center section similar to that of the CCH, which comes out in Y175. It would (or could) have 4 IMP, 2 APR, 2 P-1s 360o, 2 BRDG, and a PRB (net gain: +3 power, +2 P-1s). It would also keep the MC the same, as oppose to raising it like the JGP does. It may even be possible to justify an increase in shield strength in the deal. The best part is that the new center section could be used on any non-trimaran SC3 hull until the CCH is developed, that is. After that it would be obsolete.
No takers on the FRA-Lyran CL idea then?
Gary
Gary, its possible, at least as possible as most of the other ships showing up in the FRA. However, my recollection (my Omega stuff is buried in boxes from my recent move) is that the FRA got its ESGs from an Orion hull. I haven't looked at the FRA in a while, so I could be wrong.
There was an Orion ship whch went to Omega with Aurora in Y130 (the famed Throne of Ozymondas) but according to Omega 3 a Lyran CL went over in Y173 - and that the ESG tech used on FRA Escorts came from that ship.
However, it would not be surprising if the ship was pressed into service anyway - but the question would be what kind of FRA tech would go on the ship?
(Now that there will be an Omega development thred for 2007, I'll be asking for the inclusion of this and other 'new arrival' ships to Aurora - such as the Klingon squadron that was brought over with Kranora in Y171...)
Gary
The biggest problems the CL has are:
Few batteries
Only 20 warp
Every weapon requires power
Quote:Every weapon requires power
Oh, My, God! Say.It.Isn't.So!
Hey.....
All Lyran ships are like that.
That's why G.O.D. made the Jadgpanther, uh, well, G.O.D.'s right hand man did, Stewart Frazier did. haha
...and the power pack.
Er, I meant a prototype in Y164, not Y165.
The idea is the design was a conservative backup plan for both the CW and BC conversions. If the CW design had failed, it would have been used for further light cruiser production. If the BC had not worked, it would have been used to make the existing CLs more useful by alleviating the battery and power shortages.
Since both trimaran conversions worked out, the Lyrans instead built CWs and converted the CLs to BCs; the whole legacy of the "CM" program became the one prototype and the BCH upgrade.
And thus the suggestion for Module R12 (Unique Ships); only one was ever built.
I had always thought that the Marshals would have operated an improved CL design before they recieved their Wildcats. I would use a enlarged Center Section similar to the CCH'. Instead of extra phasers I would add an extra FA Disruptor. Enlarge the Shuttle bays and improve the shields. When they were converted to BCs the class disapeared. These ships would convert into BCs that would be functionally identical to the ant other Wildcat.
To make a CM from a Lyran Cl:
1) Swap out the engines with ones from a D5 (complete with nifty arcs for the disruptors).
2) remove the hull mounted disruptors.
3) Add a FEW systems to bring it up to about equal to the CWL. FOr example, you really oughta add some batteries.
Did the Marshals operate in Standard CA\CLs prior to the creation of the Wildcat? To be a bit more specific about the above idea;
take a CL remove the Centre section. Insert a new larger Centre which has 4imp, 2 bat, 2 apr, 2 Bridge. probe Launcher and an FA Disruptor. Enlarge each shuttle bay to 2 and strengthen the shields. This would also explain why only a small number existed and why they they were not used during the war (converted to Wildcats). This design produces a BC that is identical to the BCs that are made from a standard CL.
Hmmm, anyone remember the Lyran CS from the late '80s?? (think the JGP but with real weapons)
OK, a past from the past is the 'original' Strike Cruiser (JadgPanther) which was basically a Panther with a modified Jaguar center. The designation was due to the third ESG (in the center) along with five transporters (four in the CL [change the two LAB to TRANS and one in the center] plus a 50% increase to both the APR and battery decks (to 3 each).
Changes to the Jaguar center - connect the impulse and shuttle boxes (total of 6), place the ESG in the central probe position, place the Probe in the ESG #2 and a Transporter in the ESG #1.
Fire Control - CA standard.
Move cost = 3/4 (0.75).
CR = 8.
Shields - CW standard (30-24-20-20), posasible + refit to (33-24-24-24).
P refit standard.
Eligible for +, UIM, mech link and power pack refits.
YIS = Y166?
Thought to be used as CW leader (due to the three disruptors). Tactically equivalent to the CA (F&E=8).
