Option Mount Abbreviation Nomenclature
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board: New Rules: Option Mount Abbreviation Nomenclature
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Archive through February 18, 2007  25   03/05 06:41pm
By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 08:31 am: Edit

COMMENTS?

Determining if there is more input before calling this topic "done" and submitting it to ADB and letting them decide if it's worth being published.

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 09:32 pm: Edit

COMMENTS?

Determining if there is more input before calling this topic "done" and submitting it to ADB and letting them decide if it's worth being published.

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Last Call for comments.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 06:27 pm: Edit

I'm not sure how you could change this, but using numbers for Ion Cannon, IPG, and WTL seems confusing...

Because I can't think of a good fix - I say ga and submit.

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Understood.

A WTL is kinda like a phaser.
The other two were just because I needed something for them and they're fairly rare on Orions and at least are same-race so they're grouped together.

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Submitted to ADB.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Not workable.

If you want to do this, each item needs to be self-evident.

1 is not acceptable.

PH1 is.

Start over from that perspective. I'm not printing a table of secret codes. Self-evident abbreviations, ok.

ADD ok

A not ok.

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:54 pm: Edit

The impetus for this is that players commonly use 1-letter codes to indicate what is in option mounts. In my experience (several different geographical gaming groups and sanctioned tournaments) it is what is being done "in the wild", almost universally for tournament ships and commonly for non-tourney play. (Perhaps my sample set is not indicative of the overall community? If so, I would have expected to have heard more to that effect here.)

An example is BR(PPFF), which is a commonly used format to indicate how an Orion BattleRaider is equipped. It's pretty obvious that "P" is a Photon Torpedo. But, depending on the player, "F" may be Plasma-F or a Fusion Beam since there is no set standard.

Spelling them out or using the standard abbreviations (like PH1) works but results in overly-long descriptions. BR(Photon, Photon, PL-F, PL-F) is instantly recognizable but, in my experience, rarely done due to the length.

The point is to have it published somewhere so they aren't secret codes.

I'm honestly surprised, by the tone of your post, that this convention seems to be unknown or unaccepted by ADB. If ADB considers this a problem, then perhaps there needs to be a communication that this is not acceptable behavior and have the Tournament Judges ensure that it is not continued?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:35 am: Edit

I have never seen this "in the wild" and doubt it is widespread. In any case, we are NOT doing it.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:35 am: Edit

I've seen it done too. COuld have sworn I read a similar example to Gary's example (i.e., a Orion listed in a similar way) in a CL (Victory At?) or on this board.

By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:59 am: Edit

SVC, Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't all the tournament winner reports in Captain's Log for the past 5 years or so used abbreviations such as this when reporting Orion and WYN ships?

I'm not sure you could come up with a useful nomenclature that includes all option mounts, but it would be good to have an official list of standard abbreviations for the tournament mounts.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Andy: His point is that there is no official list.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Andy: they do not use single-letter secret codes, which is what Gary wants. If anybody wants to use Gary's system, knock yourself out. I'm not going to force anyone to use it.

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:08 pm: Edit

CL#27: Paul Scott's Victory At Origins 2003 article describes a WYN as "WYN Black Shark (B rack and Ph-1)" another WYN as "WYN Black Shark (2xB Racks)" and another as "WYN Auxillary Battlecruiser (G1G1)". This is 3 slightly different formats, the last being similiar to what I submitted.

CL#28: I don't own this issue.

CL#29: Tom Carrol's Victory at Origins 97 does spell out the options, such as "Orion (2xHellbore, Photon, 2xPhaser-1s)" and "Orion (2xhellbore, phaser-G?, drone, phaser-1?)".

CL#32: Ken Lin's Victory At Origins 2005 article describes 2 different Orions as "Orion (HHgBB)".

CL#30, 31, 33, & 34: No recount of battles where option mounts are listed.

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Quote:

... they do not use single-letter secret codes, which is what Gary wants. If anybody wants to use Gary's system, knock yourself out. I'm not going to force anyone to use it.


SVC, I don't think you're being very fair in how you are portraying this.

I have no agenda for "secret codes". (After all, I've proposed this for publication which is a poor way to keep a "secret". :) )

The statement that "... they do not use single-letter secret codes ..." isn't universally true, as shown by two instances published in CAPTAIN'S LOG. And if it's there, it's elsewhere, too. The problem is there is no format so everyone creates their own.

I haven't asked "... to force anyone to use it." Like all rules, players will use what works for them, ignore what doesn't, and modify good ideas that they wish to use differently.

The problem is that STAR FLEET BATTLES has provided no guidance on the issue of how to write/record option mounts. Neither (G15.4) OPTIONAL WEAPONS MOUNT nor ANNEX #8B OPTIONAL WEAPONS COST CHART makes any indication of how option mounts should be recorded or communicated.

I saw this as an item that was missing in SFB, based on the number of different ways I saw this done and the number of new players that had asked me for "the list of option codes".

Rather than just post here and say "you guys need to do this for us.", I stepped up, took my time (to keep from ADB having to use theirs) to develop a proposal, discussed it with those on this board that were interested in providing feedback, and submitted the result.

While this proposal may not be perfect, it's a framework that can be used as is or modified by ADB (or others) to suit. Or to be ignored. It's still better, in my opinion, than what we have now; Which is no guidance and everyone doing it their own way.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 12:04 am: Edit

I can't see any harm in it. I figure you either do it the default way, which seems to be what SVC regards as the way, which is to spell it out using standard abreviations in Annex 5, or use the new proposed list.

The default way will always remain a legit method.

I wonder if Annex 8B couldn't just be given a new column with these single letter codes. That would denote its use strictly for recording option mount load outs. Having a standard for single letter record keeping would be nice given that players world wide can play each other (use in SFBOL and PBEM).

By KC Grant (Kcg) on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 02:37 am: Edit

Gary, good luck - IMHO AFAICT NIH. :)

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 10:17 am: Edit

Adding an abbreviation column to Annex 8B is simple and provides a standard that seems to meet the needs of at least some group of players. I have seen this single letter notation (along with other even more esoteric names that only make sense to those that invented them) several times among tourney players so it would be good for something to be documented.

I think the error made is the assumption that every possible option needs an abbreviation. If we limit the abbreviations to those that make sense it might get a wider acceptance. We can always add the more obscure abbreviations later if it is determined they are needed.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:13 am: Edit

Adding an abbreviation column to Annex 8B is not going to happen.

I have said before. If anybody wants to use Gary's system, knock yourself out. I'm not going to force everyone to use it, and any articles we publish will (and always have) use self-evident abbreviations, not secret codes. The fact that Ph1, p1, P1, PH1 are all different is irrelevant as they all clearly mean what they clearly mean.

Gary's attempt at humor aside, the term "secret code" is one you have to look up in a new column of annex 8B compared to one that you just look at and know right away what it is.

By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:57 am: Edit

Yet I would guess that the vast majority on this board know exactly what weapons a TBR with HHgBB/PPg1F has in its option mount packages.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 01:48 pm: Edit

Andy: And if SVC were only interested in selling things to this board, that would be just fine.

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