A series of unique ships, the most well known of which would have been the Hammerfield.

Included ships could be "q ship" type raiders (ie LAF with deception panels) and other Orion solutions to the problems with piracy and available hardware.

One ship I would like to see would be a Orion with Quantum Wave Torpedos. Like they found an old cache in Gorn space. I think (based on zero playtesting) that the QWT would be an excellent Orion weapon.

By Phil Shanton (Mxslade) on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 05:33 pm: Edit

That would be cool, each ship would have it's own unique backround and history.

It would work great for PD.

And maybe a series of boosters for Fed Comm?

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 06:06 pm: Edit

Given that the playtest nickname for the QWT was 'plasma disruptor', you'd be right.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Plus, personally, I sorta wish the Gorns had chosen to use these things in the middle years period (post Paravian) against the Roms.

So the Roms would be slow and heavy hitters and the Gorns would be zipping around in the ballet. From my (very) limited understanding of these things, they'd be great for the middle range ballet.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 06:13 pm: Edit

The Powers That Be decreed otherwise.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Don't I know it. And it makes a lot of sense for the Gorns to perfect what they have (Plasma torps) rather than chucking them all for QWT.

BUT, it might be cool for at least one ship out there later to have QWT. The surprise value alone might be worth it.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:14 pm: Edit

In case you missed it, there's a unique Orion CR in the Federal Republic as well - the Throne of Ozymondas.


More unique Orion ships would be interesting - ditto for unique pirates in other areas (Omega, LMC, M81).


Gary

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:13 am: Edit

Of course everyone conveniently ignores two rather important points:

1) "Unique raiders" is usually a code word for "ridiculously upgunned raiders". Using the Hammerfield as an example of a "unique raider" is actually a BAD idea.

2) Orions have option mounts. In effect, every raider is already a "unique raider" due to the number of options available for weapons loadout.

Unless your proposal can overcome both of these issues, the idea of "unique raiders" isn't going to go very far.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 03:08 am: Edit

If the designs involve merely adding weapons and power or prefilled option mounts, it would bore me. If the design has some oddball difference that makes sense, I would like it. The closest concept to what I would prefer in SFU is the Tholian Old Galaxy pirate: not a powerhouse but wonderfully strange.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 09:52 am: Edit

Mike West, I agree to a certain degree.

But for example:

A Large Freighter with ARMED freighter front end (ie weapons but not engines) with a couple PFs carried inside behind hidden hatches on the pods. This ship has a couple LASH skids for incresed firepower and APR. Ship has a cloak. So this thing can enter into orbit/ convoys and make its play at an appropriate time.

A LR built around a G torp. It would be missing some of the main phaser battery. Perhaps it has phasers in the wing mounts to compensate.

A Armed freighter with some sort of unique pods (say 6 fighters and a "half strength" Q ship armnament.

The point here is the uniqueness, NOT the amount of raw power.

BUT, the Hammerfield is probably the best example of a legendary unique ship.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Mike West: Yeah, that's the thing that I was going to say. The "Option Mounts" are not quick-change "sockets" like on an HDW; they're just representing the vast array of possible configurations for an Orion warship.

By Reid Hupach (Gwbison) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 01:13 pm: Edit

I suggested earlier a unique Orion Q ship.

A large freighter where most of the Cargo has been replaced by Batteries. Where the other cargo was are 8 tractor beams, two in the front and two in the rear of each cargo bay.

Its mission to join a convoy at or near a starbase, travel with it to the ambush site. When the escort goes off to fight the Pirate ship(s) he does a hard tractor lock on as many freighters as he can and holds them to keep them from scattering till the escort is destroyed and the Raiders can close.

I call it the Octopus.

By Jonathan Biggar (Jonb) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 01:25 pm: Edit

I'd call that a !Q ship.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 03:03 pm: Edit

For that matter, you could just use a ship = to a tholian web tender with a few extra tractor beams and no web devices.

I'd suggest that APR is a MUCH better deal for you than batteries. If all you have is batts, after the first turn you will be sucking wind (the freighters SHOULD be fighting your attempts). The alternative issue is allocation flexibililty in auctions during the turn (as opposed over the break).

PLUS, if you are close enough to so many ships that you NEED 8 tractors, you will be taking a lot of return fire at close range.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 03:25 pm: Edit

I'd think that just about any seeker-heavy race would make better use of that ship than the Orions would. It's a Portable Black Hole!

The Orions already have got a "fake Q-ship"; the Free Traitor. (that's what blow-off panels are for, after all.)

The "octopus" isn't really a useful idea, because if the pirate is at tactical range (same SFB mapsheet as the convoy) then the freighters can't run fast enough to escape. If the pirate defeats the escort he can run down the freighters at his leisure. And if the pirate can't defeat the escort then the 'octopus' has got some problems!

This is kind of going back to a lengthy discussion we've had before where Steve Petrick outlined the typical pirate operation in the SFU, which involves a lone "pirate ship" (which doesn't necessarily have to be a "raider" type, it could well be an armed freighter or even a skid-equipped freighter) attacking a lone freighter target. The Orion drops a shield and beams over enough boarding parties to subdue the target--which, as often as not, gives up without a fight to avoid making the Orions mad. An Orion who attacks a convoy will generally prefer to destroy the escort and then drag one freighter away to molest it in peace, rather than trying to grab all the goodies at once and ending up with nothing.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 03:44 pm: Edit

AHH, the saga of the Weary Donkey versus MaJiC in his LR the Love Ewe.

I STILL laugh whenever I think about those names.

NOTE: SVC said he might (emphasis on might) be adding some CVE skids as part of a R module. HAH!

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 05:18 pm: Edit

So instead of APR and tractors, we have APR, transporters, barracks and just enough weapons to knock shields down. When the CR looms on the horizon and the freighters form their tight scrum, the pirate dumps a few BPs onto each.

Aaaaactually, one wonders why the pirate freighter doesn't simply blow the escort to bits while both are moving at high warp and the escort is hence very vulnerable.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 05:31 pm: Edit

I don't think you can FIRE or defend in High warp.

Besides, then the various scenarios with hidden pirate ships would be boring.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Jim: Why not just do that with a regular old Armed Freighter, or the aforementioned Free Traitor? Heck, be a Tramp Small Steamer full of pirates instead of passengers.

By Reid Hupach (Gwbison) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 09:22 pm: Edit

What I was thinking is that the frieghters usually clump up as the Raider goes after the escort. After the escort dies isusually when the freighters split in different directions That is when you slap on the tractors and hold on. When the raider gets there the freighters have fewer options and you can capture more.

This ship works better when their is more than 1 raider also.

I had thought of APR instead of batteries but dont they show up better to a scan. therefore giving you away easier.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 11:10 pm: Edit

What is the biggest problem for Orions attacking a convoy? Escaping with enough loot. This makes it easier if you have a commando ship to transport troops aboard to capture the freighter instead of only being able to grab one per LR.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Michael - to make a substantial difference, your infiltrator freighter has to have a lot of transporters. A normal armed freighter or Free Traitor has only 1 transporter. One BP (or even 4 at non-combat rates) isn't going to make much of a dent.

Realistically, you want to be able to put at least 6 BPs on a freighter to capture it at all quickly, and do this to most of the freighters in the convoy before they know what's happened. So I think the minimum is a small Q-ship with the 10 cargo replaced by 2 barracks, 6 transporters and 1 APR. That allows you to drop 2 combat and 4 non-combat troops onto each of 2 freighters twice.