This is the first part of something I've been working on for a while. I'll probably post the rest of it as time goes by, but I might submit it for a Captain's Lot at somepoint, although I know there's a lot of info that isn't "in public" right now so it probably conflicts with other materials.

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From Piracy and the nebulous state, A policy paper.

A popular conception of the Orion Pirates is of stateless individuals, roaming the spaceways in their starships, raiding and looting, and occasionally building shipyards and bases fromwhich spring, full grown, the ships to continue their piracy.
It is a popular conception, yet one that is completely wrong, and one that all to many fleet officers adhere, at least subconsciously.
In reality, the Orion “pirates” are in fact a state, or group of states, no less real for being far more nebulous then the major existing empires. They have thir own borders, foreign policy and conflicts, all coexisting with the more obvious conflicts seen in the battles between the Federation and Klingon empire, and especially in periods such as the Andromedan war, the General war in places, or the ISC conquest, became the de facto state power in many regions.


Misconceptions:

Before discussing the nature of the Orions, it is important to consider several aspects to their existence.
1. The Orion pirates have nothing like the “safe areas” true national governments have. Any base or colony can be defeated by even the smallest national government, and arrangements with said governments are fraught with peril, as the WYN take over of the Orion Shipyards proved. Thus, the amount of infrastructure located in any one area must both be limited and easy to move—at least for the most vital components. This is the reason, more so then economics, why the Orions do not use FRD’s or Phaser 4’s—such items, once located, would be sure to be destroyed and thus the economic cost is to great.
2. The cost of even the smallest ship is often more than even a prosperous colony can afford. Constructiong a light raider, to say nothing of the larger cruiser and battlecruiser class warships found in Orion service would require, at the very least, the economic power equal to several major planets or provinces. The often stated “fact” that the orions gain their materials and money from raids on freighters or the Orion Enclave miss the fact that first of all, most freighters carrying the kind of military hardware used on warships are escorted, and secondly, the Orion Enclave needs to be paid for it’s material and is also under observation.
This does not mean that they do not gain a large amount of resources from piracy, just that those resources, in and of themselves are insufficient to explain the extent and nature of the Orion pirate society. To understand that, we must explore their true economic basis.

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By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 08:33 pm: Edit

So you're saying the Orions don't have the infra-structure to exist? So how do they exist then?

Also can you watch your "then" where a "than" should be. I mean I'm a really bad speller but it's not a thing that spell checkers pick up (although gramma checkers probably do).

By Charles Gray (Cgray45) on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 03:57 pm: Edit

Colonies:

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The three legged stool:

The pirate economy depends on three components—colonies, piracy, and secondary criminal activity. During Wartime, piracy also involves privateering operations, which may or may not also include traditional piracy.

Colonies:

It may surprise some, but the Orion pirate cartels are major advocates of colonization. Not only does it create more traffic for them to prey upon, it increases the number of places where the full authority of the law does not reach.
In general, Orion pirate policy is not to strike a colony so hard that it fails. They engage in a practice of “colony husbandry” insuring that they raid no region so heavily that the colonies are abandoned, thus destroying the trade they feed off of. This is, in fact one of the major duties of the Cartel lord, to insure that independent ships do not destroy a regions profitability. For that reason, pirate raids seldom target items that would destroy the colony outright—the refined ore will be taken, but the mining equipment remains—so long as the mines remain the Orions can always come back later for another load. A destroyed mine provides nothing more once it’s been looted the first time.
But beyond these, the Orions own, directly or indirectly, many colonies—they provide easy ways to dispose of stolen goods, to purchase desired goods, to provide havens for retired or injured soldiers—in fact they serve as a network of bases scattered across every empire. These colonies come in two flavors—indirectly controlled colonies and direct cartel possessions.
Indirectly owned colonies are seldom openly controlled by the pirates, and in fact in many cases the majority of the citizens don’t know about their “silent partners”, although in many cases at least a few of the rulers do. They provide havens in the sense of having conveniently lax regulations, little cooperation with police services and providing refuges in remote parts of the worlds where sensor grids are not maintained—and of course usually the Orions have abundant computer taps into the official computer systems.
These worlds also provide ways to “dispose” of stolen goods, after they have been purged of any distinguishing marks, or to store them long enough for the “heat” to die down. If discovered, the Orions simply leave, pulling out their personel, in the knowledge that few empires will be overly harsh—because they also benefit from the colonies existence.

Directly owned worlds are a different matter, and are usually secret—a goal that seems easier to attain when one remembers just how many thousands of worlds there are across the galaxy. Normally located in areas where local steller geography makes sensor scans difficult and in a few cases (limited by the time of travel) in the “off map” areas beyond the generally accepted bounds of the alpha octant empires these worlds, save for the Orion Enclave itself, form the majority of orion manufacturing and ship building capability.
These worlds are rather different from the “official” colonies. For one thing, a variety of measures are taken to insure that the differences between these colonies and others are not obvious to passing ships. Orbital infrastructure is usually absent and construction equipment, especially of the sort of components that no legitimate colony needs, is kept hidden, quite often in underground locations, linked by under ground passageways to the surface colony. While not impossible to detect, these locations are easy to conceal from anything but the most determined search. Communication systems are kept to landline or tight beam, avoiding leaving a messy radio signature. To a ship casually dropping by, the colony appears to be anyone of a thousand other colonies, although such colonies are more prevelant in the regions that are either not traveled, or are not occupied by nations (such as the Klingons) who look dimly upon independent colonies. The Federation for that reason is a mecca for such colonies.

These worlds do not provide the majority of Orion construction capability although some feed components into the shipbuilding sector. What they do provide is a number of friendly R&R and low level support bases—bases where for the most part ships don’t have to disguise themselves, although as always, operational security is very tight. The “Gypsy phenomena” (see below), makes these colonies very tight knit and hard to infiltrate into larger imperial governments. In addition, a certain amount of their “profit” which normally would go to higher level governments, goes to the owning cartel—which of course has two advantages—first of all, the cartel doesn’t have to steal this money, and secondly, it is “legal” and thus easily used to purchase goods from the larger society.
The last form of orion “colony’ is a ship building colony, where ships are constructed—these colonies are usually temporary in nature, and built with a view towards a swift evacuation—it is impossible to disguise the construction of ships and any navy or police service considers the chance to destroy half built hulls on the ground infinitely preferable to destroying completed and hostile ships. While some orion ships are built in space, usually near a base station, this is rarer then one might think—the orions tend to be very sensitive about the dangers of concentrating too many assets in one place, after all, although some ships, such as the rare BCH’s, cannot be easily built on a planet, and thus require deep space infrastructure.

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By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 07:11 pm: Edit

This needs to be done up as a CapLog article.

By Charles Gray (Cgray45) on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 09:35 pm: Edit

I'm kinda aiming for that, but the information on the Orions is rather diffuse throughout the various facets of hte SFB universe, so I wanted to have as much comment as possible on it. This is also working out the background for a few stories I have in mind.

more:

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Pirate loyalty:

One aspect of the Orion Pirates that often confuses outside observers is their loyalty. After all, every police officer, from the Klingons to the Federation can tell you that most criminals are only too happy to sell out their brethren, and they certainly don’t keep suicide bombs with them to avoid the possibility. The idea that Orion ships are slave galleys runs aground on a simple fact—the Klingon’s who have security systems designed to avoid that every possibility still suffer mutinies—something the Orions do not (or at least no more than say the Federation does).
The answer is simple—the Orions are not a criminal group in the sense that most groups are, in that they are not a part of the society they act against. Rather, they are a society that preys on other socities, which it sees as exterior to itself. Like many ethnic groups of Earth say, they have developed a system of ethics which applies to themselves, but does not apply to “outsiders”. Thus, the orion pirates scheme among each other, but very seldom betray each other to outside forces, according to a system of ethics that phrased differently would be familier to any star fleet officer, or Klingon officer, if you replace, “Klingon Empire” or “The Federation” with “The orion Cartels”. An Orion “pirate” sees himself very much in the same way as a member of a culture that takes care of him and values his contribution, and deserves his loyalty. Ironically, trying to kill a Cartel lord and take his place is more acceptable then betraying him to the authorities.
Beyond this, there is the fact that this group loyalty makes the Orion’s, with the possible exception of the ISC and Federation, the most multi-ethnic organization in the Alpha Octant. With the exception of the Andromedans, and the likely Exception of the Tholians, the Orions number members of every ethnic group and creed among their colonies and ships. Even at the height of the general war, many orion ships included Klingon, Human, Lyran, Kzinti and Gorn crew members and officers, evidently operation with little friction. Once again, the corporate loyalty to the Orion ideal overrode national loyalty, with the added note that the Orion pirate Cartells seem singularly uninterested in what religion their members follow, with examples of nearly every creed found in the Alpha Octant being found on Orion ships. (Cf: The Log of the Freighter “James Drake” which was accosted by an Orion CR in Y 150. No cargo was removed, and in fact it turned out that a valued crew member had been exposed to radiation and had requested that last rights be administered by a member of the Reformed Catholic Church, if possible. One such member was traveling on the freighter and administered the rites. Perhaps coincidentally, the “James Drake” was never molested by pirates for the remainder of it’s ten years in service).

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By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 08:46 am: Edit

"With the exception of the Andromedans, and the likely Exception of the Tholians"

You might consider Hydrans too.

I wouldn't consider the ISC to be more diverse than the Klinks. Orions probably are MORE Diverse than the Feds since they can draw on all the races.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 09:49 am: Edit

Hydrans are certainly included in the Orion pirates. Given the power and politics of the Merchant Guilds of the Kingdom, the Orions were likely initially welcomed with open arms, by certain factions anyway...

By Ken Humpherys (Pmthecat) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Andy, what do you mean 'Initially'?
Some of those Merchant Guilds probably are key members of the Daven Cartel. They definitely are the Cartel's best customers(phaser-G's are a popular weapon.)

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:24 pm: Edit

How could Hydrans work aboard the Orion ships?

As in atmospheres and such.

I can see "rogue" Hydran guild ships JOINING the Orions out of convenience.

I know there are regular O2 races in Hydran space that are represented in their parliment/ ministries. Comething in CL 35 IIRC.

By Larry E. Ramey (Hydrajak) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Ummm...

In like force fields and stuff. Its STAR TREK DUDE!

The engineering bay is set up as Methan environment.

Just don't let the O2 env and the CH4 env mix.... would be "bad"

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Larry,

The problem with your suggestion is that imposes a non-trivial operating cost on the pirates. In strictly cost/benefit terms, would an Orion ship gain enough by including some Hydrans in a primarily non-Hydran crew to justify the increased complexity and expense necessitated by the life support requirements? It strikes me as unlikely.

I'm with Mike Grafton on this one. I could see Orion ships crewed by rogue Hydrans, but mixed Hydran/non-Hydran crews are much more problematical. I suppose one (rare) exception might be for a Hydran with remarkable skills in some area, say as a Legendary Weapons Officer or Legendary Ehgineer. It might be worthwhile for an Orion Captain or Cartel Lord to make the necessary alterarions to the life supoort systems, in order to gain the Hydran's rare skills. But I don't think "ordinary" Hydrans would bring enough advantage to justify the cost of those alterations.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Um... Environmental Suits (if even that much is needed - they may just require breathing apparatus), combined with personal quarters that are "climatized."

By Larry E. Ramey (Hydrajak) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Do you think Fusion Beams or Hellbores are designed to work in Oxidizing environments? No, they are engineered for reducing environments. So if an Orion has Hydran weapons in the option mounts he ALREADY has species specific areas of the ship. Fusion Beam access hatches are also probably 1 foot off the ground designed to be used by people with tentacles.


"Ordinary" Hydrans are worth about 4 Klingons, so you figure it out.

By Jonathan Biggar (Jonb) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 05:18 pm: Edit

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Do you think Fusion Beams or Hellbores are designed to work in Oxidizing environments? No, they are engineered for reducing environments.

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By Larry E. Ramey (Hydrajak) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 05:28 pm: Edit

The outer parts yeah. I'm thinking the control surfaces on the inside.

You gotta make them out of wildly different stuff.

I shudder to think how the Hydrans even make things like electrical cable.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Larry,

Maybe, but I'm not convinced. If parts of the hellbore system are environmentally incompatible with an oxygen atmosphere and need to be isolated from it (a plausible assumption), it strikes me as easier to have an Orion/human/Klingon/Kzinti/pick-your-favorite-oxygen-breathing-race engineer or technician put on an environmental suit when he actually has to work on the mechanism, than to have a Hydran engineer or technician who would need environmental protection at all times.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Yeah, but if the control surfaces only work in a CH₄ enviroment then you must have a whole room at Hydran normal atmosphere and once you've got one room opperating that way, why not a bunch of compartments and thus have Hydran staff!?!

By David Crew (Catwholeaps) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:23 pm: Edit

Larry: How to Hydrans make electrical cable? Heck, how did the proto-savage Hydrans, floating around in a gas giant with only their tentacles and teeth actually get ANYWHERE up the technological scale? It isn't like there are rocks and lumps of metal just floating around, waiting to be smelted into metallic things (like starships) once you invent fire...

By Nikolaus Athas (Nycathis) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:26 pm: Edit

Hmmm interesting thought there David.

How can you have fire in a Methane/Ammoniate Atmosphere anyway? No Oxygen means no way of burning per se.

I can only postulate that the Hydrans must have developed chemically based heat sources rather than oxidizing (fire) heat sources.

But to be able to make a sustained chemical heat source for the tempratures needed to melt most metals given the surrounding environment boggles the imagination.

Unless.....

AH I understand how they did it - the Hydrans are unique in being the only known race that progressed technologically from a stone age (snow age?) culture directly to nuclear power!

No WONDER they have fusion based weponry!!! They are simply performing the Technological equivalent of throwing fire hardened sticks at us!!

/grin

By Jon Berry (Laz_Longsmith) on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:31 pm: Edit

From the Timeline here on the website;

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-Y980 (Date Approximate): The Spirit Kings contact the Hydrans and take them into space as “employees”.

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-Y25 (Date Approximate) The Old Kings return their Klingon starship crews to Klinshai (and other starship crews to their own home planets), abandon some of their obsolete or inoperative equipment in various locations, and leave for parts unknown. At about the same time, the Spirit Kings disappeared, leaving the Hydrans in possession of low-technology starships.

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By David Crew (Catwholeaps) on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 01:22 am: Edit

Jon: No.

Why did the spirit kings uplift non-sentient gas bags? Were they really THAT starved of suitable candidates? Alternatively, why did the Hydrans evolve intelligence (before being uplifted by the spirit kings) when they cannot reasonably manipulate their native environment in any way?

...for that matter - nearly all wars are fought over resources. Exactly what resources do the Hydrans and the Klingons share that cause them to fight one another so badly?

If the Hydrans came into Sol system and said 'Don't mind us, we just want your gas giants!' would we earthlings really complain?

Oh, of course... the Hydrans want WATER and the rock-bound Klingons wouldn't give it to them...

On topic if you must: What cargos of the Hydrans do the rock-bound Orions raid and sell? Why do the Hydrans want these cargos? If fusion beams have trouble working on Orion ships, how does the successful Orion raider sell Hydran DVD players to his Klingon fence without them just exploding?

By Charles Gray (Cgray45) on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 04:30 am: Edit

One problem with this is there is some... seemingly contradictory source information-- for example one of the early captain's logs had a talk between a captured FEderation police cutter captain and some Orion captains-- on in which, to put it mildly, secrecy about Orion practices wasn't very important.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:28 pm: Edit

WTF?!?!? The Hydrans got warp-tech ala the Klinks?

And I always thought the Hydrans lived on super-terrestrial planets roughly the size of Terra, just with a methane-based atmosphere.

The idea that they 'evolved' on a GAS GIANT is ridiculous, given their known physiology.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:41 pm: Edit

Unless the atmosphere is more or less bouyant so they wouldn't be smooshed by the Gees

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:56 pm: Edit

No, if they were 'buoyant' they would be MUCH larger, if not very tough.

Also, a gas-giant evolved methane-breather is probably going to be the most 'alien' creature, MENTALLY, than anything else. The Andromedans would be easier to figure out.

Best example of gas-giant methane-breathers would be Travellers' Jgd-Il-Jagd.....