Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through August 14, 2002	25		08/14 02:34am
	Archive through August 15, 2002	25		08/15 11:58am

Sorry about that, I did misinterpret that rule. My next question would be why would the Romulan ship activate his veiling device? Since it has no warp engines, wouldn't it be better to just go on passive fire control and get the +5 hexes of range added without using a device? It would be able to launch a plasma torp if the Gorn voided its WW from beyond five hexes or it could fire it's lasers at range zero at the gorn. I don't have the Y rules in front of me, what other benefits does the Veiling device give?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Kevin McCollum:

Uhm, which rule specifically are you referring to? The rules on passive fire control do not provide a benefit of plus five to the range for someone shooting at you (D19.11), but specifically note that you do not gain the plus five hexes for a cloaked target.

The Veiling Device is an intermediate stage between the Masking Device and the full Cloaking Device. The Major benefit the Veiling device does NOT give versus the cloak is that the table in (G13.37) is not used to further degrade weapons fire at the Veiled ship. Other than that, a veil is pretty much a Cloak. The Masking device is, of course, much weaker.

By Kevin M. McCollum (Sfbl5r) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Steve, read D19.33, a ship without warp engines and on passive fire control (for one full turn) does have five hexes added to the effective range when firing at the PFC unit.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Kevin,

Your seem to be confused about who needs to have lock-on.

If I'm firing at you, I need a lock-on to you to do it normally. It doesn't matter what your ship is doing. Your ship can do things that degrade my ability to fire, generate ECM, erratic maneuvers, etc. Being under passive fire control for 32+ impulses is one of those

The cloak, and presumably the veil, are different fish because they degrade or kill the lock-on. I'm notup on the veil, so take that into account.

By Kevin M. McCollum (Sfbl5r) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 02:06 pm: Edit

No, I know who needs a lockon. The whole point of this scenario is to show a warp capable gorn ship can pretty much dominate a sublight romulan ship but approaching under cover of a WW so the gorn won't have lockon or be able to fire any weapons until it gets to range zero. If it chooses to void WW before getting to that range, the romulan ship will be able to launch (if range is greater than 4) or fire (if range is less than 6). The veil apparently doesn't do a whole lot of good and I suggest the romulan simply goes to passive and waits for the Gorn to make a move. All of these tactics are null and void if the gorn is NOT approaching under WW protection.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Kevin. D19.33 is a great find. That rule (the use of it) adds a whole new dynamic to the sublight Rom game. The only advantage that the Veil has over using this is that enemy units lose lock-on (no Seeking weapons; double range+5), but the ability to react more quickly to enemy actions, able to fire/bolt within 5 hexes and launch outside of 5 is significant. The only weakness is the range 3 "glory zone" for Ph-1 races and this is manageable.

BECAUSE OF THIS FINDING BY KEVIN, I AT LEAST TEMPORARILLY, WITHDRAW MY PROPOSAL.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:35 pm: Edit

D19.33...just goes to show you...been playing this game consistently since 1983, and I'm STILL learning this game!

Kudos Kevin!

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 07:53 pm: Edit

It's funny.

This came up during playtest, and I (as the major Rom playtester) quickly found D19.33, and found tactics that worked to keep the Roms dnagerous.

And 7 years later...I stumble across this topic.

Go figger.