Archive through March 06, 2008
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Memory and Shame of Lost Glory (or, the Hydrans Return):
Archive through March 06, 2008
Note that the below is NOT in standard scenario format. This message is to gather thoughts/ideas on the scenario (especially with regards to any obvious mistakes) before formalizing the scenario. I have already set up a basic version in SFB Online (offline) and begun playing it out with an eye towards when certain events should occur.
Brief Story:
In Y135, the Hydrans returned. Key to their success in reclaiming their lost territory were three items:
1. Surprise - The Klingons literally had no idea that any Hydran colonies had escaped their notice. When the Hydrans attacked, they did so in ships that rivaled anything the Klingon Empire had, and in large numbers.
2. Technology - While the Klingons had ships to rival what the Hydrans attacked with, very few were presemy in the backwater of the conquered Hydran colonies. D4 and F4 vessels were usually the most advanced ships present. Some of the more restless colonies merited the presence of a D6. Even more colonies saw a few of the earlier D3's. The bases generally were of the Early Base Station model, and set to rotate so that half of their weapon's strength was pointed directly at the planet below. The Hydrans on the other hand attacked with their newest ships, the Hunter, Lancer and Ranger classes. More importantly, the Hydrans deployed fighters for the first time in these battles, a huge surprise to the Klingons.
3. Planning and Coordination - Unknown to the Klingons, Hydran sympathizers were present on some of their vessels and the Old Colonies learned of the defenses in the areas they would be attacking first. Coordinated efforts were to be made against multiple bases, with the goals being annihilation of all Klingon forces in an area, preventing the enemy from learning the numbers, and more importantly, the type, of Hydran ships.
This scenario represents one such battle:
Basic Outline:
2 Basic Maps connected short end to short end.
Map B contains a Hydran subjugated colony with a Klingon YBS in orbit and a D3.
There are also 4 other Klingon vessels in the system, a D4 and three F4s. They have picked up warp traces from the direction of (unknown to them) the Hydran Old Colonies and have moved to investigate with orders to eliminate any threat to the YBS. They are at the short end of Map A closest to the YBS.
The D3, having a much slower operating speed when arming weapons, was left behind at the base in case the incoming ships proved hostile and broke through the defenders.
Three Early Year Hydran ships have arrived at the other short map edge. 1 x Grenadier (Lost Glory), 2 x Voltigeur (Memory, Shame). Their goal is to draw off the Klingon defenders, and cause an initial report of 'Early Years' vessels invading, if any report is sent.
After a time, the real attacking force will arrive, dropping onto Map B on the appropriate long edge. This will consist of a Lancer and a Ranger, carrying the maximum number of Stinger 1's (I assume for this era, replace the Stinger H's with Stinger 1's?) and their goal is to destroy the base, any ships in the immediate vicinity and then mop up the ships drawn off by the older era Hydran vessels. The Hydrans know they have to move quickly... as intelligence indicated a D6 in the area.
Each side has some specific orders:
Klingon:
D3 - May not disengage unless the YBS is destroyed.
Klingon Map A Force - May not move back onto Map B until two Hydran vessels of the initial attack force are crippled and the third has taken internal damage.
All - No Klingon ship may disengage UNTIL it has gained a minimum level of information on one of the 'new' Hydran vessels. No Klingon ship may launch drones or fire on Hydran fighters until close enough to identify difference from an admin fighter, or until more than 4 are launched from the Ranger, or one of the fighters takes an action that an admin shuttle can not.
Victory Conditions - Gain information to determine type of ships faced (whether treating as a monster, or using the Tac Intel guidelines for how close the ships to be is up for determination and discussion). Disengage one vessel that 'personally' has gained the necessary information. While a vessel can not disengage until it's gained minimum information about one of the new SHIPS, the victory level will increase if they also gain information about the fighters.
Alternatively, if the Hydrans take too long in achieving their victory conditions, more Klingon forces will arrive (a D6 or possibly even a D7) and it could become possible for the Klingons to win using Standard Victory Conditions.
Hydran:
Initial Attacking Force (Early Year Ships) - All three ships must achieve Range 8 or less before the main attacking force (RN + LN) begin their attack, OR internal damage must have been done to one Klingon vessel.
RN + LN - May not enter the map until the turn after the Initial Attacking Force achieves its above goal, OR Turn 4.
Victory Conditions - Standard Victory Conditions except there are penalties rather than bonuses if the Klingons disengage (note that by the restrictions in the Klingon's section that this by definition means the Klingon vessel will have gained some minimum level of information on a new Hydran vessel). Additionally, the Hydran will have to weigh the use of their fighters carefully. While the Klingons are restricted in their actions towards the fighters, if they manage to disengage with information that the Hydrans not only have new ships but are also deploying fighters, their victory level will increase.
Note that the restrictions on Map A's initial forces are designed to help the Hydrans as the Klingons could otherwise keep out of close range. The hope is that the time pressure of the requirement to cause real damage to the Hydran ships before being able to help out the YBS (or, more likely, to use it to distract the Hydrans while the Klingons gain the needed information) will bring the Klingons in closer than they otherwise would if they 'had all the time in the world'. The Hydrans for their part have the threat of a 'real' Klingon warship showing up if the initial Hydrans just try to keep out of range at the beginning of the battle.
I don't plan to use any form of ground combat in the scenario as the Klingons feel that the YBS and local ships are more than enough to keep the populace in line.
Thoughts?
It strikes me that an LN and RN (with fighters) should be able to trash a YBS and D3 with consummate ease, assuming that I correctly recall a YBS only having Phas-1s. Given the static nature of the defences and the slow D3 which is not allowed to disengage, simply launch fighters and shuttles and let them close with the base in front of the LN/RN. Most of them will probably die, but both base and D3 will probably be trashed with the hydran ships only taking shield damage. (hydran ships follow in after the fighters and unload grief). Without being able to overload or having UIM, the D3 is pretty toothless.
Said RN/LN combo without fighters can now go on to slaughter the incoming D7 (which only has slow drones and F-racks). At best, the D7 will be able to cripple the LN unless it simply refuses to engage, resulting in a retrograding D7 and hydrans not chasing.
Note that the fighters can be protected on their approach with significant EW help from the relatively powerful Hydran ships. IIRC, EY ships/bases cannot even generate more than ?4ECCM. With small target modifiers to boot, any shot by the Base/D3 against fighters at ranges 9+ will be more or less wasted (slight exception - DSRs hitting on 1-2 for a mere 3pts). Likewise, the Hydran ships could choose to be more agressive and use the power for ECM on thier ships
Hidden in my ramblings above are that the Victory Conditions for the Klingons will in no way be based on the Standard (or modified) Victory Conditions. This base is going to fall and if the Klingons stay to fight, it will be a disaster.
What the balance will try for, is successful information gathering on at least one new Hydran ship (bonus for both and/or fighters) and a successful disengagement by one ship with the information. Most likely with the way the scenario is set up, this would have to be the D7 which means the Klingons somehow have to keep their original force intact until it shows up. (If the Hydrans ever are able to disengage and 'win' before the reinforcing ship shows up, by destroying all ships or at least staying out of effective detection range before disengaging, the scenario would be over).
Now, it may not be possible with the forces I had above (and my original notes had TWO Lancers). ;) Perhaps dropping one of the newer Hydran ships to a Hunter would balance things better?
Alternatively, I could replace the D3 with a C4 that basically was acting as a 'museum'. Its light could be seen by the colony as it passes overhead, a symbol of the Klingon might, but many of its systems are inactive. There are lots of ways to balance the second half of the scenario, but I want it to still greatly favor the Hydrans militarily while giving the Klingons a chance to disengage ships that gain some information.
The "Historical" result of the few opening battles that started this way would be that the Hydrans achieved complete surprise. The Klingons knew something was wrong, probably suspected that the Hydrans had come back (or perhaps by attacking the juncture of Lyran and Klingon space, they sowed enough confusion by making both sides think the other was attacking in the region). This delay in the Klingons (and Lyrans) realizing that they were facing very strong, new technology Hydran vessels, was necessary in allowing the Hydrans to recover their territory so easily. ie, this is a Hydran Victory, which by its nature is a military one.
The non-historical result would be that a Klingon ship escapes with information on these new vessels and fighters, eliminating confusion that the Lyrans could be involved, and permitting a stronger response than the historical one, perhaps at the least retaining some of the territory gained from the Hydrans.
Do the victory conditions require a single ship to acquire all the information? The YBS can gather information quickly on its own (especially if the base gets science modules) but Klingon ships have a tough time at it.
I doubt a D3 would still be in service then. Maybe move the D4 into localised base coverage, assign a barracks module to the base and add a planet that the base is covering. Add some E3s to the mobile forces. 2 E3s and 2 E4s would be about as capable a force plus few scenarios bother with the E3 in the disruptor configuration.
Hmm, according to the background information of Module Y, the D3 was still in service in backwater regions. Still, given I'm beginning to view the battle as taking place near the Lyran/Klingon border when the alliance between the two wasn't officially formalized (?), it might make sense to have a couple of smaller 'Middle Years' vessels present like an E3.
There will indeed be a planet, but I really want to avoid ground defenses as much as possible.
The ship that escapes with the information needs to be the one that gathers the information, though I may allow each ship to have half the information the base gathers (jamming from the Hydran ships degrades the information). That way the Hydran does have to hit the base quickly rather than ignoring it to focus on the ships.
Probably I'll allow the Klingon player to keep level of information secret for his ships so that the Hydran won't know how much information each vessel has (the more I think over the information gathering section the more I think it'll be similar to 'research on monsters' rather than 'Tac Intel'. Tac Intel seems based on the assumption that one knows about the classes (and especially the technology) being fought and these Hydran ships have never been seen before.
Keep the suggestions coming. Even if I don't use specific ones, they spark ideas...
Gathering science requires getting VERY close to the target being researched.
Being very close to Hydrans is death.
I'm not sure how much science a ship can gather by itself without being destroyed.
The YBS only has 2 Ph-1, 1 DISR, 4 Ph-2 and 2 Ph-3 in various arcs. The MAXIMUM damage output at range 1 off the #1 or #4 shield is 35. Off any other shield is 49. The MAXIMUM damage a D3 can put out at range 1 is 20 off the #1 and 30 off any other shield. If the Ranger charges the YBS and the Lancer charges the D3 each should be able to kill their target without much trouble at all AND be able to deny them the chance to get lab info and run. Then it just becomes a matter of cleanup of the D-4 and F-4s.
The only problems with this is:
1. The YBS does have Special Sensors and can loan itself and the D-3 ECM. (Not much, but a +1 is a +1.)
2. How close is the YBS to Map A? Or to the edge of the map that the Ranger and Lancer come in on?
3. How many points of lab information is "Minimum Information"?
4. How big is the planet the Hydrans can approach behind? And if the YBS is on the side of the planet that the Hydrans approach from, can they launch more than 4 fighters without the Klingon ships on Map A being freed from their firing restrictions upon the fighters? (Since they would not see them on the other side of the planet.)
5. How long is "too long"?
Michael: You are ommitting the D3's drones. Unlikely to be that useful but at least there is a chance of getting some internals.
Thanks for all the comments. I've skimmed them and will, hopefully, continue playtesting my 'base' scenario (ie, the one I'm currently working with) but will try to incorporate some suggestions.
I've only been able to skim tonight and as is my usual mode when responding in such a manner, the last post gets the response (the rest will wait til tomorrow):
Richard: I sincerely doubt the D3 would get a drone hit on a Hydran (unless said Hydran didn't mind). The best that could be hoped for would be soaking off a couple of phaser shots from the first pass. In the 'EY' portion that opens the game, a Hydran took two hits by drones, but only because they were intent on getting to Range 1 and using all weapons on the Klingon (and the drones hit shields that wouldn't be facing the Klingon the following turn).
Remember also, these are Speed 8. I'd find it hard to justify giving a backwater area Type II or Type V drones.
Speed 8/12 drones are an irrelevance unless the Hdyrans are stupid enough to somehow let themselves get tractored and also unload their wad.
Does the YBS even have enough power to get the ECM/ECCM levels competetive with the Hydrans?
Depends on what you want to do. After housekeeping and powering both sensors it has 11 power and 4 batteries left. If you presume WS-III then you only have to pay power to fire the disruptor or to recharge any phasers you fire.
Now, if you play that the Klingons don't know that the new Hydran ships can do 6 EW, then you generate 11 EW points to be split up as 7 ECM for the YBS and 4 for the D-3, with the D-3 doing 3 for himself. This will force the Hydran ships to use their "max" EW points (4) to just get a +1 and then you use the batteries on both "ships" for 1 more EW point for a +2 (i.e. Make him use his power how YOU want him to, not how he wants to). It would be a surprise at this point in time for the Hydran ships to also use their batteries for 1 more EW point and a separate bit of information that the Hydrans are using modern warships (5 EW points).
Now, 4 power isn't so bad for a Ranger, but for a Lancer, it's a sizable investment. The Hydran ships may or may not want to use 5 EW and just shoot through a +2. However, I do believe that you can drop EW points at any time. If you burn the batteries at the instant of fire to get a +1 and then immediately drop it, will the Klingons know it if the ship doesn't survive the impulse/turn? Normally you would know because of the Tactical Intelligence rules, however you may want to put in a special scenario rule about it, unless you want the Hydrans to be firing through a +2 for deception purposes.
Robert. Speed 12 drones are General Availability in Y120.
I wouldn't worry so much about giving away stuff with too much EW. By the time of these battles, the Klingons already have modern ships and are starting to upgrade their Y-ships to NG ships.
The three aspects that would need the most "secrecy" around are: Fusion beams, Gatling Phasers, and Sting-1 fighters, not necessarily in that order.
Hmmm, instead of the whole labbing thing, maybe the goal will simply be to have the earlier ships observe separate bits of information about the Hydran ships. (Use of Fusion Beams, Gatlings, Fighters) Will have to think about this more.
Michael Lui: Most of your questions will be answered as a result of playtesting (especially the 'too long' and 'minimum information' bits). As you say, the Hydrans should walk over the Base and D3 (if that's what I go with - I'm likely going with more of a defense force, just not sure how much). The initial setup has the planet in the center of Map B with the Hydrans approaching from the bottom (long edge) with the YBS and D3 between them and the planet. Already I think I'll put the two maps long edge to long edge and leave everything else the same instead based on my feeling of how the initial playtest is going. This makes the Hydran second attack force move a bit further, and lets the Klingon defense force get back more quickly.
I don't plan to make the planet all that large (was unable to find much information on the usual type of Hydran homeworld.. I know, Methane, but that's about it.. There are certainly methane worlds Earth sized or smaller and a 1 hex size planet prevents the trick of launching fighters on the opposite side of the planet. If said homeworlds are gas giants then I'll make it as small as possible. 
They're gas giants. There's a scenario somewhere that the Hydrans are fighting in/around a gas giant and can "land" there and survive indefinately. However, the Hydrans do have other races in their Kingdom that they could be trying to free also. These could be on normal class M worlds (i.e. 1 hex). You can still launch fighters on the other side, you just have to be careful how you do it because of the scenario rules.
Still thinking about this... Last week and weekend didn't leave enough time to play around with this like I'd hoped.
Part of me is doing this to build an appreciation for the 'old' ships. And here, I mean the ones that the average SFB player probably considers 'old' (ie, D6, pre-refit HN, LN, RN), etc. The opening will be with ships that will feel positively antiquated (the Y era ships). Then the Hydrans and Klingons should have that moment of 'YES! Now I have real ships...' when their Middle Years ships show up.
It looks like the part I really need to playtest is the battle on Map B to see how fast the YBS + defense ship(s) will get shredded. I'm beginning to like the idea of an inactive C4 (with one turn to start activation procedures before the scenario begins + of course the turns before the Hydran strike force shows up) in addition to the D3. If it turns out it's still far too easy for the Hydrans, I'll bring a more modern ship in earlier for the Klingons, but a smaller one.
The main thing I want to have happen early is for the players to have early year ships going up against their modern equivalents, and the way the scenario is designed that'll mostly be early Klingon ships against Middle Year Hydrans. The Early Year Hydrans probably won't be in very good shape to help out in the battle once the 'real ships' show up.
Michael: Thanks for the info. Yes, the Hydrans can still launch 'behind the planet', but only if the Klingons aren't in position to observe. The Klingons can probably make that somewhat difficult.
As a sub-note...
If anyone's interested in helping to playtest/kibbitz about the scenario on SFB Online, let me know. I haven't been 'online' in awhile, though I've created the scenario in the Client. Might have something close to fleshed out after the weekend.
Just an update... This scenario is likely going to get played amongst my fledgling gaming group this weekend due to one of the members leaving the following weekend 'for good' as it were (hopefully he'll have been hooked enough to go the SFB Online route).
It won't be a true playtest in that there's no way we're going to be at the stage to play with EW rules (at least generated EW). I could do it, but the other three players are various levels of newbie to both SFB and (in the case of 2) consims in general. Also since all three are new and I'm still not at the stage I was when I used to play, this is more or less a 'walkthrough' to pick up any obvious shortcomings.
The major change to the scenario as described above is that there will be an inactive C4 along with (instead of?) the D3 at the base. The C4 is normally left inactive due to maintenance issues in this region of space (reason for it being here ranges from being a remnant from the time when the Lyrans and Klingons sparred over the region's borders, or as a monument to Klingon might for those on the surface of the planet who can watch it in the night sky along with the YBS).
The Maps will be aligned like:
AAA BBB
AAA BBB
AAA BBB
The forces will be:
Stage 1 (Turn 1):
Klingon (Map A - Right edge): 1 x D4, 3 x F4
Klingon (Map B - Center, possibly 'north of center'): Class M planet, orbiting YBS, D3 and C4 (inactive)
Hydran (Map A - Bottom/South edge on left side): 1 x Grenadier, 2 x Voltigeur
Stage 2 (Turn 4 or earlier):
Hydran (Map B - Bottom edge): 1 x RN (including full load of St-1's), 1 x HN
Stage 3 (Turn 7+):
Klingon (Map B - Right edge towards top): 1 x D6
(Turn of entry determined by secret die rolls or chit pulls)
Restrictions:
Klingon Stage 1 (Map A) force: May not enter Map B or fire on any ship other than Hydran Stage 1 forces, until at least two of the Hydran Stage 1 ships are crippled and the other has taken internal damage, OR one of this force's ships are fired on by a Hydran Stage 2 ship (or fighter), OR a Hydran Stage 2 ship (or fighter) enters Map A.
All Klingons: No Klingon ship may disengage unless it has gained a certain level of scientific information on the new Hydran ships or fighters (this level does not have to be sufficient for a Klingon victory, but might be enough to lower the Hydran level of victory). They may disengage in direction A only, or by acceleration.
No Klingon ship may fire at a Hydran fighter unless it does something that reveals itself to not be an Admin shuttle, the Ranger launches more shuttles (including fighters) than it has shuttle bays, or the fighter approaches to 3 hexes or less.
Hydran Stage 1 (Map A) force: May not enter Map B until Hydran Stage 2 Force arrives.
Hydran Stage 2 (Map B) force: Arrives as a reinforcement the turn after all three Hydran Stage 1 ships achieve Range 5 or less to a Klingon ship, or cause internal damage to a Klingon ship, or on Turn 4 (whichever comes first).
Special Scenario Rule:
Once each turn, the YBS can send a communication to EACH Klingon ship within range (undetermined, probably 8 hexes or less). It specifically may not send this communication over more than one impulse in a given game turn. The game effect is that half of the YBS's current scientific information gained is added to the total for the Klingon ship. A given ship can receive this kind of transmission more than once, but the effect is not cumulative. Only the highest total from a given turn is added to the ship's scientific information total.
Example: On Turn 4, the base has gained 20 points of information when the D4 (5 total points so far), and C4 (10 points so far) are within range 8. The YBS sends transmissions to both ships. The D4 now has (5 + 10 [YBS] = 15) points of information. The C4 now has (10 + 10 [YBS] = 20). On Turn 5, the base has gathered 10 more points (30 total). The D4 is out of range the entire turn but gathers 4 more points itself (19 total). The C4 receives another transmission, after gaining 3 more points itself. Its new total is (13 + 15 [YBS] = 28).
Victory Conditions:
Hydrans: Total Victory - All Klingon forces are destroyed or captured.
Klingons: Moderate Loss to Total Victory - Based on the highest scientific information total any successfully disengaging ship achieves (Astounding Victory achieved if Hydran forces destroyed, forced to disengage or captured).
As always... thoughts welcomed.
Lets see if I got this right:
1. You made the Hydran forces smaller (Hunter instead of Lancer).
2. You increased the Klingon force (Inactive C4).
3. You're now letting the Klingons share lab information.
4. You're definitely making it a class M planet.
So:
1. You probably shouldn't do #1 AND #2 together.
2. You need to put in some rules to activate the C4 or specify that you are using the standard activation rules (wherever they are).
3. Can only the YBS make the transmissions or can the SHIPS start doing it also, especially after the YBS is destroyed?
4. The Hydrans would have gotten orbit information about the YBS above the planet so they can approach from the other side and be shielded somewhat from it's special sensors. The YBS should be in orbit "facing" either map A, North, or South. The 2nd Hydran force would enter opposite from this.
NOTE: The fusions do NOT have holding technology at this point in time.
Err, #1 isn't correct. Don't know why I got 'Hunter' in my head. Everywhere you see Hunter should be replaced by Lancer.
#2: The activation rules will likely be according to the rulebook. If the inactive C4 concept seems too unlikely, I can replace it with, as suggested, an early years ship like an E3 or some such.
#3: Only the YBS can make the transmissions. I'm viewing it as the only 'ship' capable of breaking the normal jamming any battle would have to send high quality data, massive data files (like science scans would be). In some respects this helps the Klingons (obviously) but also prevents the Hydrans from simply crippling the base and then mopping up the Klingon forces before taking care of the base. Maybe.
#4: I agree.
Note: Yes. I know.
Additional Note: I want to make the Scientific Information gathering hidden from the Hydrans. That way they won't necessarily know how close the Klingons are to having a ship with enough information to achieve a Klingon level of victory. The Hydrans should NOT feel this is a walk in a park. Militarily it would be. But if even one ship escapes with information on the new ships in the first battles, surprise is lost and the Lyrans and Klingons will be able to respond more quickly than hoped. This particular battle will represent the 'hairiest' of this first wave for the Hydrans, one in which they almost lost that element of surprise.
1 + 2: As long as it's a Lancer then the inactive C4 is not a problem.
3: Have you thought of: What if the Hydrans just go kill all of the defenders and then kill the base?
4: Let the Klingon player(s) decide which of the 3 sides the YBS is on. Depending on that and how the Hydran forces manuever it will make them think about what they're doing and why (tactics).
If you make the LAB attempts secret you will need a referee or some other method of recording what they're getting and when.
3: Yeah, I'm thinking about that one... It's the one thing that can 'break' the scenario that's immediately apparent. The obvious solution is another 'order', that the Hydrans have to kill the base before they can attack any other Klingon ship but that's way too restrictive. However, if they wait too long to kill the base, it might get enough information to tight beam to a ship (the D6 reinforcement for instance) that allows the Klingons to win. Militarily, the objective for the Hydrans is the base. While the historical surprise allowed them to win the campaign relatively easily, and while it's a GOAL to be worked towards by the attacking Hydrans, it's not the military objective. #1 is the base, #2 is the secrecy.
One possibility is to add a requirement for the Hydrans to 'disengage' into Klingon territory (for the next phase of the attack) within a certain time frame and at least the Ranger uncrippled or they lose. It seems as though the order would then work for them better if they hit the base quickly and then mop up, rather than take the chance of losing a key shield while attacking the Klingons and have to tackle the base at reduced strength (which gives the base more time to gain information) with a fresh D6 arriving soon. I obviously don't want to railroad the players TOO much so I want to create alternatives, preferably HARD alternatives to decide between.
From the standpoint of the likely military orders: "Kill the base, then mop up any survivors, but meet the fleet at location B by this time" a restriction could be placed on the Stage 2 Hydran ships that they can't move to Map A or fire on any ships on Map A (or more than so many hexes distant) until the base is destroyed. I don't know that I want to be that restrictive though (I realize that I already am for the Klingon Stage 1 force).
#4: Well, the alternative is just to have the base orbit the planet. Since the entry by the Hydrans is unknown as to exact time, the base could be in a favorable or unfavorable position to start.
With regards to lab attempts secret... I meant secret for the Hydrans. The Klingons will know their rolls (and the Hydrans will know when a roll (scan) is made, but not the actual roll). The Hydrans should be allowed to tally the possible spread (and if smart will keep track of the average possible roll for each ship). They probably should be able to detect the 'tight beam' transmissions by the base (perhaps even how much information) depending on how close they are to the base or ship receiving the information.
Yes, I'm relying on the Klingons to play 'honorably'. I'm sure of my group.
A simple alternative would be to make all rolls public but don't allow the Hydrans to keep track of the information (again, Honor System, but this can be troublesome of there's a player with very good memory of course). I personally would like to think that the players would play this scenario for the 'historical insight' and fun rather than to 'have to win at all costs' point of view. Maybe that's naive...
One relatively simple 'balancing' factor will be WHERE the planet and YBS start on Map B. Most likely they'll be placed near the boundary of F and C somewhere to start, the idea being it gives the Hydrans a longer distance to travel to get there but also force the Klingons to go further to disengage off the edge of the map once they've gained their information.
Not sure I stated specifically, but the concept for the map is 'floating as long as the planet stays on the map'. We'll see how that works...
Actually, the only way to keep the Hydrans from killing off the ships first is to use a third map. Any good military commander will "adjust" his orders to fit their tactical situation. As it is, the base can't go anywhere, but if they have an empty map between them they will use the time to kill the base and then go after the other ships. As long as the D6 doesn't show up until after the fighters are back on board the ships, the Hydrans will use the time to fix themselves up on the way to map "A". BTW the maps would be ABC with the 1st Hydran force on "A" and the base on "C".
You may also want to have the Hydran Y Era ships as part of their victory conditions. Possibly to preserve them if possible. Maybe have 2 sets of victory conditions, one for Hydrans and one for the Klingons. The Hydrans achieve a minimum level of victory for killing the base and preventing information getting out (That's their real objective anyway) and their victory level goes up for each EY ship that survives.
That way there aren't any "artificial" reasons for the Klingon ships to stay on map "A". If the Hydran EY ships are part of the Hydran victory levels you can bet the Klingons WILL stay around to kill them if they can. Also, if the Hydran EY ships may not disengage until after the base is dead, then that gives the Klingons more opportunity to hunt them down. AND making the first Hydran force stick around for the base to die is not artificial either, it's part of the battleplan to keep the Klingons away from the base, unfortunately the only way to keep the Klingons occupied is to give them targets to shoot at.
If you have enough players, give one player the Klingons fighting the EY Hydrans, one the Hydran EY ships, one the Klingon base and ships around it, and one the Hydran RN and LN. And, if you're up for it, make separate VCs for all 4 different groups within the overall VCs. Aren't politics fun.
Well, I tried this out with two other guys today and the short description is that it was fun. I made a couple of rather boneheaded moves with the Klingons in Stage 1 but part of that was a desire to give the other guys a chance to play with the 'real ships' and get to blow something up (one of the guys is leaving next week).
The interesting thing is the tweaks look to be relatively straightforward. The main tweak will probably be the C4. I allowed it a few turns of 'activation' before the battle (picking up long range warp signatures) and of course it will have a couple of turns of reactivation in the battle itself. It would have been even stronger had I not done the stupid bit of activating its hull.... *cough* I also didn't play as strongly as I could have in Stage 2 simply because we didn't play with shuttles (other than the fighters). The 'wall of shuttles' I was able to create in a test run of the game helped the defense a bit, when mixed with drones (which I did use).
Gaining information's not that difficult to do either between the sensors on the Base, probes (20 points a shot... range 4 mind you in Early Years, but that's not shabby) and the less effective labs combined with the base being able to share some information makes this by far the most tweakable portion for balance (ie, the victory conditions will be based primarily on information gained).
The one thing about this scenario is how quickly it could become a very confused, messy melee... The Hydrans have overwhelming force, but can they afford to concentrate it when they aren't completely sure how many of the multiple Klingon targets are buzzing about with probes, labs and the tight beams from the base.. That more than anything will probably force the Hydrans to hit the base, fast. They can't afford to let too many of the EY Klingon ships near it where they'll be dealing with their shuttles and drones in a much smaller area of conflict where they could lose track of how close a ship or two gets to them and how many probes have been used. (Not to mention, each turn the base can focus on reactivating the C4 makes it a more dangerous foe).
The way the map's set up and where the ships come in, it's much easier for the Stage 2 Hydrans to reach the base and do damage than to go to the Stage 1 Klingons if they haven't achieved their 'release' conditions yet. The Hydrans could bypass the base, but I think by the time they get to the Stage 1 Klingons, the Klingons should already be released (and one of their conditions for release is if the Stage 2 Hydrans enter Map A). At the very least the scenario FEELS interesting. No one seemed bored and there were lots of 'Ok... How do we achieve what we need to do to bring the second stage ships on?' from my opponents.
So while this wasn't really a true playtest (3 turns only, and the third turn was played just picking up Map A as the Klingons probably wouldn't manage to release until late in the turn and therefore be a non-factor, to show how badly I played the Klingons, the LN + RN arrived on Turn 2), I could see how it would have played differently. I'm probably going to try one more 'online client' playtest, possibly actually online with anyone interested, as is, and make the tweaks the playtest suggests.
Michael: I thought about splitting the things the way you suggested for a battle but the main problem is the Early Hydrans should be out of it rather quickly and the story concept to go with it has the two groups very strongly working together. I like your victory condition suggestions for the EY ships to make them mean more and will consider those.
Just a quick note to say that this scenario isn't dead. I've just set it up at home and will be playtesting it.
Coming back to it I thought of a couple of ways to at least coerce the Hydran Stage 2 forces to go for the base first...
First of all, make it an automatic Klingon Massive Victory if the Base isn't destroyed. That combined with the fact that the longer the base is around to gather information, the more information it could tight beam to a ship (especially the reinforcement) if it lasts that long, should make the Base an important target.
Secondly, add a timed condition for completing the mission and disengaging. The main victory conditions will be dependent on how much information the Klingons gain, but the Hydrans won't have to destroy all Klingons to win, just the base, and make sure to probably take out any ships they think got too much information. So for each turn after the deadline that the Hydrans haven't disengaged by, the victory level is reduced by 1. This works because the Hydran battle plan is on a tight schedule. Sure, eventually the plan will reach the end of its usefulness due to unexpected setbacks, but the Hydrans hope to keep the steamroller going as long as possible.
Anyhow, with those elements in place, I think that makes the 'clean up the Stage 1 Klingons and then leisurely go after the Base' option less attractive. Not that the Hydrans can't do it, but they should be strongly tempted to go for the 'smash base + immediate defenders' method of handling the situation, at least to have the possibility of a massive win.
What I'd actually like to see would be:
1. The 'smash base first' method is the only way to gain the most complete victory.
2. The 'kill Stage 1 Klingons first' method can still lead to a win, and perhaps might even be more likely to lead to a less than complete level of victory for the Hydrans.
The two things I can tweak to balance it (besides the actual forces) would be the 'deadline turn' and the arrival of the Klingon reinforcement vessel.
My hope for the feel of the scenario is that the Hydrans, if they do everything right or the Klingon messes up, have a chance for a massive victory. But if they fail to win quick, they'll watch things beginning to spiral out of control and hope they can still complete their goals quickly enough to prevent a defeat. How the Klingons do in Stage 1 will mean a lot, as getting those ships into the fray quickly could make a huge difference.
The YBS will not gain much information if the Hydrans intercept the Klingon ships away from the base. If the Hydrans stay beyond range 8, the base will gather no information. This will be difficult to use for a clock.
You could put in a hard time limit but that is liable to have players looking for final turn implausible tactics that exploit the time limit.
Another option is let the Klingon base bombard the planet. Each Stinger shot at will save a factory for the turn. Hydrans will want to save the planetary facilities and quickly close on the base. Season to taste with ground forces, uprising or supplies. Some scenario has to include the weapons mentioned in the history not merely aiming at the planet but actually firing at the planet.