Hi.

This one is a relatively straightforward idea, but one which may be useful for FC purposes, depending on how it's implemented in said system.

(I'll stick with the SFB side of things here, however.)


Right now, there are a number of plasma-variant ships in the ISC fleet - some of which, like the CL (of which one might consider the PPD-armed CS as the 'variant') were around before and during the Pacification (indeed, in the case of the CAI and DNE, there were plasma-G-armed ships in service before the PPD was introduced) and others, like the DNP (which swaps out its PPDs for plasma-S torps) were rolled out in order to take on the Andromedans.


However, could it be possible, or even likely, that the Concordium made further plasma variants in the course of the Andromedan War?


Ships like a CAP and CCP, or perhaps even plasma variants of certain X-ships in service (such as CCXs and NCAXs) could be candidates - to the extent that one could resumably run an entire squadron or fleet with no PPDs in it at all.

While primarily useful against Andromedans, having the option of more plasma-variant hulls might give an added degree of choice for an ISC duellist - one who may wish to trade the PPD for more plasma.


Sound reasonable enough?

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 03:18 pm: Edit

Pure plasma ISC ships are just nastier Gorns.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Well, ones you have to pay a BPV premium for the privilege of fielding - and as noted, we already have the DNP (and technically the DNT, though it's more a half-and-half case) and an Andromedan War for them to fight in.

By Jim Pennington (Cutlass401) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Gary:

There already is a pure plasma variant of the CA, the CAT was in R9 pg 76.

So there is a plasma version of all the size 3 hulls (CAT, NCA, CL)

JBP

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Thanks for that, Jim - but that would still leave the CC, NCAX, CCX, CAX and the like which could have plasma variants developed.

By Jim Pennington (Cutlass401) on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 08:34 am: Edit

Gary:

Depends on what you consider to be variants of what: for example: The CC, CCX, CAX are all variants of the CA with the plasma variant being the CAT.

The NCA itself is already a pure plasma ship (the PPD armed version is the NCS), so the NCS, NCAX/NCSX already have a plasma version too--the NCA.

The only size 3+ ship i can think of that does not already have a pure plasma variant is the BB.

JBP

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 06:16 pm: Edit

The NCAX (or rather, NAX) in X1R is not a pure plasma ship - it has a PPD rather than a plasma-M torp in the lower hull.


Plus, saying that the CAT is the only possible plasma variant of the base CA hull, when there are more than one PPD variants available (CA, CC, CAX, CCX) seems somewhat limiting - why not have a CC with two prow Pl-S instead of the PPDs, or even a CCX (or CAX) with more M-torps?


I wouldn't mind a plasma (or mixed) variant of the BB either, mind you.

By Jim Pennington (Cutlass401) on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 10:10 pm: Edit

You could of course have a CC, CCX/CAX with only PL-S/Ms (CCT, CCXT/CAXT ?).

I just don't see the need for SSDs of them to be printed, simply use the regular SSD and consider the PPDs to be plasmas instead.

that frees up 3 or more pages for other SSDs to be printed.

JBP

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 12:45 pm: Edit

people are gonna want the SSDs.

Saying "just replace..." anything on any non-option-mounted SSD is a second-worst solution.

Now I question the drive to replace PPDs with plasma-Ss on every ship that ever fielded a PPD (and replacing every Plasma-S with a PPD on ships with plasmas). This stuff is what SVC calls an "obvious variant".

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Well, the original wish from my part was that when the ISC were done for FC, that something akin to the insert boxes for Lyran ships (which incicate the LDR conversions) could be done for the PPD-armed ships which could be given plasma variants (like the CA/CAT and DN/DNP/DNT) - in order to cut down on the number of additoinal cards needed to be taken up, and to give FC ISC players more choice out of the box.

In SFB terms, without new SSDs, there might need to be an explicit plasma-variant rule which would allow players to use existing SSDs, were new ones not on the cards.

(However, they could be integrated into Block 5 SSDs, should the older designs be re-printed in said format.)


While I would agree that plasma variants are fairly obvious, they have both reason and precedent (in the Andro War situation) - but I would not be so fast at suggesting that the other way around, and swapping out plasmas for PPDs, would work.

(The late plasma variants came out because of the limitations of the PPD versus Andro warships - and if there is meant to be some kind of limit on PPD production in F&E terms, it would make more sense to max out on plasmas than strain the PPD production lines to create variants that would be less effective at fighting our 'friends' from M31...)

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 05:25 pm: Edit

I know you weren't suggesting S-torp-->PPD substitutions but plenty of people have in the past.

A common suggestion is the 2-PPD ISC CA where all three heavy weapons are flipped to the other kind.

It's easy to want to treat PPDs and S-torps as interchangeable and produce ship variants with all reasonable (and some not) combinations. Your proposal has that idea lurking in the background for some people even if you weren't thinking that way.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 05:43 pm: Edit

In that case, the part about the need for more plasma against Andros would be an important point to raise.

As I said, no point maxing out on PPDs against a pair of Dominators...