Archive through May 19, 2005
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Star Fleet Universe Training Command:
Coming back to SFB:
Archive through May 19, 2005
I played SFB pretty regularly from about 1983 or 1984 through about 1990, and played once in a rare while over the next couple of years. I haven't played the game in any form or substance since probably 1992, maybe 1993.
From the late seventies to the early nineties, I played every major and many no-so-major strategy, role-playing, and wargames that came out. Of all the games I've played, SFB is the only one I truly miss and find myself really wanting to play sometimes.
I'm not much of a Star Trek fan, actually. Indeed, I don't watch TV and haven't in twenty years. I am, however, very much a fan of the design of SFB - complex yet elegant. I was thrilled to stumble across your web site and find the game still alive and kicking. Finding the site made me realize that I would really, really like to play SFB again someday, and would like to introduce my kids to it when they're old enough.
I've a few questions about coming back to the fold, tho'. It looks like there have been some major revisions to the game since I last played (I've got, somewhere, the chits, maps, forms and rulebooks from the three boxed "volumes" plus most of the Commander's SSD books and a few other modules and supplements, such as Fast Patrol ships and the X ships, IIRC)... assuming I can find my old SFB stuff and it's still in decent shape, is there a way to update those old rulebooks, or have the changes been just too drastic to use such an old version? Does it make sense to just buy the master rulebook, or have there also been significant changes to the counters, charts, EAFs, and SSDs since the eighties' incarnation of the game?
Or to put it more succinctly, what's the best way to get back into SFB. I don't mind buying stuff, but obviously don't want to buy anything I don't need to - I'd rather put my money toward buying new stuff like minis (which I never used, but can remember staring at longingly at the local game store) than buying redundant items.
Well, that's all. Probably didn't need to ramble so much to ask a simple question, but...
Jeff
A few thoughts:
If you don't want to spend money on new stuff, don't. As long as you and your opponent are playing by the same rules, have fun.
However, if you really want to get back into the game, I think you would find it worthwhile to update your stuff. Unlike the situation in the 80s, the rules have been stable since the 1990 Doomsday Edition. There have been minor changes and updates since then, and a whole lot of new material, but the core rules have been stable, so if you buy the latest version of the rulebooks, you get a set of rules that has made it through 15 years of scrutiny. The Master Rulebook is an awesome product.
As far as SSDs go, a few ships have been extensively revised, and a lot of them have had minor revisions, since the Commander's Edition. Really, you could get away with using old SSDs in most cases. But again, if you update, you will be sure to have the Doomsday revisions, get the updated format (which is nice), and you can be confident that these SSDs are not going to change again tomorrow. There are also thousands of new ships, new races, new weapons and systems, should you want to move beyond the old stuff.
There's another topic where you can tell people where you are and find out if there are other players in your area. If you have trouble finding opponents, there's always SFB Online. Even if you do find FTF opponents, you might want to check it out.
And welcome back!
Thanks for the advice, Andy.
I would like to update my rules, even if I never play anyone but my kids. I'm just the type of person who hates not being up-to-date, never mind that the old rules worked just fine for me for nearly a decade. =) If I get back into it, I want to get back into it with the current rules and stuff.
Since there doesn't appear to be an easy way to "update" my rules, I sorta wish there were an "SFB Complete" boxed set that made it easy to get in one fell swoop the complete rules, all the SSDs, counters, map, etc. without buying anything more than once. There probably woudn't be much of a market for such a large and expensive version, tho.
I probably will post to the Player's Wanted forum, but I live in the boonies and have an odd work schedule that entails a lot of travel and a very erratic work schedule, so I'm not sure if it'll do any good.
Thanks again!
To get warmed up, you may want to try the new Basic Set, T2000, and the $10 tournament rules extract.
This will give you most of the latest rules and a cross section of cruisers for each race-- for not too much $.
From there you can steadily purchase whatever you fancy over the next while.
Hmmm... can I ask a sorta dumb question?
In a number of discussion on this thread, I've seen people say things like "back in the ziploc baggie days..." or "we've been doing this at least since the ziploc bag days."
Not having played since the ziploc baggie days, this makes me wonder: What do you store counters in nowadays???
Walmart sells plastic containers with 18 or 24 little square compartments with rounded bottoms that are just fantastic. I found them in the tools section.
Then again, a lot of us are still doing the ziplock baggie thing.
Jeff. Many people still store their counters in a "zip-Loc" brand baggie, but... usually whe someone refers to "back in the ziploc baggie days..." or "we've been doing this at least since the ziploc bag days."; they are referring to the first edition of the game - which came in an oversized Zip-loc baggie. This packaging was similar to oter games from the day;i.e. "The Creature That Ate Sheboyan", some "Car Wars" expansions, etc...
Then came the Designers Edition (2nd Edition),
Followed by the Commanders Edition (3rd Edition),
and now, the Doomsday Edition (4th Edition),
and the not-soon to be released, 5th edition. The Armageddon Set with leather-bound rule books (complete with gilt edging and a ribbon bookmark), consolidated racial SSD books (complete with seperate, laminated SSDs for every variant of every ship), a 10,000 piece metal, die-stamped counter set, and a hand-crafted, custom-fitted, wheeled cedar transport case. 
Tony's kidding (mostly) just in case you missed that.
Welcome back Jeff! I restarted SFB after having been involved with it since it's first appearence. In 1987, or thereabouts, life sent me in directions where SFB did not go. I returned to it about 5 years ago as a way for my kids and I to bond. (I used the Cadet game and the Y module when it came out.) Omega also showed me that ADB was willing to expand to new places and that too caught my attention. Well I'm back to stay and I hope you are too.
Thanks for the welcomes, all.
Hugh - what age were your kids when you introduced them to SFB? I think mine are a little young yet, but don't think it will be much longer before at least my oldest is ready to try it.
Tony - thanks for the brief history of the game editions. The version I owned and played must have been the Commander's edition, but I think it was probably the Designer's edition that I was taught to play on, because I can remember waiting a little while after I started to play in order to buy the boxed "Volume I" set.
Is the Doomsday edition the same thing as the Captain's edition?
Yes, they are the same. I think the Captain's Edition was the official name when it was released, and Doomsday is somewhat of a nickname.
Jeff, my kids were 11 and 12 when I first introduced them to the Cadet edition. Now they play regularly along with 3 of the oldest ones friends. I am now getting ready to teach them Federation and Empire. The best way to introduce them is probably the card game Star Fleet Battle Force. It is easy and has some good graphics.
Jeff, I have taught both of my sons and my youngest daughter to play SFB. They were around 10 to 11 when they began learning. My so is 15 now and wins as many as he loses (unless he's running a Rom FH; hence the nickname "PlasmaBoy" ). He also plays F&E (and does so quite well).
Mmmmm.... Plasma.
My fleet of choice back in the day were the Romulans, though I played most (if not all) of the races at one time or another (except Andromedans... I seem to recall that our group didn't allow Andromedans for some reason).
My kids range from 4 to 8, so I've probably got a couple of years before any of them are ready for even the Cadet version of SFB 
, but I can use the next couple of years to indoctrinate them a little, at least. 
On a totally different note: I just picked up some minis on eBay - a Romulan Fleet Pack and Fed Fleet Packs 1 and 2, all unopened from the inventory of a store that went out of business. Got them for between 12 and 15 bucks each. Now I've got to go order the game (assuming I can decide what to buy - that Master rule book is awfully enticing, but the basic game probably makes a lot more sense)! 
At 4 to 8, you could get them started with Star Fleet Battle Force. I've taught kids around 8 or 9 to play that one and its got all the basic mechanics of SFB w/o the complicated math and movement. Plus, its great fun and everybody loves to envelop a 9-point Plasma-R while using Legendary Gunner + a Phaser-1 and a Prime Team combo to absolutly wreck a Federation DN... just ask Plasmaboy.
The Captain's Edition was nicknamed Doomsday because nobody expected it to be done sooner.
For the same reason, the future fifth Commodore's Edition is nicknamed the Resurrection Edition because only Jesus can write it.
The third Commander's Edition was nicknamed as the Golden Anniversary Edition because the two guys who ran the company wanted to make enough money to buy Golden Anniversary transams. We did make the money but we didn't buy the cars.
At 8, you should be able to teach the Cadet game. My son is not quite 6 and I've introduced him to SFBF and D&D. Cadet game is nice because it has addition (EA) but no fractions.
It's nice to see people in the SFB community and at ADB have a sense of humor! BTW: tell Jesus not to work too fast on the Resurrection Edition - I don't want a new version coming out just after I invested money in the current one! =)
I'm really excited about playing again. Unfortunately, Starlist had pretty slim picking in my neck of the woods, but since my kids are still too young, maybe I can con my wife into trying it (she was going to learn it many, many years ago before she was my wife, but then life sorta got in the way, she never started, and I soon stopped playing).
I'm still having quite a quandry over whether to buy the basic set, or the master rulebook and the various other pieces I need. I've a few more questions I hope someone will answer (sorry to be a pain 
)
•With the current edition, do you get all the (non-Omega) races in the set, or is it like the Commander's edition volume 1 box where (IIRC - it was 20 years ago and I'm old and forgetful) you only got the "main" races?
•Does the basic game come with the SSDs with the charts and stuff right on it (what were called Commander's SSDs when I played, I think), or the simpler, 2-up SSDs?
All of the SSDs are commander's type (whole page, with charts). We haven't done any other kind in a decade and a half.
Basic Set includes basic rules and seven races (Feds through Orions), including map, charts, dice, etc.
Advanced missions has the rest of the core rules.
C1 and C2 have the rest of the previous edition races.
C3 and C4 and F1 and F2 add more races.
J (fighters), K (gunboats), M (marines), J2 (heavy fighters, bombers), contain more rules.
R1 through R10 have more ships.
Jeff, if you can find your old counters, maps and SSDs then go with the MRB. The SSDs don't change much so these wound not be first on my list to upgrade.
Jeff, I agree with Tos. You have so much of the old stuff that I'd go with the Master rulebook. Then as time/cash allows, order the ssd books seperately to update those. Andromedans for example changed quite a bit. Otherwise you're good to go with the MRB.
Yeah, I just last year got my brother up-to-speed using the MRB (when I moved out, I took all my SFB stuff with us).
In his case, the combination was:
* Master Rulebook
* Module G1 (tables, data annexes, etc - I understand there is a G2 out now?)
* Basic Set, Advanced Missions, C1 SSD books
* Basic Set, Advanced Missions, C1 counters (but you're already working on the minis, so...)
* Module S1 and Module S2 for scenarios
Buying the boxed products gets you mostly the same things, I just liked the rules and annexes all collated together for me.
My son is 8 and a half and has been playing SFBF (with steadily more and moer of the advanced rules) for about a year now. A couple months ago I started him on the cadet training book. He gets the idea, but he's only with me every other week, so it's hard to keep his mind on it. Also, even though he may be smart enough for it, I don't think he really has the patience for it yet.
He may never, one guy in our group keeps complaining that SFB is so much slower than SFC that he keeps thinking about quitting us. :P
Just a quick update. I've found a good chunk of my old Commanders edition stuff - the three rulebooks, map (15 years folded up has not been good for it!), SSDs, etc.
My kids were anxious to play the "game Daddy used to play", but as I mentioned earlier, they are all too young for it. Or so I thought.
I found some unofficial "Cadet" cruiser SSDs online, and crafted a simpler version of SFB (about what I imagine the Cadet game has - no advanced rules, some basic rules ignored or simplified). My oldest (just about to turn 8) has become a bit of an addict. Every night when dinner's done, she asks to play. The others are clearly too young for independent play, even for this simplified version of SFB, but apparently some 8 year olds (including mine) have the patience for it - our current games has spanned three two-hour sessions so far and she's showing no signs of losing interest.
I also learned two valuable lessons last night:
1) It's easy to underestimate an 8 year old. I let her get right up close before my p-torps were armed; which leads to the other lesson
2) A couple of photon torpedoes and a phaser-1 can be murder on those little cadet cruisers at close range. I barely limped away from her first salvo.
Fun stuff, and this simplified version makes it easy for my old brain, since I don't have to constantly look up rules.
Based on playing games with my 5 year old and 9 year old, I have learned a very important lesson. If you are ever, ever tempted to take it easy on a kid because they are cute or whatever, you are a fool. If they ever get ahead, they will cheerfully cut out your liver and laugh about it.
(I guess this one deserves about half a smiley)
Probably less than half. Kids aren't nearly as cute when they're letting out a bloodthirsty laugh because they destroyed somebody.
Another note: 8-yr-old girls are GENERALLY slightly more mature and more patient than 8-yr-old boys. Mine's almost 9 and he's just beginning to develop enough patience to get through a real scenario without getting bored. For some reason he can play a mean game of chess over a period of several nights, though.
Been out of SFB for a few years. Last regular play I had was as a flotilla commander on Route 2 of the Operation Unity PBEM campaign. Lack of RL opponants and the collapse of the campaign led me to put it all away for a bit.
But, after finding a couple of new shops in Manchester (UK) that do games (one a specific gaming store) and who sell SFB stuff, I got hold of CLog #29, #30 and R9 and my interest has been rekindled.
Looks like to get myself up to date I'm going to have to get CLog #24 - #28, R8, R10, J2 and possibly the revised F1 too. I updated my Basic and Advanced Missions rulebooks to '99 around the time they were released, so I think I'm mostly up to date in terms of rules. One day, to finish my CLog collection, I'm going to have to try and find #7...
Time to try and find some opponants I suppose. There's always the option of brushing up my skills and running a demo at the games store...