The R section on the Lyran FFT and DWT is emphatic that the Lyrans had no tugs "smaller than a CL" because of issues with toting around pallets.

So that leaves the Lyrans with just 4 tugs (per the recent CL article)? They desperately need additional tactical lift capacity.

This design would actually work well with (genius!) the proposed Lyran Light SR if the SR is CL rather than DD based.

1) the lyrans need additional tug capability
2) the Lyrans need something between the freighters and the Cruiser based tugs.
3) the DWT and FFT designs are not available until the Y160s IIRC.

By Marc Baluda (Marc) on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 12:02 am: Edit

The referenced CL article would mean, given that the Lyrans have four tug classes (and a fifth that was never built), that they would have one SR, one TC, one TP, and one NTG?

The CL article is being misinterpreted or needs a rewrite...What CL is this in?

I would guess that the Lyrans had a minimum of 12+ tugs and probably somewhere around 20+, especially given the lack of the production limitation in G2 and the number of tug classes.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 09:42 pm: Edit

The newest CL, #38.

The Lyrans have 4 tugs (2 TGP and 2 TGP)identified and 3 SRs.

And the SRs should be off in the far stars doing their thing.

This means the Lyrans have a LOT of tug missions on their borders. the lyrans have LONG boders...

By Donovan A Willett (Ravenhull) on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 11:41 pm: Edit

One side effect that would be caused if this were to go official would be that the LDR might have had a some long nights considering if they were going to convert their one CL to this or keep it a warship. Remember, they did not get something resembling a true tug till they built their LTT, so a LTG would have been a godsend for them.

And thinking of this, would the extra reinforcing for such a design preclude conversion to a BC? As for a BC tug conversion, I would have to draw a line there.

By Marc Baluda (Marc) on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 01:47 pm: Edit

And how many NTGs are there?

Also, if that article only lists 2 TGC and 2 TGP then it is inconsistent with the ship descriptions that talk about conversion of TGP to TGCs - there would not be a need for the description as I recall it (but I'll look).

Finally, the TGC and TGP are heavy cruiser hulls - any heavy cruiser could be converted for use as a tug. It's not a specialist hull so I doubt the Lyrans had any significant problems or they would just convert a CA.

Perhaps I should buy CL 38 and read the article....

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Well,

1) If the F&E issues are anything, it can just be said that the darn things were about worn out by the mid Y160, hence the development of the minitugs. None were left as of the start of the general war.

2) I think that both of the tugs were converted. I SEEM to remember that at least one tug/ SR was "semipermanently" assigned a carrier/ PF/ SCS pallet in a scenario or R section somewhere, but the actual reference escapes me.

3) And I don't think you CAN convert a CA to a Tug. Or most every campaign player would convert many of his CAs to combat tugs with SCS or Battle pallets.

4) You can just say that a BC tug is impossible and thats that...

5) and any LDR issue can be resolved by saying (assuming they had access to one) it was destroyed during the revolt/ fled under the command of officers loyal to the Duke or whatever...

and Marc: YES, do buy the CL. The fiction is outstanding (ahem).

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Per the F&E SIT, a Lyran CA can be converted into a tug (either TGP or TGC). This is a "major" (i.e severely capacity limited) conversion.

Cheers,
Jason

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Bumpety bump...


A CL based tug well before the advent of the LTT based on the CW.

IIRC, the R section says the Lyrans couldn't use tugs "smaller than a light cruiser" because of the issue with pallets being toted... I think it says something like "they came late to the light tug concept?"

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 08:05 pm: Edit

Hmmm, I'm not sure if the CL is wide enough and long enough for a pallet to fit as it does with the TG (I think a pallet fits between the engines of the TG)...

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, February 15, 2016 - 12:20 pm: Edit

I was thinking it was carried inactive and sideways.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 01:18 am: Edit

Bump de dump!

Still needed. Just saying.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 06:34 am: Edit

Captain's Log #52 has a Lyran CL Light Tug.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 01:07 pm: Edit

To be clear the Lyrans did not need additional tactical lift capability and so needed a CL conversion for that purpose.

If that statement were true, it would apply to everyone.

The standard is pretty much one (1) tug per fleet.

The Federation had seven fleets and seven tugs [the tugs for the Second and Seventh Fleets were kept with the First (Home) Fleet].

The Klingons had seven fleets, and nine tugs, but two were pretty much permanently in use as carriers.

The Romulans were under a lot of stress, and are arguably really, really weird. It took three (3) Freight Eagles to do the job of one (1) fleet level tug, and by the start of the General War any SparrowHawk not a "permanent conversion," e.g., maulers, was available for duty as a sort of tug. But in general there were three fleets and a patrol detachment, and two KRTs and two Freight Eagle groups to support them (although both KRTs were in the Home Fleet).

The Kzintis had five fleets and five tugs.

The Gorns had three fleets, and three tugs, albeit were technically one tug short since one of the tugs was deployed to support exploration operations.

The Tholians, arguably, need at least one more tug, although technically it takes all three of their existing cargo patrol corvettes to do the job of one fleet tug, and they have a pretty small area of space (larger than the LDR, but still pretty small).

The Orions . . . you are kidding, right?

The Hydrans have one tug per fleet (although the Old Colonies Squadron has no tug support).

And the Lyrans have one tug per fleet.

So, no, the Lyrans are no more in need of "additional tug support" than any other empire.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 02:02 am: Edit

I need CL 52 then...

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 02:04 am: Edit

And in F&E I don't see many converting a CL to a CL tug given it would mean one less BC.

Like I said, it would be a MY and Far Stars thing.