Given the mentions above of X Seltorians, have the rules for the X-Particle Cannon been published?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 08:19 pm: Edit

Jim Davies:

The X-Particle Cannon, X-Shield Cracker, and X-Web Breaker were all in Module X1R.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 09:37 pm: Edit

Loren,

You say that

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I'd go so far as to say there is never a CCX nearby.

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By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Also, I disagree that PFs are adequate to force an enemy at high warp speed to drop to tactical speed. To do that, you need get into weapons range. On a POL the phaser-1s have a range of about 750,000 km, or about 450,000 miles. On a PF those ranges drop to 150,000 km/ 90,000 miles. The PFs have to get much closer to force a drop to tactical speed so you would need huge numbers of them to get adequate coverage. Spreading your PFs out this way dilutes their combat power because they can't attack in numbers.

What about the PFT, whether X or non-X? It has full-range phaser-1s. But if the enemy drops out of high warp at 750,000 km/ 75 hexes, the ship has done its duty and at that point should avoid combat until Tholian reinforcements arrive. So a PFT isn't really necessary here except as concentrated combat power when the battle is ultimately joined. Again, the Klingons and Romulans have different strategic requirements because their forces are not so dense in space as the Tholians, even though they exceed the Tholians greatly in simple numbers.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 10:26 pm: Edit

This is how I understand things to be. I could be wrong but this is what I've learned from SVC and SPP. Seriously, I do forget things and none of this is official because it's not in print. As I've come to understand, ships would not risk even coming close to 750,000 KM. More like 1,000,000km. At high warp the difference between 750Kkm and 1mkm is just seconds. When closing on each other, it's even faster. Since it will almost always be the intruder that drops to tactical first (because the Tholian is probably a smaller ship), it can close to a finer point. The Tholians will then be the ones choosing the range. An intruder isn't going to know exactly what the PF is before it must decide to turn away or drop to tactical.

You make a good point as to why the Pol should continue but I was told that the Pol was replaced when the PF's arrived. However, I don't see this in print so that could change. I agree that PF's would have a harder time of doing the Pol mission. Perhaps they opperated in pairs? Anyway, I was told PF's patroled the Tholian border, that's why I make the assertions I do. That doesn't make anything I said official.

SO I guess it comes down to whether or not the CWPX is doing lone boarder patrol or not. IF it is, then a WC would be of high value for that mission. If not, then the WC is not needed on the tender as it will be operating with other ships and a WC will probably be present (one that won't blind its sensors).

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 11:16 pm: Edit

FED NCLX: I have looked at both X1 and X1R there is no Federation NCLX. The DDX and DGX are on one side of a NCLX and NAX is on the other (NAX is a DDX with a NCA like sub-hull and 38 total warp).

X1R also added the DWX and HDWX. These ships along with the NAX and variants are limited in range as compared to the CX. The NCLX I suspect would be limited like the DWX/HDWX/NAX.I would rather see a true CLX, which would have the same operational range as the CX. Same weapons as a DDX but heavier shields.

By George Sarris (Gorthaur) on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 03:27 pm: Edit

All I can say is that the most important race "Andromedans", have no X-ships.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 04:14 pm: Edit

That's because they were X-ships to start. You do NOT want to see their second generation stuff. YIKES!

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 04:16 pm: Edit

According to G3 there is no Fed NLX. Only the CLX from the Texas class.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:41 am: Edit

I would like to see a Thunderhawk variant of the Novahawk-X. The Thunderhawk-X would make an excellent RTN hunter.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 03:07 pm: Edit

Snipe X. aka the "snax" by space dragons everywhere...

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 03:54 pm: Edit

It's not exactly a new "ship". But now that the Kzinti and Klingons have X-tech drone bombardment ships (and as I mentioned in the first post in this topic, I think the Feds would build this as well), I'm coming around to the idea that there needs to be an advanced technology counterpart to the Type-IIIXX drone. I didn't always think this was needed but with X-tech DB ships I've changed my mind. If I recall correctly^*, the X-tech counterpart to the Type-I standard drone is the Type-VII. The counterpart to the Type-IV heavy drone is the Type-VIII. And the counterpart to the Type-VI dogfight drone is the Type-IX.

Hmmm... that would make the Type-X the next in line.

Suggestion for a Type-X advanced technology bombardment drone - works like a Type-IIIXX except:

1. Size is reduced from 2-space to 1.5-space.

2. Warhead remains at 12 points but it takes 6 points of damage to kill the drone. (Note. The Type-VII is the same size as the Type-I but has a larger warhead. The Type-VIII has the same warhead as the Type-IV but is reduced to 1.5 spaces. Giving the Type-X both the larger warhead and increasing the numbers by reducing the size seems to me too good a deal. But if someone wants to argue for keeping the Type-X at 2-spaces but increasing the warhead to 18 points, I could see that.)

3. It gets the standard advanced technology drone capabilities with one new wrinkle. X-tech drones are variable speed but that speed must be set at launch. Since Type-IIIXX drones can be programmed to fly to up to 3 waypoints before actively seeking a target, I propose that the bombarding player can program the drones, at launch, for a different speed on each leg. For example, a D5DX approaches its target from behind the cover of an asteroid field. It pre-programs the drones so that they fly the leg through the asteroid belt at low speed to avoid damage, and then speed up at the first waypoint after they've cleared the asteroids. The drones can only change speed at the waypoints and these speed changes still must be programmed in (as must the waypoints themselves) before launch.

^*Someone please correct me if I have this wrong. I most commonly play the Tholians, with Romulans in second place. Neither of those races are known for their massive drone attacks.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 05:57 pm: Edit

A type-IIIXX drone can accept targets up to range 8. I would propose that a type-XX drone accept targets at range 35. This allows for drone bombardment of slow moving targets like convoys.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 06:25 pm: Edit

Tos,

That seems reasonable to me, though I'm inclined to think 35 hexes may be too much of an improvement. But the notion that a Type-X drone could accept a target at greater range than a Type-IIIXX seems eminently plausible.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 10:29 pm: Edit

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We need a B11X.

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By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 12:30 am: Edit

If you add a 1/2 space booster to a Type-VIII wouldn't that be your X-version of the Type-IIIXX or Type-VIIIXX. It doesn't appear that a Type-IX has a greater targeting range than a Type-VI (didn't see anything in the XFD rules). So I am why an X-bombardment drone would a greater targeting range than the Type-IIIXX.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 01:14 am: Edit

If the Klingons get a B-11X then the Andros get a historical Shiva.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 01:23 am: Edit

And after that the Tholian Dyson Sphere gets fitted with warp drive and 3000 P-IV-Gs.

regards
Stacy

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 08:08 am: Edit

Actually I'm going to do the forbidden. Suggest that the Tholian DPW get X tech (as IMP). It would match off against the other races DNLX.

Of course I would actually want more "real" ships than CNJ/IMP but it might be good to give the Tholians their own counter to all the other races IMP X tech DNs.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 08:18 am: Edit

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Just call it the B12.

"Take your vitamins. You're gonna need 'em."

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By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 01:16 pm: Edit

Kenneth,

You and I are just going to have to disagree on this one, I think. I don't mind "unbuilt variant" ships that the various empires might have built but decided not to. But I've never been a big fan of the "impossible" ships.

It's true that the Tholians don't currently have anything that can go one-on-one against a DNLX, but I don't really care. If we're playing an S8-style, BPV-balanced patrol battle and my opponent uses a DNLX as his flagship, that means I will have either more ships, or the rest of the ships in my fleet will be more powerful, on average, than the rest of his his fleet.

And if we're playing a non-historical campaign that allows "impossible" ships, my opponent might be able to put together a fleet led by a DNLX that I can't match in open space^*. But the overall balance of the campaign is what matters here. And if the campaign is "broken" for some reason, it's probably not because his best single ship is better than my best single ship.

^*But even in this case, with ships like the Neo-Tholian Space Control Ship, the Neo and Archeo-Tholian heavy dreadnoughts, some of the best PFs in Alpha, and several excellent X-cruiser designs, the Tholians have some really good options for putting together really nasty fleets.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Joseph,

I don't see your proposed idea as workable. A Type-VIII has a duration of 5 turns. I don't believe "a 1/2 space booster" is going to be sufficient to give it anything like the range required for the DB mission. I think you need a drone specifically designed for that mission.

Also, your proposed solution doesn't work because a DB drone needs to be able to acquire a target long after launch. Note that ATG (which all X-drones have) does not provide this capability. All ATG does is allow the drone, once it is within 8 hexes of its target, to track by itself and free up a control channel so that the previous controller can assume control of a newly launched (or transferred) drone. Type-IIIs can be launched ballistically and acquire a target that enters their frontal arc at 8 hexes (or less). This is "tame boar". The Type-IIIXX can do this but with "turn points" programmed in before it starts target-seeking (wild boar). But non-Type-III/Type-IIIXX must have their target at launch, even with ATG, even with X-tech.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 01:34 pm: Edit

I would have like to have seen DNs be able to get a form of X-tech. Their hulls not being able to take the stress has never sat right with me. I clearly don't understand the engineering there. I could see them, because of size, not being able to get the same benefits as smaller units. Maybe there would be no maneuvering benefits or speed benefits, etc.

Anyway, I'm not trying to open a con of worms, and maybe any mention of the subject is just doing that, but it still seems weird. Obviously the real issue is it's uber-ness and unbalancing of the game system. I just wish there wasa wya to make it balanced. I think one way would be to diminish the capabilities of such a unit.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Loren,

Actually, DNs being unable to have X-tech never really sat right with me either. But it seems clear that that's the way SVC wants it to work.

Also, remember that dreadnoughts can get partial X-technology. You can't XP the heavy weapons, but you can XP the phasers (better seeking weapon defense, double capacitors for better power management), APR and batteries (more power available), shields (no extra shield boxes but ship can repair shields twice as fast) and (for the Klingons, Federation, or Kzinti) the drone racks. A Kzinti DNH with all the drone racks XP'd and carrying a load of X-tech drones has awesome seeking weapon capability.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Yeah thats true and fair enough.