Hi.


One of the ideas kicking about for development regarding Omega has been the idea of doing a module for the various 'war' classes - the speed-31 ships which the surviving Omega empires started to phase in during the late Y180s and accelerated the shift towards with the advent of the Sixth and Seventh Cycles.


My main interest, initially at least, has been to try and focus on the kind of hot warp ships which would have come first, according to the timeline - namely, those of the Mæsron Alliance and the Federal Republic of Aurora (who jointly researched the technology and deployed their first 'war' ships more or less concurrently).


Now, I'm not overly sure about what kind of design concepts might work for the Mæsrons, in terms of showing their newer ship developments - although I would say that there would be scope for some interesting ideas there.


However, for the FRA, I'd argue that the potential is there for something special.

Up to this point, the kind of FRA ships shown have either been direct descendants of old Terran hulls, or hybrids integrating Klingon (but not so much Lyran) design concepts. While worthy ships in their own right, their very nature (particularly the hybrid hulls) show the limits of trying to rely on inherited designs in an octant where the only source of fresh Alpha Octant information and technology comes via the occasional Nexus transference.


Examples I can think of in Alpha itself of somewhat similar issues are useful be they the Romulan need to work with outdated Eagle upgrades alongside inefficient KRs, or the WYN Cluster's struggle to combine a rag-tag fleet of inherited and purchased ships with an array of overgunned auxiliaries.

Both of those factions have interesting answers to their problems, however - the Hawk-series ships in the Star Empire, and the 'fish ships' of the Cluster Navy (the ones the Usurper didn't fly away with, at least). Each of those ship series show design influences from various sources, sculpted into a new type of hull which can maximise the potential of each power's capabilities.


In my view, the FRA is in an ideal spot to have its new generation hulls be just such an evolution.

By the Y180s, not only would the Aurorans have Federation, Orion, Klingon, Lyran, ISC, Mæsron and other technology bases to draw upon (not least the data that Kraknora, PX 123 and others may have brought from Alpha concerning that octant's hot warp technology) but also a newly-upgraded fleet yard (thanks to Mæsron help) which could be tasked with constructing a new series of ships based on such more powerful engines.

When the topic of Masao's ship designs came up, I thought that a few of those designs might have been interesting in this regard - the Kestrel might make a neat Mako/SkyHawk-esque destroyer, in my view - but even if new-generation FRA hulls had to be cut from whole cloth, there could still be the potential to bring something new and exciting to the table.


Does anyone think the idea of giving the Aurorans an Omega-brewed equivalent of fish or hawk ships sounds interesting - and if so, what kind of hull design, technology and role would you want such ships to have?

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 11:13 pm: Edit

I don't think it would work in the case of the Aurorans.

In the case of the Romulans, they rebuilt their entire military structure to be "modernized" by the time hostilities brought them into the war. They used their "older" class vessels for raiding leading up in the building phase so as to have fully trained crews for their new ships. However, they ran their economy into the ground just to build up their "modern" fleet.

In the case of the WYN, they had an overabundant-sized economy with access to resources that allowed them to build a new fleet while maintaining their "souped-up" converted civilian fleet.

The Aurorans don't fall into either catagory, their economy is stretched. They need all available ships and need to build more as soon as they could when they start assisting in Maseron defenses outside of their borders. To build up a "new" fleet class of ships, they would have to halt production and repairs of their shipyards and retool them to accept the new structural designs, as opposed to refitting their yards to upgrade the existing classes, even with Maseron help.

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 12:11 am: Edit

Basically what George there said. I like my FRA of course, I just don't see it happening. I see them more in a situation like the LDR. Where they upgrade what limited hulls they can produce to the point where they're overgunned and probably got short legs, and they throw everything they can into any probe of thier territory because they don't really have anywhere to run to, and still depend on the Maesrons for occasional help even as they probably are watcing over their shoulders the entire time knowing that the Maesrons, if they really wanted, still had the bulk to crush them like a bug, as could any other Omega power. (Even though I still think they got the weakest weapon mix in the Octant)

I wouldn't mind seeing FRA with Plasma though. I oddly liked the Fed DDL even though it was based on the DD, one of my least favorite ship classes.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 02:54 pm: Edit

One thing to bear in mind is that from the Superpower Wars era and onward, Auroran ships do not remain in Republic space alone.

As part of the ongoing series of agreements signed with the New Alliance over time, the Navy is tasked with assisting in the patrolling of Alliance space - indeed, part of the background data for the hybrid Destroyer refers specifically to the use of that ship for this purpose (and that it was seem as more useful for solo patrols there than its lighter or heavier stablemates).

Plus, the pace of Auroran Naval activity in Mæsron space would have accelerated during the Second Great War, when they moved in tandem with the Alliance to defeat the Vulpa (as, indeed, the Navy had done when they intervened in the last years of the Mæsron Civil War). Indeed, the war classes built by the FRA and Mæsrons were put to their first major test in the anti-Vulpa operation, in the last years before the Andromedans and Souldra crashed the party.

And in the Seventh Cycle, there was evidently enough of a force to spare for the FRA to send task forces into Probr space while still being able to defend a now-enlarged Republic from long-range Trobrin strikes (and carry out what, if any, patrols in Mæsron space - which, by then, they were signed up to - they may have been undertaking at the time).


The Aurorans are not as bottled up as the LDR or WYN, in terms of where their ships are asked to go, and who they are likely to fight with.


I believe that by the Y180s, the kind of ships they'd be designing would take this element in mind - and perhaps be more fish-ship-ey than upgunned-cluster-defence-ey in terms of overall balance.


Although, one thing that might be interesting is, by the time of the 'war' classes, a vaguely Qixa-esque divergence of ship types. Perhaps the older hulls would be refitted to be akin to, say, ISC system ships, while the new hulls would be intended for operations beyond Aurora proper.

Say, for example, they need a new light cruiser and war destroyer, but for whatever reason can't make upgrades from the CL and FF work. So, perhaps they could instead have some of their pre-existing ships modified into FRA equivalents of ISC System Cruisers and System Frigates, while switching new production to new-design NCLs and DWs.

One set of hulls stay in Republic space where they serve best, while the other goes out to take on what the Imperial Bloc has to offer, alongside the ships of the Alliance.


How does that sound?




(Oh, and plasma-wise, it may depend on what kind of ships come over with PX 123, but they do have quite a range of weapons to choose from as it is...)

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 02:26 am: Edit

Well they already use two weapons I wish they didn't bother with, the TMs and the ESGs. Rather just keep the SRCs. But then again I'm not a Lyran player.

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 09:19 pm: Edit

Though I gather to infer from how you're talking that you thought the FRA was fielding whole fleets through Maesron space and into enemy territory.

I reading the same history always thought they were smaller. That thier "Patrols" and help was more like "We sent a CLA and two CLs to guard a highly important convoy you couldn't spare a ship for right now" or "We'll send a couple of DDs out to escort your carrier group on a 2 month picket mission against the Trobin" rather than having so many ships that they were able to throw them out.

Which explains the difference in opinion we had about the economic situation.

I have no idea who's right by the way as reading over it it could have been either way really.