Archive through October 19, 2009
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
Andromedan Tactics:
Archive through October 19, 2009
How well do Andros do in fleet battles against Hydrans? My group plans do play some fleet battles and that is one that is likely to come up with me playing the Andros.
I have a fairly good grasp on how to play the Andros from some duels and small squadron battles (like a COQ and a COB), but in larger fleet engagements with some combination of COQ's, INT's, and DOM's and their satellite ships, how do they play against massed Hellbores.
Would it play that much differently then a standard duel where panel tricks are hard to pull off? Do the Andro's have any special tactics that appear only when dealing with large fleets where you can have fairly large amounts of TRHs?
For the Hydran fleets, I would imagine a fairly heavy Hellbore presence as opposed to massed fusions and fighters. Certainly, there will be fighters, but not an overwhelming number of them.
Andros do OK in med sized fleet battles, but there is a bpv breaking point where their defenses get overwhelmed. Most people agree this is in the 750 BPV range.
By overwhelmed I mean that around the 500 BPV point its most likely a INT with sat ships vs lets say 2 IRQ plus scout. The INT can take a full alpha ad walk away with few if any internals(of course any satalite ship will take significant internals).
By the time it reaches 750 plus the each side add more ships(like another cruiser and DD) so now the INT faces more guns when it comes in and will take significant internals when it comes in for an attack run.
Against the hydrans you should be OK for a little longer as outside of R2-3 most of the time the hydran just can't throw out the damage a disr race can, but this prevents any kind of overrun threat as within R2-3 is almost pure death ;)
A lot of this stems from the andro wanting constant smaller fire agaisnt it while with larger fleets all ships tend to concentrate on one ship til it's dead. This turns into the ship being fired at takes internals while all other andro ships start to starve, energy-wise.
Also the "dump" is contraindicated if there is a Hellbore or three around IIRC>
If both panels are full or near-full, an andro should be able to power panels only to standard during EA and clear some energy out on IMP 1. They still ought to be able to toggle to reinforced if needed. That's not a lot but it's better than nothing.
Could an andro achieve a dump by leaving panels unpowered at EA, then powering up to at least standard from reserve power on IMP 01?
If not (and I expect not) much depends on the EW situation and the ability of the andro to open the range up. Range 23 + ECM + EM might make an andro dumpable.
Right the restriction of a "Dump" is really only on a tourney andro.
Any motherships will be able to do a minor dump plus repair to clear quite a bit of energy. As well doing a full dump to accept limited damage through one bank is easily done as well. And EW can play a big roll as well.
ie minor dumps are just going to standard to suck in all additionaly energy and letting the imp 32 "clear" allow for more room in PAs.
Once the panels are at std dropping the non-facing bank allows for more of a dump(tthis leaves the andro taking half internals from hellbores).
Of course going 12 ecm and then going erratic helps minimize exposure.
And last is an energy module can clean up quite a bit of energy from panels.
The problem with dumping/energy modules/other stupid panal tricks is that you need to not be an expanding cloud of vapor to do them. And at some BPV a fleet gets big enough that the only time you get energy in your panels and don't blow up is from the explosion damage when the Andro next to you does blow up.
I'm going to be concentrating fire with a goal of "1 or 2 impulses, 1 dead Andro", and the only reason two impulses is an acceptable alternative is so I don't need to use massive overkill in case I get lucky with the dice.
You can't overrun as long as I save the gatlings and fighter fusions. If I can blow up a satelite-ship or seriously cripple the mother-ship without using those you are in deep trouble. Count up how much damage you expect on the facing panels from hellbores and Ph-1 and ship based fusions at range 6 or so, and figure out if that's enough to do crippling damage through your front panels on slightly below average dice. If it is, you are screwed.
With regards to the above post, assuming an equal BPV fight, wouldn't a fleet large enough to blow up a Satellite ship or seriously cripple a mother ship without using fusions or gatling phasers be facing a powerful fleet in return?
In such a circumstance, wouldn't the Andros have enough firepower to take out a ship in return, basically evening out the situation?
No, compare an X BPV Andro to a X BPV whatever for power, alpha strike damage, and typical damage to single shot kill. You get to pick X as long as there are warships in the correct range.
The Andro will normally be inferior in all categories.
The Andro BPV is based on the assumption that they will get to regenerate and that they'll get to draw power from the panels. Andros win by making multiple battle passes and playing stupid panel games, single shot kills take that away.
And once you take that away they are grossly over BPVed and die horribly.
Further, I DID NOT say not using fusions, I said using only ship based fusions, and both gatlings and fighter fusions are of limited effectiveness at the specified range. Ph-1 and Hellbores will do the bulk of the damage regardless at ranges greater than 3, and I specified range 6 or so.
It's even worse facing the Hydrans than most races, because when you start taking drone hits on a single volley massive shot you can't kill empty non-facing panels, those are full too from the other half of the hellbores.
I think the Andros will do poorly against the Hydrans. (Most races do poorly against Hydrans in fleet battles.)
The Andros do not have a long range weapon (nor a medium range weapon). The Hydrans have more damage potential at short range than the Andros.
So, it depends on how patient the Andros are. The best tactic in my opinion is to displace an enemy close to the Andro fleet and kill it. Statistically, with enough attempts, this will happen occasionally.
The Hydrans have many more options. Attrition at medium range for one. Fusions do the same damage a range 10 as at range 3. Great numbers of massed phaser/fusion fire from Hydrans can do a surprising amount of damage at range 10.
Then there is always the Hydran charge. They have the energy to hold weapons and move fast. Sure, they will take damage going in, but if they get to range 3 or less, kiss your Andros goodby!
And the fighters (assumming booster packs) can keep the pressure on. The Hydrans could take PF's (nastier still).
As an Andro, I'd rather face Hellbore armed Hydrans than Fusion armed ones. There are a lot less fighters on Hellbore armed Hydrans. Some Hellbore armed ships do not have Fusions beams. The Andros will likely not take any damage initially. It is easier for the Andros to charge to the glory range (4 - 5) knowing that there is less stuff to fight at close range.
Perhaps it is best to stick to one-on-one battles. This almost always favors the Andro.
Did you have that Hydran vs Andromedan battle?
How did it go?
What ships did each side have?
Just curious.
The battle is still ongoing (we couldn't finish it in the first night due to time constraints).
His force had 2x Knight destroyers, 1x Earl Destroyer Leader, 1xLancer Scout, 1x Battle Tug, 1x Paladin Dreadnought, and 19x Stinger-1 fighters spread across the ships.
My force had 1x Intruder, 1x Imposer, 1x Mamba, 1x Cobra, 1x Courier Scout, 1x Asp Mauler, 1x ESU (on the intruder), and 1x Displacement Beacon.
We rolled for random starting conditions and we were playing in an empty, open space, floating map, but I started on the edge of the map going max speed at WS-3 and he started in the middle of the map, speed 0 at WS-2. Not as good for him obviously.
During the first turn, I decided to go speed 31 and he decided to go speed 10 in reverse. He used some maneuvering to get his ships facing mine, but as I closed he decided to fire all of his hellbores at range 6-8 (missing with over half of them) and he fired with his fighter fusion beams also at range 6-8, but I waited until range 3 to fire with my TR beams.
He had his fleet arranged as a circle surrounding his dreadnought, so I couldn't close with it without getting real close to some other ships and some phaser-G's, so I decided to attack the battle tug and one of the knight destroyers (the closest ships). Inflicted about 30 internals on the tug and gutted the destroyer completely. I also destroyed about 8 fighters, which took nearly all of my phaser-2 fire.
From his fire, the Imposer has taken about 10 internals, but nearly all of its panels are full (the front ones are full and the back ones are about 2/3 full. The rest of my ships are undamaged. It's lost some power and one TR beam.
Currently, his ships are still flying in reverse rather slowly (max speed for his first turn) and most of my ships have turned away. We still have some of turn 1 left to play and one thing I was considering doing was using my Asp to close with another of his destroyers and cripple it. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure I'll lose the ASP in the process, but I'm not sure if the trade is worth it (one ASP for one Knight), especially since I could just not do it and swing back on my second battle pass and wait for a better opportunity to fire.
So far, he has been very reluctant to fire his phasers at me (he's not a very experienced player) and all of his ships have them available, which is why I know the ASP is dead meat if it closes to fire at the destroyer. I know that turn 2 is going to be fairly boring for us since neither of us has really any heavy weapons left, but I plan to keep fairly close, re-charge on turn 2 and the close again for a second battle pass on turn 3.
Round 1 to the Andros.
About 1/2 misses is statisticly average at range 7-8. (any overloaded HB?)
The ASP could do half mauler damage at long range on a down shield.
The Hydrans may fire all phasers now that you have turned away. They have power to burn in this department. (I assume this is near the end of the turn, allowing for the 8 impulse recharge of phasers. Just thinking aloud.)
Thanks for the update.
I hadn't really thought of using the Asp for a more long range shot. My thinking was that the ship would take so long to recharge that it would probably only get one shot in for the battle, so I wanted to make it a good one.
But you're right. Even inflicting half damage on a down shield or full damage on a full shield that does decent damage on a destroyer is not a bad deal, especially if the Asp isn't destroyed in return fire (heh, it'd get another 15 energy shot that way).
With the Asp undamaged or virtually undamaged, it can begin the long process of re-charging its batteries. The battle probably won't go on long enough to fully recharge them, but even partially full, it could still do some more damage.
And yeah, he could shoot his phasers now that I've turned away and still decent range. Now that we have this break in the battle, he'll definitely go back and think about his plan so far, consult some other people for strategy. They'll probably remind him that he out-phasers me by quite a bit and then he'll blast me with phasers. I'm hoping not 