Probe Plasma Torpedo
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board: New Rules: (FP) Plasma: Probe Plasma Torpedo
By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 02:38 am: Edit

With the Federation publication of information on the Space Manta, an "unkillable monster", in Y206, the Romulan government realized that such creatures could easily have explained the loss of ships throughout history without explanation. Given the shortcoming of long-range scientific research capabilities on even Romulan 'survey' ships due to the lack of probe drones, such losses may have been taken without the survey ship knowing what happened.

Praetor Tal Vergius set forth a competitive challenge to the Romulan Great Houses to develop a system to address this shortcoming, while at the same time requiring no new resources or construction (the loss of Remus was still sorely felt, and the resources called for defense in the Andromedan Invasion and during the Trade Wars had strained an economy that was never strong).

An engineer from House Selniak hit upon the idea of using the 'Pseudo' torpedo modules in a manner similar to the modification that allowed the 'ECP' mode to be developed so many years prior. That the PPT warheads had such strong ECCM equipment already made them a natural fit for the information-gathering needed for a long-range probe module.

USAGE
(Super brief*) The PPT, when fired in 'PP' mode (probe plasma), must be indicated at time of launch. The PP moves on the map as a torpedo does, seeking a designated target. Information gained is determined by distance from closest approach to target, and for this purpose, the PP acts as two (2) lab boxes.

Due to the energy demands of the information collection equipment, this method of firing does not provide extended endurance (as the ECP mode does). The standard range of 30 impulses of movement for a plasma torpedo remains in effect (although the net range this device can travel may be extended via 'Sabot' modifications - commonly in place by this period).

* To start discussion. The envisioned details for this would work it out largely as a 'probe drone' in effect, only somewhat more efficient (obviously plasma ships carry VASTLY fewer PPTs than drone ships carry drones). Using a modification of the ECP rules seemed logical.

By Terence Sean Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 04:43 am: Edit

So this is post-General War technology? It seems more likely for the Gorns to have developed this in this timeframe, because the Romulans are in a mess in this time period. It could easily have been developed earlier, when the Romulans saw probe drones in action from either the Federation or Klingons. (More likely the Feds).

Also, monsters just aren't that common. The other use of probes (and related tech) is intelligence gathering and tactical intelligence, and it doesn't seem worth giving up a PPT for that job (imo). If it did have the extended endurance of the ECP, that would make more sense IMO.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 02:46 pm: Edit

2 labs for each probe plasma is quite good. That gives a plasma cruiser with 4 launchers close to the same information gathering ability as Kzintis who max out on probe drone carriage. More than Klingons or other vessels where drones are secondary. All without losing the same amount of firepower.

Can plasma used like this be killed in any way? Does it face the various restrictions of probe drones used during battle (when an enemy ship is on the map)? If it stays out over a turn break, will it gather information on both turns?

Looks a little too powerful for a simple throw in option.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Quote:

So this is post-General War technology? It seems more likely for the Gorns to have developed this in this timeframe, because the Romulans are in a mess in this time period. It could easily have been developed earlier, when the Romulans saw probe drones in action from either the Federation or Klingons. (More likely the Feds).



While could have is technically true, I don't see the Romulans taking the opportunity to do it earlier for two reasons:

- There was no obvious reason to. The idea of an "unkillable space monster" or that ships could be lost due to reasons that might have been averted with adequate scientific equipment on board may well be foreign to them. Indeed, IIRC, the Space Manta is the first published "no way to do anything about this but gather information and run"

- By Y206, the Romulan economy will still be shaky, but potentially starting to look outward again - resource collection, etc. BEFORE then, that would be almost impossible...certainly not during the General War, when blood was being squeezed from a stone.

The combination of information about a new area of danger in addition to the first real opportunity to expand into other research areas would make this the soonest time period it would be likely.

Quote:

2 labs for each probe plasma is quite good. That gives a plasma cruiser with 4 launchers close to the same information gathering ability as Kzintis who max out on probe drone carriage. More than Klingons or other vessels where drones are secondary. All without losing the same amount of firepower.



Consider the time period, though. This is not General War tech. At Y206, this is competing with intelligence gathering capabilities of X-ships and (just debuting) 2nd generation X-ships.

Quote:

Can plasma used like this be killed in any way? Does it face the various restrictions of probe drones used during battle (when an enemy ship is on the map)? If it stays out over a turn break, will it gather information on both turns?



If this idea seems worth exploring, I'll finish working out the rules to explain these issues. In short, this was mentioned slightly in passing above - it's based on the closest approach of the plasma to the target during it's flight time (the 30 impulse window it's moving in). The turn the actual accumulated data is scored is the turn it 'goes away' in.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 06:32 pm: Edit

I like this. There's no reason why an earlier and less capable version (1 lab box each) couldn't turn up earlier, say in the Y180s and be improved later. It would need some backstory about why something that doesn't kill stuff would be developed during the war.

By Terence Sean Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Quote:

Indeed, IIRC, the Space Manta is the first published "no way to do anything about this but gather information and run"



Actually, I think that there are a number of monsters like that... IIRC the Space Amoeba being one of them, which is a pretty old scenario. Of course, space amoebae aren't as deadly to ships as the Manta, but if you fail to kill it in time, there goes a colony planet.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Quote:

Actually, I think that there are a number of monsters like that... IIRC the Space Amoeba being one of them, which is a pretty old scenario. Of course, space amoebae aren't as deadly to ships as the Manta, but if you fail to kill it in time, there goes a colony planet



Granted, but the point being you generally CAN kill it.

'Space Manta' you cannot kill. Period. It's unkillable. Indeed, the rules for it specifically note that 'no weapon has any effect on it'. It can pass through web unhindered. Cannot be put in stasis. etc.

It's a fairly unique monster.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 03:16 am: Edit

Quote:

Also, monsters just aren't that common. The other use of probes (and related tech) is intelligence gathering and tactical intelligence, and it doesn't seem worth giving up a PPT for that job (imo). If it did have the extended endurance of the ECP, that would make more sense IMO.



I guess, in response to this (which I didn't specifically answer), consider that:

- This is one of the reasons that this was dictated (in background) to NOT take up additional resources or construction. Such monsters are a threat, yes, and one that should be dealt with...but by finding a way to use existing systems to adapt to the purpose. The PP is essentially just a software update to the ECP. A little time on the front-end to develop and deploy...but no cost to just keep around "in the back pocket"

- Again, it's not a permanent conversion. Just presenting another tool in the belt to use for the PPT. IS it an intelligent use of it? 95% of the time, of course not, no. If you are fighting a space monster, though - that PPTs don't fool in the first place (E6.52) - then I think you'd rather have the Probe Plasma than the alternative. (That is...nothing! - IE., "it's better than a poke in the eye". )

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 03:49 am: Edit

Quote:

'Space Manta' you cannot kill. Period. It's unkillable. Indeed, the rules for it specifically note that 'no weapon has any effect on it'. It can pass through web unhindered. Cannot be put in stasis. etc.



Xander, read the story accompanying the scenario. It is discovered that you can kill it by simply filling it with lead. The scenario special rule is simply there for that scenario only, to put the player in the same situation as the Federation captain, because otherwise the player would read the story and know how to kill the Manta.

Quote:

- This is one of the reasons that this was dictated (in background) to NOT take up additional resources or construction.



I don't think this is a realistic stipulation, economically. Developing new technology ALWAYS requires some kind of resource. Money, the time of engineers and scientists which could be spent on something else...

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 01:33 pm: Edit

Xander Fulton:

Rule (S6.1) used to have an entry that said simply "you cannot destroy this monster". It was changed to in essence "accumulate more information". The situation in the Space Manta story and the scenario is quite simply that the Example Article on which it was based did not have a resolution where the monster was destroyed, because such destruction was simply not needed. (Arguably, you could say that I was "sloppy" and the example should have included destruction of the monster, but at the time I did not think that was needed to explain "information gathering".)

But (S6.1) result #5 could be rolled several times, and the monster might accomplish its goal and disengage (if it is capable of such), or your ship might be so badly shot up that it is no longer able to gather the needed information. And other results under (S6.1) could simply be no longer possible (You can kill the monster with a suicide shuttle, but you no longer have shuttles or the power to arm a suicide shuttle. The monster can be killed by a probe, but you either foolishly used all of your probes to gather information, or your probe launcher was destroyed, or you ship did not have one to start with. The monster can be killed by a tractor beam, but all of your tractor beams have been destroyed and you have no repairs left. And so on.) For story purposes the ship in its encounter with the Space Manta did not learn how to kill it. That does not mean the Space Manta is unkillable, only that more information is needed. And perhaps Space Mantas have a unique means of being killed not previously seen. For example, perhaps the Space Manta can be killed by using a transporter in some means. Maybe you kill it by placing part of the Manta in Stasis. Maybe you have to ram it with an ESG field. Maybe it takes a suicide freighter, or a flotilla of Death-Rider PFs.

All we know for certain is that a means of killing the Space Manta was not found by the end of the fiction story, and as the Space Manta is (as far as we know) confined to the limits of the Cotton Candy Nebula, we may never figure out how to kill it, but simply post a "travel advisory" to avoid that Nebula.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 03:58 pm: Edit

Quote:

Rule (S6.1) used to have an entry that said simply "you cannot destroy this monster".



I think I was recalling that rule, actually.

In any case, I think the point is valid that for any regular (not just space manta, but many others) monster engagement, the late-war Romulans are at a big of a disadvantage, which, in general, the plasma races all share. Probe drones, in the first place, are something extremely useful to fight monsters that the Eastern Races rather lack.)

Add a Message


This is a private posting area. A valid username and password combination is required to post messages to this discussion.
Username:  
Password:

Administrator's Control Panel -- Board Moderators Only
Administer Page | Delete Conversation | Close Conversation | Move Conversation