There is no walking away. Romulans brag to no end over subspace once they get a belly full of ale, and my PF crew's moral just cannot stand up to that kind of tongue lashing. Besides, all the Emperor's favorite spy novels are on those freighters. Just think how much Romulan strategic planning will be set back once they go up in flames. In any case, I'm a bit more optimistic. A tactical draw is a strategic victory (although a minor one). That's about all I can expect here, so I'm all in.

Given that holding back with the convoy will surrender the initiative in a serious way, I don't expect the Romulans to leave anything with the freighters other than the underpowered SN-P. Also, their ships have fared quite badly in the past when dropping speed around PF dogfights, so I also expect the Sp-A to hold pace with the StarHawks. Besides, the Romulans look far superior on paper and have an entire turn to set up against me. I don't think they will be able to resist taking an aggressive stance.

If the Romulans move out in front of the convoy, I can see some real value in splitting my forces. I had not considered this as breaking up flotilla formations has spelled death in previous battles. I had also though coming in on turn 2 was a disadvantage, but I'm beginning to see how I can use it in my favor, particularly as set-up rules allow me to spread them out as much as I want. Even if I loose half the flotilla in such a split, the other half making a fly-by on the convoy should be enough to bag me the draw I'm looking for. Thanks for the suggestion.

As a side note, my experience with ISC PF battles is that there is no reason to fear eating distributed plasma-Fs (like from a Romulan shotgun). A little phaser reduction or general reinforcement when moving into the torp with shield #2 or #6 is a great way to set up for a strike in the face of opposition. Even if you have to resort to massed bolts, you can still come out ahead.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Nah,

Freighters charge WW and the SpA and Rom PFs go out to engage.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 04:31 pm: Edit

If this is a floating map, the freighters are a ball-and-chain to the Romulans, and are meat on your plate.

Forget your plasmas other their their use as either follow-on bolt attacks, or to hold off/cause a course change by the heavy Romulan escort forces.

The key to victory is your EW advantage over the freighters, and your massed P1s.

You boast a total of 12 P1, and the ability to have up to 4 ECCM "for free" on each PF. The 2 F-S can't hope to compete with that, and can't run.

Stay at speed 30. Stay in a tight formation. Make repeated range 15 passes on 1 freighter at a time. Your average damage at that range should be 12 points. This will easily collapse an F-S shield and likely do at least 1 power hit. That will slow her down. Each freighter you slow down will get easier to cripple/kill. If you manage to "cross the T" against the convoy, by all means lob a plasma or 4...

Most importantly are your victory conditions. He is carry 150 cargo boxes. You don't even need to shoot at all at 1 of the F-L to win, and yourself can afford a casualty or three if a golden opportunity to run in presents itself.

But the slow and inexorable path to victory is the range 15 "phaser dance" against his weak and valuable targets.

By Ezekiel P. Carpenter-Hyland (Admiral_Zekedak) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Floating map. No EW is use. No WW's or pseudo plasma (See post from July 20th for details).

I like the idea of making multiple passes in a dance (my inner Klingon coming out), but I don't think the Romulan PF flotilla, Sp-A and SN-P are going to let me do that more than once or twice as I'll be loosing a couple of PFs each time while they maintain full combat strength. As such, I think a close pass into the convoy at some point is a must, and the sooner the better. Of course, if the Romulans decide not to engage and turtle over the freighters, I'll dance with 'em all night long.

P.S.
Ever have a flotilla of PFs in tight formation hit a Romulan space mine? Not pretty. Granted there are only 2 of them in play, but they scare PFs captains to DEATH.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 06:33 pm: Edit

Ezekiel:

There's no reason to challenge the Romulan escort forces directly on a floating map. If they interpose themselves, just keep extending until you can come back with them in pursuit. If they don't do this and fly close escort, your mission is made as you point out. You should be loosing shields at worst, and then only if you make a maneuver error. Remember, you're not interested in fighting his escorts. Better yet, even though not playing with generated EW, just use EM until you achieve your desired firing position on the convoy. PFs use EM quite well, and don't have to slow down at all to use it. It's only to your advantage that the EM cannot be countered by ECCM.

As to Romulan NSMs, are you playing with hidden mines? That's a nice optional advantage for the Romulans. If so, use the small map player accessory to track the movement of his SNP and his SPA. It should be a simple thing to know where they've moved, and thereby take good educated guesses at likely "seeding" spots. Of course, since you're not getting that close to either warship, and have no reason to pursue either warship, this shouldn't be much of a danger in the first place.

I used the method of tracking in several battles against Romulans, when I played an opponent that:

a) insisted on using hidden mines;
b) loved to run around cloaked;
c) loved to hit ships with "suprise" NSMs often placed in unusual (and not normally tactically advantageous locations); and
d) often conveniently forgot to write these locations down, but took it as an "affront to his integrity" when I suggested that repeated failure to contemporaneously record the locations was tantamount to having never laid the mine in the first place.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 06:38 pm: Edit

BTW, no WW = huge advantage for you. Could definitely make this an easier battle to kill freighters. If you can manage it, a quick "dip" into range 12, or even 10, could be a game winner for you right there if you can manage to get in front of the convoy, with the escorts not interposing themselves.

For his torps, again, stay at speed 30 and DO NOT get into a head-on pass situation with his escort forces.

With no time limit, no EW, and no WW, you should be able to pull out an easy victory based on the condition you described.

Now if you HAD to fight his military forces, we'd be having a very different conversation...

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 06:42 pm: Edit

Based on the victory conditions, I say sacrificing the PF squadron may be the best way to go.

1) First, go in full bore, in two tight groups of three, onto the two F-Ls with the goal of doing at least 50+internals each on a single pass. Multiple plasma in the same hex timed with an alpha phaser strike will give you the maximum cargo damage on the DAC. That should net you the 75 cargo in one pass.

2) On the second pass/turn go kill either the Sph-A or four of the PFs. With no EW, WW or psuedos the Sph-A is at a disadvantage.

Even if you lose the squadron you will get the win

If he comes out with the Sph-A and PFs, run thru them and go for the freighters. If just the PFs, dance awhile, then blow past them and target the Sph-A, then the freighters.


[EDIT: This assumes of course you are also pressed for time in the sscenario, if time is unlimited then Richards way is probably better]

(was typing this out before Richard's response came out)

By John Smith (Johnsmith) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 06:48 pm: Edit

I disagree that the SP-A is at a disadvantage with no EW. PFs rely on EW to make them deadly. I'd say the no EW vs. no WW is slightly in the attackers favor in this instance. But in general, no EW favors warships over PFs.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 06:52 pm: Edit

George:

Why would he target or fight the Romulan military forces at all? They are not part of the victory conditions, and maneuver should get him more easily to his objective than firepower will...

John:

Generally, I agree with you. But, because of the victory conditions, not in this case. Ezekiel just wants to avoid the SPA, not fight it. Being able to use EM without the SPA being able to counter it is to his advantage. The fact that the Romulan ship and PFs could do the same is irrelevant, since the Romulans want to shoot at the ISC, but the ISC is only interested in the convoy.

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 07:07 pm: Edit

With no EW or WW, the cruiser only has phasers (which for this ship, numbered carried is on the low end) and speed to deal with the incoming plasma.

If the ship is guarding the convoy then one salvo will get him to break away, for awhile at least.

No Psudoes means there is no second guessing his torpedoes and can also be phasered and outrunned just the same.

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Rich

I assumed there was a time limit (# of turns) to the game which menat that he have to fight thru the Military to get at the prize (cargo). My error, with unlimited time I believe your way was better.

However, by taking out four PFs or just one with the Sph-A, he can't do worse than a draw.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 07:53 pm: Edit

is there any reason why the freighters can't disengage by accelleration? If not, there is a *severe* clock on this scenario.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 08:01 pm: Edit

Standard freighers are incapable of that. If the Rom military manages to drive the ISC far enough away they could disengage by seperation. Sublight evasion probably counts as destroying the cargo.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 08:02 pm: Edit

Better clarify the WS rules. If the Roms are WS-1 on turn 1 and you're WS-1 on turn 2, they're a turn ahead of you, and you'll have to charge phasers on T1. But at least the big Rom plasma won't be ready until T3.

I think you have a very uphill battle here. No WW makes it at least possible, though you'll almost certainly lose most of the PFs. The SPA will kill one or two on its own. The 6 Rom PFs can double up at R5 with bolts and phasers and cripple 3 more. You might be able to kill some Starhawks in return to claw out a victory, but don't waste firepower on the SPA because it's too big.

By John Smith (Johnsmith) on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 12:17 am: Edit

Rich: if they're not using EW, then any ECM from EM will be ignored, will it not? I could be wrong, but it seems logical that no EW means EM is useless.

By Ezekiel P. Carpenter-Hyland (Admiral_Zekedak) on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 12:57 am: Edit

Here are the EW rules we are playing the PF campaign game. EW is right out. This includes offsetting natural sources, be it from terrain or erratic maneuvers (which we allow, along with passive fire control). Scout PFs have also been replaced by standard combat models. WWs and pseudo plasma have been removed as well. All this has made combat more fierce, but hay, its fun when lots of things go BOOM.

Just to comment about our rules choices, we left EW out to speed up the game, allowing us to get through battles (commonly 15+ ships) and focus on other things like flotilla formations, maneuvers and weapons fire tactics. Given the intrinsic EW in PFs and plasma torps, it seems whatever might be lost in the process is minimal. Whatever the case, it has been worth it in terms of increased playability. Keeping EM despite no EW (just a 2 shift) has also worked out well as not being able to launch plasma is a bit drawback. As for leaving out WWs and pseudos, it was also to speed play. This puts ships at a small disadvantage (or a big one if they are stupid enough to fly slowly), but at least they damage PFs when exploding.

Also, thanks for all the comments. This input has been really great. I'll be sure to give you all a well detailed write-up when the battle's over. Until then, I'm all ears. I've also invited my Romulan opponent to add his comments as well.

By Ezekiel P. Carpenter-Hyland (Admiral_Zekedak) on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Also...

Mines are hidden unless dropped by transporter. My opponent is rather good about sportsmanship, not to mention record keeping. He does enjoy getting my jaw to drop now and again with "phantom" mines. I consider myself lucky to have missed all the real ones so far in the campaign.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 11:33 pm: Edit

John Smith:

EM is available and causes a +2 shift to weapons fire, even when not playing with the generated EW rules. Remember that the ECM caused by EM is considered natural EW.

By John Smith (Johnsmith) on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 12:01 am: Edit

Ah, ok. I guess I'm not that familiar with playing in an ECM-less environment. Other than tourney games, I don't think I've played without EW rules in effect since my second or third SFB game (like 20 years ago).

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 08:49 pm: Edit

Expend the PF's and burn the convoy.

With no WW's, the freighters are plasma-bait.

If you lose the flotilla, just build more...its why they're called 'attrition units'.

By Ezekiel P. Carpenter-Hyland (Admiral_Zekedak) on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 01:39 am: Edit

The convoy is worth three PFs. If more than that are lost, then the cost of replacing them exceeds whatever damage is done in the process. Enemy PFs destroyed offset losses as well.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 03:02 pm: Edit

There is no way in heck the convoy is going to get mauled unless the attackers make a suicide run and even then each freighter basically can take one F torp on a fresh shield without dying.

The defending PF fire one Pl F at each of the attackers and continue to interpose between the convoy and attackers without closing with the attackers as much as possible.

Either:

1) the other PFs run them out (so the convoy gets closer to disengagement by distance) while the defending PFs follow loosely so as to gain a bit of distance between the convoy and their schwerpunk.

2) or they crash through in which case each defending PF fires another at each attacker. The attackers are fighting uphill against plasma which ain't a winning strategy.

The Sparrowhawk backstops and nails any leakers.

By Ezekiel P. Carpenter-Hyland (Admiral_Zekedak) on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 08:49 pm: Edit

All I need to do is kill 75 cargo. Suicide runs might work, but just how suicidal they become makes all the difference.

The best suggestion I've heard thus far is to try and break the Romulan formation by splitting into 2 or 3 groups. This means 3 PFs will probably be lost and never fire on the convoy. However, if they allow other PF's to make runs against the convoy, and take out StarHawk in the process, their sacrifice may allow for a draw. (loosing 3 PFs more than the Romulans -and- destroying 75 cargo).

Here is another idea...
What about taking long range shots (bolts, P-1's) at the small freighters in hopes of scoring a couple of engine hits. 2-3 of thoes and the freighter becomes a sitting duck. If the Romulans turtle on the cripple, my options open up for taking out more cargo.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 06:26 pm: Edit

"Long range" for a bolted F is 10, which almost certainly means being within range 5 of the defending PFs. You'll be dead long before you achieve much.

The freighter is a sitting duck only if nothing (SPA, F-L) tractors it.

By Ezekiel P. Carpenter-Hyland (Admiral_Zekedak) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:24 pm: Edit

The PF battle for the convoy bringing spoils from the Romulan exploration zone south of ISC space is complete. Here is a full report…

Romulan Forces
Convoy: 2xF-L, 2xF-S, 1xSN-P. Start within 4 hexes of 2215, WS-1. Facing B, speed 4.
1xFlotilla of StarHawk PFs (leader, 2xA’s, 3xB’s) with shield refits, 1xSp-A+. Enter turn 1 on 01 hex edge, WS-1. Facing B or C, speed max.

ISC Forces
1xFlotilla of PFs (leader, 5xstandards) with shield refits. Enter turn 2 along 42 hex edge, WS-1. Facing E or F, speed max.

Special Rules
Optional rules of T-bombs, EW, WWs and pseudo plasma torps are not used. Optional rule of EM is used. Floating map. No time limit. Disengagement must be along starting map edge. Convoy may only disengage by distance, but in any direction.

Victory Conditions
To win the ISC must destroy 75 cargo boxes. Romulans win by preventing this. Scenario winner get a single standard PF added to forces pool for the next campaign turn (standard for PF campaign game).

Battle Description
Turn 1: The Romulan convoy is deployed in a square, one freighter every other hex, FLs in front. The SN-P is on the front edge of the square between the FLs. They continue in direction B at speed 4. The Romulan PFs and SP-A start around 0130 at speed 20-something and meet up with the convoy and deploy in parallel along it’s starboard side 1 or 2 hexes away. Their formation is a 3 hex line consisting of 3 PFs, SP-A, 3PFs (w/leader).

Turn 2. The ISC are placed on the map before energy allocation around hex 4210 all in a single hex (turns out the SN-P and Sp-A do not carry NSMs), and hope to pull off a battle run before being intercepted by the Romulans. The convoy stays at speed 4 and the Romulan combat units slow to speed 15. Clearly the Romulan commander has decided to sacrifice the convoy for the sake of preserving their forces for future action in the campaign (this is their only StarHawk flotilla guarding the convoy line running to the exploration zone, and they will be badly needed to plug holes in other locations). ISC PFs run head on at the convoy going speed 30. The Romulan navy pulls out in front of the freighters to cover them, but the ISC are able to cut across their bow and set up for their battle run along the convoy’s starboard flank. At range 10 the SN-P bolts a fast-loaded F and hits the ISC leader on shield #6. At range 8 the ISC launch 6 plasma-Fs and fires 12 phaser-1s at the left F-L for average damage (13 internals), but strip half it’s warp power . Next impulse the left wing of the Romulan formation reaches range 10 and plasters the ISC PF leader with all three plasma-F bolts again on shield #6. The leader, now crippled, realizes his mistake and orders the flotilla to initiate EM as he pulls out of formation at speed 15. The ISC flotilla continues to drive along the starboard flank of the convoy as the Romulan forces close, but they do not fire against the flotilla’s EMs. The F-L explodes when all 6 plasmas hit on the down shield (90 internals), but the crew escape in a shuttle. As the scanners clear from the blast, the ISC leader sees a Romulan F-S looming. Believing this to be his last chance for the flotilla to fire at the convoy (and possibly the last chance of his life), he orders the flotilla to cease EM so plasmas can be fired again despite the closing Romulans. The next impulse 3 of ISC PFs launch on the F-S while the leader and 2 others launch on the closest StarHawk. At the same time the Romulans fire all they can in to the ISC flotilla. The leader flies clear of his PF in the life pod before it’s incinerated by phaser fire and two more bolted plasmas from the Sp-A (one a fast-loaded F). It’s explosion damages shields on the ISC flotilla not facing the Romulans. Two other ISC PFs are fired upon by the rear wing of Romulan PFs, but their plasma bolts all miss (range 7) and phasers only drop shields by 50%. The wing of Romulan PFs closest to the ISC watch half of the plasmas unexpectedly close at super speed (32+15), and just before they impact the ISC flotilla tickles one PF’s #6 shield phaser-3 fire for 12 damage. Amazingly, almost all of it is block by shield reinforcement (9)! The front and rear wings of PFs open up on the incoming plasma, but to little effect. The StarHawk is wrecked by the first 2, a couple of boxes from from death. An impulse later the ISC crews cheer as their leader’s plasma hits for 15 damage. The PF explodes, but the crew ejects. The blast of the PF along with the subsequent explosion from the F-S (additional defensive phaser fire from the PF's rear phaser-3’s and SN-P do little to save it) destroy the F-L’s crew in their shuttle. However, the F-S crew also escapes in their shuttle. The turn ends some 10 impulses later with the ISC and Romulans forces cutting back directly behind the remaining convoy members.

*NOTE* Rules about the ISC PFs returning to EM were not clear, but we played it as if they had to wait until impulse 1 to announce and then start EM again on impulse 2. We went with this as they could not start EM again on turn 2 as it had been deactivated earlier that turn, and presumed the same restriction applied to announcing resumption of EM on impulse 32.

Turn 3: ISC PFs run at 31, hoping to clear their pursuers and disengage. The Romulans follow at speed 30 while the convoy speeds up as well to 9. Fire from the Romulans at 2 ISC PFs is poor with many of the plasma bolts missing. One PF is crippled but still has just enough warp power to disengage by acceleration (reduced to speed 16). It is caught by a tractor beam from the Sp-A while falling behind, loosing the EM bonus. The other PF takes a beating, losing an entire warp engine, but makes the turn back towards it’s map edge at full speed along with the rest of the flotilla. The StarHawks are in hot pursuit and before long the damaged PF is riddled by more phaser fire. Damage allocation is such that no hits land on the remaining warp engine, but all sensor, scanner and dam con was destroyed. As the PF crew rejoice in their luck , the F-S shuttle hits the PF on an open shield for a single internal. The result is a (*gasp*) hit on the undamaged warp engine (booster packs still engaged)! Amazingly, the PF is left with 3 warp, again just enough to disengage by acceleration. The Romulans are spent, but the convoy still has teeth. This forced the ISC flotilla to cut back and retrace their path back around the starboard side of the convoy. As the two PF flotillas pass the convoy again, the ISC give the shuttle a phaser “salute” (they could have blasted another freighter, but dared not drop EM to launch plasma as shields on their port side has been heavily damaged from their leader's earlier explosion). Far to their rear the tractored PF took additional phaser fire from the Sp-A, but had been able able to turn a fresh shield which managed to hold. As it subsequently came about to point back towards ISC space, the Sp-A’s shuttles began launching. Fortunately for the PF they are left behind by the momentum of the Sp-A, and despite having no shields to oppose their fire the shuttle crews did not have the excellent marksmanship the freighter captain displayed. At the turn's end all remaining ISC PFs disengage by acceleration, one breaking the Sp-A’s tractor beam in the process.

Conclusion
The ISC pull off a tactical victory, destroying exactly 75 cargo boxes plus one StarHawk as well in exchange for one ISC PF (the leader). Interestingly they lose in a strategic sense as the bonus PF they earn cannot be used next round on account of crew shortages (a function of campaign rules and poor luck in rescuing ejected crews from previous battles), forcing them to run the flotilla understrength. What’s more the leader PF’s survival pod is captured by the Romulans, a terrible thing indeed as no Romulan prisoners are on hand to offer in an exchange. The ISC command staff hopes they can get the crew home someday, and the flotilla solemnly holds their medals in remembrance until that day arrives. The Romulans loose the scenario, but preserve their forces. While this is a tactical loss, it is a strategic win as these forces will be badly needed in the next campaign round. They also rescue the ejected PF crew and furnish them with another StarHawk from back up the supply line (Ahhh, don’t you just love that new PF smell).