Archive through August 17, 2009
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
Klingon Tactics:
Archive through August 17, 2009
I played a duel recently, not intended to be realistic, but just fun. It was me in a D5X versus a Gorn BCH. Initially, my opponent flew fast and I did the traditional saber dance, getting through his shields for a couple internals. He then stopped and castled, using all that energy for specific shield reinforcement. The R15 disruptor and phaser passes didn't get through his reinforcement, so I tried to close for a R8 oblique with phasers, but that didn't get through much either. I also tried to run a "corkscrew" around the BCH, so that I could land a hit on a non-reinforced shield, but most of the time, he kept the buffed shield always facing.
He couldn't hurt me because I was flying at high speed and didn't close any further than 8, and I shut off the disruptors at times for reinforcement against his phasers. But then again, I couldn't get through his reinforcement at all, either - and getting closer or slowing down for overloads would have meant running into S-plasma. For a Klink, I think trying to crack a Starcastle is a very hard task. Fighting a traditional Fed who is castling might be easier, because the Klingon could gamble against the photons and, if lucky, could swoop in at close range if the photons got a bad roll. But closing in on plasma seemed like certain death.
In the end, I could either dance and not inflict any damage, or close the range and be pummeled into scrap. I tried to take some of the plasma on side shields as I closed, and the later happened 
. Any suggestions on what you would do in a situation like this? Thank you.
With a D5X, you ought to be getting a -1 EW shift, so at R8 your expected damage is something like 24 (4 OL UIM disruptors) plus 20 (7 phasers) = 44. I doubt he's going to be putting 44 specific reinforcement in every time, especially if you're surfing the shield boundary.
Look at his EA. 41 power - 4 (HK) - 5 (TACs) - 6 (EW) - 2+2+4+1 (plasma) = 17. Subtract about 8 for phasers and maybe 4 for EPT or 2 for finishing an F and that leaves around 5. Plus 6 battery is 11. Something fishy is going on.
(My goodness. That is very underpowered for a BCH.)
I don't expect you to get any drone hits, but you can use them to soak up his phaser fire. Besides which, he should always be shooting into a 1- or 2-shift.
If he does a big launch, you can weasel and get up to high speed quickly (which is nice) but you don't have enough shuttles to do that.
Sure, it's going to be long and tedious, but he can't win unless you let him.
Essentially, the starcastle is rather like a Kaufman retrograde. It's a refusal to fight that gives the strategic initiative to the enemy. If your opponent insists on doing that, play something else.
Given the matchup (X-tech vs GW, and D&D vs plasma on a floating map to boot), the Gorn player starcastling shouldn't be a surprise. It's that or just leave.
But yeah, a D5X should be able to pop a brick at R8 w/overloads.
About the only thing the Gorn player can do is castle and hope he gets lucky with the plasma bolts.
Thanks for the replies.
Unfortunately, the Gorn pilot was putting a good amount of power (maybe even around 20 points at times) into his reinforcement. He didn't have to use his F-torps because I was too far and fast, and I believe he always had 1 plasma-S charging, 1 on the verge of being loaded, and 1 torpedo charged. He didn't quite fire his phasers every turn, either, so the phaser capacitor must have been pretty low. I'm not sure how his energy was all set up, but I do know that everything was going according to the rules.
In this match, I sometimes did overload two of the side-facing disruptors (whichever side he was facing, so I could fire off the 3 or 5 shield and turn away quicker) and combined that with a phaser alpha. Next time I am in a similar fight, I will try using full overloads and hopefully that will crack the starcastle.
Like you said, between the odd matchup and the open map, I can't blame the Gorn player for castling, but it can get tiresome. If only Klingons mounted some heavy plasma instead of drones for battles like these...
Agreed that no Gorn can expect to beat a D5X on a floating map. But even on a fixed map, this looks pretty tough for the Gorn.
With disruptors against a starcastle try surfing the shield boundary as you close. It's possible to change which shield you're facing every time you move with just sideslips; if you time the run in from range 15 to start as he earns a TAC he'll have just one warp and one impulse TAC available and once both are gone you have a choice of shields.
Also, don't be afraid to get closer to a castling plasma ship. If you clip the edge of your FH arc at five or eight hexes and only one of you fires it looks pretty good for you.
Or move to a range where you can plink at him, but outside effective bolt range, brick up and return the favor, say range 30.
Then ask him, "now what?"
Hi,
I played against a ISC Fleet (CC , CA & DD) with my Klingon Fleet (C10, 2 * D5).
When I played against an ISC fleet with CAT's (No PPD's) I won but I am unable to win when he has PPD's.
Can anyone help with tactics and the best Klingon ships to use when fighting ISC.
Many Thanks
Rich.
Yeah.
Bring PF flotilla's.
Klingons here have a passel of range 30 disruptors with good arcs.
So saber dance and hit the DD until it has to leave its cohorts.
If you need to close, consider a trio of scatterpacks (presumably this is a pacification era battle). TheISC will have to use a lot of firepower on the drones while you get closer for an OL pass at range 8.
Klingons have so many options.
D6Ds are powerful scouts with good weapons.
F5Ds are cheap ways to put lots of drones on the map.
Klingon carriers, while they don't carry F15/F14s, are plenty good.
C7/D5 have 5 shields they can fire disruptors out of.
A Klingon squadron can often put enough marines on an enemy ship to cause SERIOUS problems to someone whose only issue used to be a down shield.
There is no one winning solution, just pick a tactic and go with it. For beginners, putting 36-48 drones in front of you and then coming in with overloads is a pretty good tactic.
Hi,
Thanks for the advice, I am playing in a tech block campaign so I will need to develope some more tech. eg suicide shuttles.
It give me plenty of ideas and things to tryout.
Many Thanks
Rich.
Greetings,
Does anyone have any thoughts about how they would handle an ISC CA in a duel using a fully refitted D7C without any PFs? I'm totally at a loss. It looks to me as though the PPD is about equal to the disruptors at reasonable ranges greater than 8, but I'm wary of closing to range 8 regularly enough to win because of the S-torps. About the best I can come up with is dropping a scatter pack, hoping he pops a weasel, and then nailing him with everything and getting back out before his fire control turns back on, but one can't do that more than twice.
Thanks,
Will
That's a tough fight.
One SP shouldn't make him weasel...IRC, the ISC CA has enough phasers and tractors to handle 3-6 drones. It'll screw up his power curve, tho.
Read up on the ECM Yo-Yo. It's a tactic designed to help break wave locks.
And don't forget your ECM drones.
Last but not least...you have many, many transporters. Plus many marines. Don't be afraid to go for the capture attempt.
Thats a gap of ~40 BPV (depending on which drones you buy). You're unlikely to win a straight up fight but you may be able to win on points if using the standard victory condtions. Using a C7 or removing all the refits from the ISC would give more even matches.
Don't feel bad if you don't do well because, as pointed out, it's a mis-match.
Compare the ISC CAT (The same CA but with the center PPD exchanged for a 3rd Plasma-S) to the Gorn BCH if you want to realize what beasts the ISC CA-hulls are.
I hate to say it, but with such a mis-match, your best fighting range may be ranges 23 to 25. At that range, the PPD doesn't connect quite as well, and does a bit less damage, while your disruptors can hit 50/50 with DERFACS. A battle where you try to stay at range and narrow-salvo disruptors, plus maybe a couple extra points from your P1s, "might" be able to whittle down his shields faster than he can sand-paper yours. Additionally, at that range you should be easily able to avoid any out-bound plasma.
At range 15 or less, unfortunately and to be blunt, his weapons suite and power curve will overwhelm you.
Using drones to tie up phasers can work (if you time it right and use some ATG-equipped drones as well as an SP, you could have him deal with 8 or even 10 drones in single turn), but only in the very short term. To extend your options here a little, make sure you purchase an MRS with your commander's options. This likely takes away a shuttle you'd otherwise use an an SP platform, making it IMPERATIVE that you try to recover your admin for re-use. In any case, in a pinch you could use the MRS as an SP. But the main advantage here is the extra 20 spaces of drones the MRS will give you.
I'd like to think that you can find some way to make use of the two advantages you do have: turn mode and transporters. Unfortunately, at ranges where either of those can be decisive, he overpowers you and exceeds your weapons suite. His plasma arcs and rear-Fs will likely adequately counter any maneuver advantage you may have. Transporters will only come into play if he makes a big mistake, which means you'll probably already have the game in hand.
If you can find a way to draw out both (real) plasma on one turn, then you might be able to afford dips into closer range, combined with trying to tie up his phasers with drones.
Good luck.
A more even fight would be with a D7W.
Or taking the PFs.
SPP said in another thread:
“Consequently, I am not sure the problem truly exists, i.e., three D6Ds in a fleet to make use of their special sensors really only works if they can avoid having to use their phaser-2s (as phaser-2s admittedly). So while you get six extra special sensors and gobs of power, it is at the expense of a considerable reduction in direct-firepower, and while each ship can put out six drones a turn (nominally 18 drones for the three ships), their real rate of launch is only three drones a turn (nominally nine drones a turn for three ships) or they wind up spending several turns reloading.
So, yes, there has been some discussion of it, but I have never SEEN it be a problem either in reports or in battle groups (and, honestly while have always been a big users of EW, I have never taken multiple D6Ds in a fleet which may be a blind spot on my part).”
The problem with three drones a turn is that you need enough to force the enemy to change their tactics. While three D6D's would produce a nice 9 drone wave, having three D6Ds is pretty crazy, even for me. However, in such a situation, I’d want to have all three six-drone drone waves running against three targets if possible and keeping heavy pressure the entire engagement. (Three drones are worth using ADD and phasers on, six drones either draw a WW or heavy phasers too. Nine drones would draw a WW when six would do. Of course if WW's are gone... well, no need to go on about that.)
Anyway, the tactic I've used to keep a single D6D launching six drone per turn for many turns in a row is launching scatter packs on reload turns (loading SPs while launching regularly). Since a D6D, IMHO, should be used like a scout (ten hexes behind the main element) it’s not too hard to regularly recover spent shuttles. Of course, I try to keep an eye out for situation where I may not want to launch any drones at all, and then remember to reload a space during that turn. This is usually only on turns where the enemy is pulling back to reload since it has to be clear during EA that you can skip launching for a turn.
I'm inclined to agree with SPP about the D6D in a large fleet.
That said, it is hades-on-wheels for a small squadron. I lost a recent pickup game badly in part because of it. 3 enemy klinks, one a D6D, the other a C7 and D5 supported by the D6D's channels.
You start stacking those D6Ds in a full sized fleet, you'll find, as SPP suggests, you're sacrificing too many hulls and too much firepower to get the degree of support (in terms of number of channels powered for EW) you need for a fleet.