Survey pallet and CA-based "improved" survey cruiser.
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
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R11: LYRAN PROPOSALS:
Survey pallet and CA-based "improved" survey cruiser.
Well, I've been informed by Scott Tenhoff in "Questions on Ships" that the best place to put my up-and-coming series of "improved" survey cruisers would simply be the race-appropriate areas of "New Ships" even though I don't intend these vessels as serious proposals. So, to that end, here we go...
A HISTORY OF THE REASONING BEHIND THE "IMPROVED SURVEY CRUISERS":
Basically, as I looked over the various survey cruiser included in modules R2 through R4, I noted that they were uniformly inferior to the impressive Federation Galactic Survey Cruiser. Of course, I knew and accepted the in-universe reasons as to why this was. The Federation has a stronger economy and more resources than the other races and is also more scientifically minded than most of the others, thus giving them both the means and the motive to build a survey cruiser that ultimately turned out to be far better than what most of the other races came up with. This is similar to the reasons I was given for them having such comparatively good police ships (there is more piracy in their space and they have more resources, thus giving them both the means and the motive to build more and better police ships).
However, that didn't stop me from wondering what the survey cruisers of the various other races might look like if they were to be "uprated" to (at least roughly) match the standard set by the GSC. But what exactly IS the standard set by the GSC?
Well, the two things I noted about the GSC were that its weapons were (ignoring the refit and the drone rack) roughly equivalent to an old Light Cruiser (assuming that its four PH-1s and four PH-3s are roughly equivalent to the CLs six PH-1s) and that it has significantly more internals that the CA its design is based off. In fact, the number of boxes it has is more in the battlecruiser's league rather than the heavy cruiser's, with 92 non-track internals on the unrefitted CA, 115 on any of the three BCs and 118 on the unrefitted GSC. The GSC also has a "6" box at the top of its damage control track like the BC has... This is 28.2% more boxes than the CA and 2.5% more boxes than the BC...
Both of these things (the roughly CL level armament and the BC level number of interals), coupled with the GSC having a "6" dam con box, allowed me to get a rough idea of how I was going to approach the design of these "improved" SRs...
THE SSDs AND THEIR HISTORIES START HERE:
With the above in mind, allow me to hereby introduce my two alternate concepts for bringing the Lyran Prairie Cat class survey cruiser up to speed with its Federation counterparts...
THE "GALAXY CAT" IMPROVED SURVEY CRUISER (SRI)
The first of these is a totally new, self-contained, non-tug design based on the Tiger class heavy cruiser (just as the GSC is based on the. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Lyran "Galaxy Cat" Improved Survey Cruiser, or SRI for short...
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/CaptainTrek/LyranSRI.jpg
I have to admit, I'm incredibly proud of her, particularly given that this is the first custom SSD I've ever made... This SSD was actually rather on the massive side due to my retarded scanner making everything huge (though this did make her somewhat easier to build from the scanned SR SSD I started with than she otherwise would have been to put together), but somehow Photobucket seems to have magically fixed that problem. As you can see, I've tried to arrange the SSD itself as neatly as I possibly can and have included space for BPV and a rule number for the sake of completeness. I wanted this to be a relatively "complete" SSD that wouldn't have to be modified heavily in order to fit in with "standard" SSDs... However, I can't help wondering wether I should have put some kind of signature or watermark on it... I don't want to put my real name to this work ( you see Glen Twist isn't my real name), but would just putting, "Submitted and copyright 2010 ADB inc." suffice?
Anyway, I suppose you're wondering exactly how I came up with this design, right?
HOW THE "GALAXY CAT" CAME TO BE:
When I first saw the Lyran SR, the first thing I noticed was that its weapon suite was, in a word, terrible. No disruptors and only two offensive phasers... and even those are only PH-2s! Sure the GCat can carry a pallet, but the Survey Captain's Game specifies that the PCat can only carry cargo or self-defence pallets while operating under survey conditions and the latter provides only a marginal improvement.
Naturally, this poor armament on my "improved" ship had to change, so I gave the Galaxy Cat two disruptor cannons and two additional PH-2s... I have tentatively decided against upgrading these to PH-1s (even though the ship's weapons would then be exactly identical to the Panther CLs), though to make up for it I gave the GCat as many phaser-3s as the Tiger has. This is somewhat fitting with how the GSC's armament is designed, with some offensive punch being traded out for a good battery of defensive phasers. I suppose (given that the GSC gets two more drone racks in its upgrade) that the GCat's + refit could be extended to also uprating its PH-2s to PH-1s, though I have no idea how many points this would add to the ship's BPV (or even what its BPV is as is).
But regardless, next came fixing the PCat's tracks, which was by far the easiest part of the design process... The GSC has an extra box at the start of each track (with the GSCs highest dam con box being a "6"), so I just gave the GCat exactly the same thing...
Now came the hard part. First of all, I'd had to figure out just how many boxes I wanted to add to the Prairie cat before I was comfortable saying, "This is the Galaxy Cat". I looked to the numbers I had rung up on the Fed CA, GSC and BC for answers...
Since the GSC was about on a parity with the BC in terms of non-track internals, I figured I should put the GCat's non-track internals on a parity with the Hellcat. I decided to use the "final form" (that is, a Hellcat with the powerpack upgrade) of the Hellcat as my benchmark, simply because I was using the "final form" of the Fed BC as a benchmark (though of course the BC doesn't actually have upgrades).
Now, the fully upgraded Hellcat has 118 boxes. The Tiger has 97 and the Prairie cat (before adding any of my modifications) has 93. I calculated that 28.2% more than 97 would be about 124 boxes and that 2.5% more than 118 would be about 121. Unsure of which benchmark to go with, I decided to just give the GCat its improvements and see whether I needed the three extra boxes offered by the Tiger calculation or not...
Now, it wasn't so much that it was "difficult" per se to put the GCat on a parity with the GSC, it's just that I was afraid that doing so would render the GCat too much like the GSC... too "standardised" if you like... But there were a few things I noted in the GSCs design that it made perfect sense to give to the GCat...
1: The GSC has exactly the same number of hull boxes (in exactly the same places) as the Fed CA... Thus it immediately made sense to give the GCat four extra hull boxes on each side to give it the same 16 boxes that the Tiger has...
2: The GSC features a 50% increase in batteries over the CA, which I decided would make an inoffensive addition to the GCat...
3: The GSC does not, unlike the Prairie Cat, have fewer control spaces than its respective CA. To this end, I decided to give the GCat two extra Aux boxes (but I decided against giving it anything to replace the Tiger's flag box).
These, couple with the four extra weapons I gave to the GCat brought it to 109 non-track internals, meaning I would have to find another 12 to bring it to 121...
Now here's where the "standardisation" bugbear really bit. The only improvements I could make that seemed logical were to give the GCat more cargo, more shuttles, more special sensors and more labs, all of which served to make the GCat increasingly (and worryingly) identical to the GSC... But ultimately I relented, feeling I didn't have a choice and made the following additions...
Four extra cargo boxes
Four extra shuttle boxes
Two extra special sensor boxes
Two extra lab boxes
And there you have it, the Lyran "Galaxy Cat" Improved Survey Ship. What do you think? Come on, be honest... 
THE LYRAN SURVEY PALLET:
To be added shortly...
The SSD is great.
Personally I think 10 lab is a bit over the top though. I'd eliminate 2 lab, 2 cargo, 2 battery and a couple shuttle. I'd swap out one Aux for an Emerbridge. With a couple PF this would be just the ticket...
Note that the ESG is very powerful in the single ship duel role (and SR should be alone mostly).
However "You see, Glen Twist isn't my real name." This BBS REQUIRES real names. Jean and the Steves enforce this rule with zeal...
Mike
It is a great first effort.
Now the big thing is to ask yourself instead of a near box-for-box transposition of the GSC into a Lyran hull, ask yourself what racial differences the Lyrans would build into their version of the GSC. Some stuff will be the same for form-follows-function reasons. Other stuff will be different. Feds are lab-happy anyway so 10 labs on a GSC is not unreasonable. While lots of labs on a survey ship is OK, 10 may be a few too many on a Lyran.
And yesh. Not giving the BBS your real name is a big issue here, Glen. I would suggest an apology and an update to your account profile forthwith.
Dear Mr. Name Unknown, I like your idea and echo the concerns over too many Labs. Have you considered reducing them to 6, then re-arranging the bottom halves of the outriggers to compact them? Say, by moving two Cargo over from the right to the left side, and then re-arranging boxes?
Another de-GSC-ification would be only having 6 shuttles, rather than 8.
Also, what year would this ship be in? Keep up the good work!
What's an EM?
Email sent asking the gentleman to fix his error. Posts after this point with an uncorrected name will lead to further actions.
Jean
WebMom
Cool. I didn't like seeing Glenn spelled with only one N. It seemed unnatural.
"What's an EM?"
Emergency Bridge. I was pretty sure I'd seen "emergency bridge" written as "EM" on some SSDs, so not having space for "emer" I went with that...
"Dear Mr. Name Unknown, I like your idea and echo the concerns over too many Labs. Have you considered reducing them to 6, then re-arranging the bottom halves of the outriggers to compact them? Say, by moving two Cargo over from the right to the left side, and then re-arranging boxes?"
Well the regular PCat has eight boxes to begin with and I hardly think REDUCING an SRs labs is a good idea...
Again, the reason I increased the shuttle, cargo and lab systems was simply because I needed to make up 121 boxes, for reaons I articulate in my opening post. However, if you guys can suggest other boxes I could add to allow a reduction in labs and shuttles, please do...
EDIT: Oh and ms. Sexton, I haven't gotten your e-mail (which is weird because a recent e-mail from Steve Cole came through just fine)...
I have resent the email. Please verify that any Spam traps haven't eaten it.
Basically, it does ask you to register using your full name. You account will be deleted unless you do.
We find that using your real name promotes civility and also allows you to be credited for your work.
However, if you guys can suggest other boxes I could add to allow a reduction in labs and shuttles, please do...
One of the things I liked about the Lyrans was their symmetry (soryy about spelling) with the internal structuring of both halves of their outriggers. To make the hull look more like a Tiger-class hull without having to give up much, how about this...
First, remove the 6-box lab and add two labs to each outrigger (each a 4-box lab).
Then divide the 8-bnox cargo in half for two 4-box vertical rows (one on each outrigger where the cargo and large lab set were).
Change to two (Aux) and two (Emer).
[option] Then switch placement of the cargo and the Aux/Emer so that the control spaces line up closer to the bridge (purely for astetic reasons ).
Finally, add a third probe, to replace the loss of the two labs.
I think part of the problem is you *assumed* cookie-cutterism with your pradigm. You started counting boxes, comparing the F-GSC to the F-BC and F-CA and are now forcing yourself to follow with that same proportinal box numbers.
Try going back to the drawingboard for a version 2, this time taking the L-SR and applying upgrades to that, even at the cost of removing the ability to act as a tug.
I'd take it as a given that one is sacrificing the ability to act as a tug.
"I have resent the email. Please verify that any Spam traps haven't eaten it."
Yep, I got it the second time (no idea what happened to the first, but it wasn't "eaten" by any spam traps, it just never arrived) and have rectified the situation.
Anyway, I'm considering the proposals I've recieved so far with regards to making the Galaxy Cat more dissimilar to the Fed GSC. Note that I always intended for the GCat to have no ability whatsoever to haul pods and pallets, hence why there are no provisions on the SSD I made for what it's turn class would be at different pod weights...
For the moment though, I think I might move onto the survey pallet simply because my idea for the survey pallet would give the PCat the ability to do something no survey cruiser in the game (including the PCat) can currently do...
Thanks for fixing the problem! And welcome to the BBS as yourself.
Jean
WebMom
Alright, here's the promised survey pallet...
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/CaptainTrek/SurveyPallet.jpg
As you can probably tell, this pallet is a troop transport pallet that I retooled for scientific work. You should also instantly recognise the unique ability this pallet would give to the Prairie Cat... Say you're a Lyran survey captain and you come across a star system that has two planets that are of particular interest, what do you do? Well, if you're hauling a survey pallet, you can drop the pallet off at one planet, then fly the main part of your ship to the other planet and survey them BOTH at once! What a time saver! Of course, you'd have to be careful of enemy frigate captains hoping to carry out a "raid on a survey camp" type missions, but the pallet's relatively impressive weapons battery (primarily intended to give the Prairie Cat a much needed firepower boost) will probably be enough to give any frigate a nasty surprise.
Actually, I think I probably gave the survey pallet too many phasers (two PH-2s probably would have been enough) but you get the idea; the survey pallet is basically intended to boost the Prairie Cat's abilities (both combat* and non-combat) when it is attached and be capable of independent survey operations and enough local defense to give potential marauders pause when it is not, effectively allowing the Prairie Cat to haul a (slow but heavily armed) small exploration freighter along with it into the survey zone.
*I tried to set up the survey pallet's weapon suite so that it would (when the pallet was attached) boost the Prairie Cat's weapons up to about where the Galaxy Cat's are without using any disruptors, which is the reason for the large phaser compliment.
Naturally, the capabilities of this pallet would actually render the Prarie Cat a cut above the GSC and thus I was a little dubious about whether I should even bother with it. However, it was such a nifty idea (I thought so, anyway) that I really wanted to make this SSD anyway and looking at it, I'm pleased that I did. Whilst it was certainly easier to make than the Galaxy Cat SSD, I'm really quite pleased with just how neat and clean this one came out.
I know it's terribly overpowered, but what do you think about it?
PS: Woah, I just got a MASSIVE rush a deja vu while typing this post up...
EDIT: By the way, no one's answered one of my questions yet... What should I do (if anything) about watermarking these SSDs?
There are a few things for me here. One of the things that makes the Lyran survey ship unique is its ability to carry a pallet / pod. Your improved version shouldn't lose that ability. I would approach this from two perspectives:
1) Making a slightly better survey ship, the Galaxy Cat, that when combined with a "scientific pod" would have the capabilities of a GSC.
2) Making a dedicated survey pod that would give the unimproved Prairie Cat, the capabilities of a GSC. You seem to have this covered pretty well with your survey pallet.
However, I see trouble with the first point because of how directly you are comparing the "Galaxy Cat" to the Federation GSC. I think an improved Prairie Cat, with a better weapons suite, that relied on a specially modified P-SC12 scout pod would be a better approach then making the Galaxy Cat not a tug, but with more internals.
John,
The BBS has rules somewhere for how to mark a SSD. It's embedded in requirments to have an officially recognized website displaying your stuff.
I think "copyright ADB Inc." should be sufficient. That's what I do with my SSDs.
And the current year.
"Copyright 2010, ADB Inc."
Funny thing I actually included that, but I the way I wrote it, with symbols around it, got interpreted as a HTML tag.
You know, coming back and having another look at this thread in hindsight... It occurs to me just badly I overthought the Galaxy Cat... What with my ridiculous box-counting and comparisons between the GSC and Fed BCH vs P. Cat and Lyran BCH... What I should have done was give the P. Cat two disruptors, take two phaser-2s off my "survey pallet" and then call it a night... Now THAT would have been an acceptable way to get the P. Cat up to GSC standards...