Archive through January 18, 2010
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Archive through January 18, 2010
The next fight was out of the book. The Surprise Reversed is a hoot.
24 Sept. 2009: Fed.CC v/s Rom. fleet(historical)
Turn #1: The KR,WE, and SnA pops under a hail of OV photons, phasers, and SPs. The KF5R gets hammered hard, and the BH gets released. Turn #2: The KF5R takes drone, phaser, and SShtle., and goes POP! Turn#3: BH is totally screwed by itself and goes POP!
We played this again. This time I flew a Gorn CM. The I.S.C. had a CC,CL,2 DDs, and a FF.
Turn#1: Imp.#29 Gorn launches 2 EV Plas.S at CC, 2 Plas.Fs at CL, and launches 2 SShtles. Imp.#32 CC takes 14 internals from phaser fire. Now get this!, the CC,CL, and one DD gets released. This sucks very quickly and the Gorn has to work fast. Turn#2: The CC takes the EV Plas.Ss and weakens the shields by half. The 2 Plas.Fs hit the CL and does 7 internals. Gorn later beams out 3 TBs on top of both DDs. One DD moves causing the TBs to detonate, doing moderate damage to both DDs. Gorn fires phasers on CL doing 29 internals. On Imp.16, 2 suicide shuttles hit on DD for 33 internals. Turn#3: Gorn takes 13 internals from fire of CC,CL, and DD. Gorn fires 2 Plas.Fs at range 0. I.S.C. phasers down plasmas at point blank range. Weakened F-torps do 30 internals on CC, Gorn takes 4 internals off of feedback. Turn#4: Gorn turns on FF, and fires fastloaded Plas.F and phasers causing 38 internals on said FF. I.S.C. fires Plas.Ss from CC and CL at fleeing Gorn and catches up next turn. Turn#5: 2 I.S.C. plasma Ss hit and do 28 internals on Gorn CM. We call it after this because the Gorn takes off as fast as possible. This is a fun scenario, and can go either way for the attacker, depending how fast the defending ships get released.
The ISC got lucky, but their fleet was way tougher than the Romulan one. The Gorn looks like he split too much fire so didn't kill anything. Also, I'm surprised that he didn't get to land plasma on T1 before the targets could roll for release - it would have made a big difference.
I think the start positions are close enough for a turn 1 impact, though powering two EPT may have prevented that. Overall plasma races don't ambush as well as drone users - even a single drone rack is a huge edge, two scatterpacks (buy extra reloads if necessary) plus launched Type-IV go a long way.
I'm actually kind of proud of the BCJ vs. Rom fight. I made a gamble on the second HET and lost. But even after the breakdown I still managed to destroy the SEL and then badly cripple the WER, although I was badly crippled myself. That's one reason why I love the BCJ, she takes damage very well.
We've had a few weird battles after these. Sid takes the notes on them, so he'll have to post them. But we did discover that the Drex, although fairly powerful, really suck against drones (that was a Drex BC vs. a Federation CB).
I'm looking forward to our next fight tomorrow. My BCJ, DWC, DW vs. his KRC, WE, BH. I'm expecting some Romulans to be ganging up on my ships.
I'm going to jump ahead a little. Chris and I fought a Drex BC v/s Fed. CB. Granted this is the first time I've flown a Drex, but that's no excuse.
12 Nov. 2009: Turn#1: On the first turn the Fed. launched two shuttles. Turn#2: Drex fires,(wastes) three HCLs to kill one SP, the other shuttle went inert. Fed. then launches two more shuttles. Drex goes to EM on approach. Fed. shuttle three is SP. Drex fires HCH at shuttle four, which is inert(wasted another heavy weapon). Drex dropped a TB to stop drones. Fed. fires 8 P-1s and 4 photons, does 16 internals on Drex. The Drex takes out 3 drones, then the other 3 drones impact open #3 shield, which was dropped for the TB,(mistimed the TB): nailed with 36 internals, OUCH! Turn#3: Drex has reduced power for weapons. Drex and Fed. return direct weapons fire, Fed. scores 21 more internals on Drex. After this stomping, the game is called. I have noticed that Omega ships lose their value with little power loss. There are some Omega ships that can hang with Alphas, like the Trobrin, but it's better for Omegas to fight Omegas.
The other Omega/Alpha fight I fought recently was a Trobrin CB v/s Fed. CC+. It went differently for the Omega this time. To make a long story short, I got the better of the Fed. on this one. The Trobrin ships are under BPVd a considerable amount. The Bolt Cruiser is nasty. The IBs are powerful, the Armour helps greatly to soak up internals, and the ship has lots of hull. The Trobrin bristles with PRs, which do not need to roll dice. It's a bugger for an Omega ship. The Fed. would need to step up on BPV to handle the CB. I did read that the FRA handed the Trobrin their lunch when they tried to screw around with them. I am looking forward to purchasing Omega3 for Christmas.
Sidney, if you don't mind I have a few questions about the setup for the Drex vs. Fed battle.
These were the "normal" ships from the SSD book, and unmodified, right?
Did you guys use fully refitted ships?
What were the drone speeds for the Feds?
What were the BPVs for each force (including commanders options)?
I always thought the key to most Alpha vs Omega fights was the Alpha seekers.
Omega IIRC is not abundantly supplied with seeking weapons or defenses.
Depends on the seekers in question. I found in my practice matches for an upcoming campaign that my Koligahr force was MORE than capable of handing the Romulans thier superior butts in a bag. Plasma ballets and such just are not that impressive a threat when you phaser at 1:1 at a predictable rate.
My FRA carrier groups battle tests have had no real problems with drones either. But then again, ESG escorts.
It's the Wide Angle phaser users I've found had the most trouble with drone swarms. They're by far my least favorite phaser option.
Though I found the Qixa to be unexpectedly effective at drone swarm defense. Then again having shuttles ith a phaser one equivlent makes that difference.
Omega actually compares well to most Alpha races for seeker defence so long as you look at Y150 Alpha ships. For instace the Maesron CA compares favorably to the Fed CA in this regard - both have four two turn heavies, six heavy phasers and 34 power but the Maesron also carries four light phasers and a couple of missile racks. Omega does come up short if put up against Y180 war construction, though even there it has some advantages - if expecting a fleet scale floating map fight I'd replace Alpha plasma with HEAT or DMT in a heartbeat.
In response: Yes, the ships were from the SSDs, no mods. The Fed. had refits, and I did not use the ammo refit for the Drex. The drones were fasties. The BPVs were the ship's points, no C.O.s. I wasn't quite prepared for all the SPs; I had to waste heavy weapons on killing shuttles. I think for now I'll stick to the Trobrin when fighting Feds. Any advice would be appreciated. My regular opponent is secretly a Kzinti in Fed's clothing. It's like fighting kitties with photons,UGH! Feds. can be beaten, but when they have drones, they're a mess to deal with. I'll give the details at a later time about my fight with the Feds. yesterday, let's just say it was a bad day to be Romulan.
You should look at the Koligahr. I like Microphasers myself for point defense, but also thier Anti-Matter Clouds make for good drone defense, especially against Swarms. They're highly accurate at relatively short ranges, they target a hex, not an object, so you get straight odds to fire almost every time, no ECM against you. And if I recall rightly an ACG can do enough damage to waste all but the most heavily armored drones, wiping out a whole hexstack with just one shot.
And considering ACGs are actually pretty lame against ships, there's almost no loss to doing so. Gets to fire every turn too, well, every 32 impulses, so it can be pretty reliable for taking out a good chunk of seekers. Plus side is cruisers like the CAD also have the Anti-matter Cannons, which aren't that bad of a heavy weapon all things considered.
Sidney, I know a lot of people say the Drex are under-BPVed, but you were struggling against a ship that was 125% of your ships' BPV which is nuts (you were screwed).
A fully refitted Fed CA with fast drones vs. the Drex BC (with refit) would have been a more even fight (149 vs. 140).
As for tactics against the Fed on a fixed map, play the EW game with him if you can, as the Photons are hurt badly by ECM shifts against them. Playing the range gane is good while you can, but a lot of Omegan races do not have the capability to generate "moving terrain" in the form of large amounts of seeking weapons as a deterent to closing.
Thanks for the advice. I am going to fly a Koligahr CA soon against a Fed. I recently bought Omega One and I am currently in the "getting to know you" stage with the new ships. My early favorites are the Trobrin. I find the Alunda kind of cool, but I haven't quite figured them out yet. I am looking forward to buying Omega Three for Christmas. What should I be looking forward to as far as goodies in Omega Three.
Federal Republic of Aurora? It's like an Alpha Sector twinker's dream. Fleets with mixed ESGs, three types of Photons, Tachyon Missiles, Phaser-1s, super ADDs.
I like Omega Four better. In it you'll find hands down, the most powerful for the BPV empire ever. The Branthodon Regime. Also with the Dragonship Tail you're pretty much immune to seeking weapons. They're tough as nails, there is honestly no way I can read the history and figure out how the Space Cow Alunda beat them. Dragonships are way under-pointed. They make the Drex Unity ships look overpriced.
Played two scenarios with my new recruit to SFB. He was getting tired of standard duels and wanted to break out of his comfort zone (which has basically been the Klingon D7 - at various levels of refit - against other cruisers and in one case, two smaller Hydrans):
Scenario #1: The Gorn/Romulan Early Years scenario from CL #29 where a Gorn destroyer needs to drop its assault team onto a planet at least 2 turns before the scenario ends to win the game (various levels of victory given/removed for damage to ships, and especially if the Gorn can recover the team and escape the map within 8 turns. I had my doubts... And they turned out to be founded. As far as we can tell there's absolutely no way for the Romulans to win the scenario if the Gorn doesn't care about recovering its team. The Snipe is the only ship which can possibly get a shot off before the Gorn lands the team, and even if it hits with its Plasma Bolt, won't even break through the armor of the Gorn. Landing the team and disengaging gives the Gorn the 2nd highest level of victory. Sticking around is foolish, at least if the goal is to win the scenario. Maybe Y1 changed the ships such that what was a balanced scenario is no longer winnable by the Romulans, but I suggest swapping the positions of the two Romulan ships to make it the Warbird that's guaranteed to get a shot on the hex the Gorn has to enter next to the planet. Even then, it's pretty unlikely the Gorn's transporter will be knocked out before it gets to land the team, but that's the only chance the Romulans have to make it interesting.
Scenario #2: The Basic Set scenario where the Klingon F5 tracks down and attacks the Kzinti Aux-CVL. This one was a lot more interesting, but my friend (flying the Klingon) spent too much time worrying about the shuttles and fighters than the ship, which was able to disengage without being fired on and with 6 fighters on board still. We'll probably try it again at some point, now that he knows the ship is the target... Part of the 'problem' is his approach. He's very methodical, doesn't like to leave threats (even shuttles) around, and doesn't like taking actual damage. 
Well, 2009 has been a good year for death and mayhem in my corner of the SFB universe. I have closed out the year with some interesting fights. One of the good ones was between a Klingon D5k,(me)v/s a Wyn CW,(Chris).
TURN 1- i26, Klg. fires 4 Disr., launches shtl.
i27, Wyn launches 2 T1s and a shtl.
i32, Wyn, fires 4 Disr.
TURN 2- i2, Klg. SP pops out 6 T1s.
i3, Wyn SP pops, 2 TIVs,2 TIs, launches 2 more drones.
Klg., takes out 2 drones w/ADDs.
i4, Wyn launches another shtl.
i6, Klg. ADDs kill drones.
Wyn, ADDs wiff.
i7-9, Wyn ADDs and phasers take out more drones.
i10, Klg. ADDs take out drones, fires 4 OV Disr. and 2 P-1s. Wyn #2 shield out, 15 Int.
i11, Wyn fires 2 OV Disr. and 2 P-1s, takes out Klg.#5 shield.
i12, Wyn SP pops @range 4, 4 TIs and 1 TIV. UGH!, not cool.
i13, Klg. launches 2 T IVs @ range one, and fires ADDs @ Wyn drones, 2 gone.
i14-16, Klg. wiffs on ADD fire, defensive gunners go out airlock!
i17, Klg. fires and throws kitchen sink, all but one drone is gone.
i18, Klg. takes TI through open #5 shield for 12 Int.
TURN 3- i20, Wyn fires TI drone.
i21, Klg. ADD kills drone.
i24, Klg. fires 2OV Disr., 3 P-1s, almost takes out Wyn #1 shield.
Wyn, fires 2st.,1OV Disr.,2 P-1s, takes out #3 shield.
i26, Wyn fires through down #3 shield and does 12 Int.
i27, Klg. fires at Wyn #1 shield and takes it out, no Int.
i28, Klg. and Wyn exchange defensive fire at drones.
CALLED!
This was a good little fight. The Wyn got the better of me. The Orca CW is tough bugger.
Another good series of fights between the Feds. and Klingons involved flying heavy battlecruisers against dreadnaughts. It is not totally unheard of. When an enemy BCH raids enemy space, it may run into a nasty surprise, or visa versa. Space is not fair! The first fight was between a Fed. BCJ and Klg.C5. The C5 came out better because of bad ADD rolls by the Fedheads and the bulk of the C5 helped. The second fight was between a Fed. DNL and Klg. C7. The C7 went BOOM! The Startigers are nasty
"light" DNs. The third fight was between a Fed. BCJ and Klg. C9. The BCJ took over 30 Int. but the Fed. connected on a full alpha strike with Overloads and did heavy internals on the C9. We could have fought on but time was getting late. The BCJ is a tough bugger and is not afraid of DNs.
Here are what I consider 'The Classic Fights'.
All of these fights use the setup in the Basic Set scenario The Duel, with following mods:
Year is Y150 unless otherwise specified.
No Commander's Option Points. This means no t-bombs, modified drones, etc.
Fixed map.
The Match-up's:
Klingon F5 vs Fed FF.
The Fed is a smaller ship with a BIG hammer. The F5 is a good destroyer....but has a glass.....butt.
Klingon E4 vs Fed POL.
This is one of the great frigate fights of all time (the POL is actually a light frigate, you know...)
Fed CA vs Klingon D7.
The classic. Still one of the best.
Fed CL OR DD vs Klingon D6.
Strange fight. The Fed CL is abit outgunned, but has more power than the DD...while the DD has, technically, more firepower....but fights more efficiently by NOT overloading its torps. The D6 commander has energy to spare, but lacks crunch power....
Fed DD vs Kzinti CL.
2 oddball ships fighting it out. The scenario 'The Stasis Box' is the classic set-up, with a twist. The Fed DD is a light cruiser in disguise, while the Kzinti ship is undergunned...until the refits, anyway.
Lyran DD vs Klingon F5.
For those that think the F5 isn't a destroyer...think again.
Lyran FF vs Klingon E4.
A good match-up for the E4.
Klingon E3 vs Kzinti FF.
A surprisingly good fight. Can turn into a real nail-biter.
Fed CA vs Gorn CA.
Good training scenario for new plasma players.
The Classic Romulan Fights:
These are all post-Smarba, obviously.
Fed CA vs Rom KR.
Good for newbie Roms. Cloaking isn't a very good idea, however, even if he DOESN'T have t-bombs.Also, note that with no CO points, the Rom does NOT have an NSM.
Fed CL vs Rom WE.
THE classic fight. Good training scenario for Rom newbies to learn the cloaking rules.And the WE DOES have an NSM...heheh.
Fed DD vs Rom WE.
Different dynamic than the Fed CL...but can be even more deadlier if underestimated by the Romulan captain.
Replacing the WE with a BH in the above battles
results in more fluid battles that emphasize mobility over 'sub-hunting'. Plus, the BH is very fun to fly. Like the Fed DD, it's actually a CL in disguise....
The Fed. CL v/s the KLg. D6 is a great "classic" fight. Turn One: uneventful. Turn Two: The Klingon took out two shields, but no internals. The Fed. nailed me with 4 P-1s and 2 full OV photons with good die rolls. The Klingon took 33 internals, OUCH! Turn Three: Fed. took 7 internals. Turn Four: Both ships traded volleys, Klingon took 6 internals, Fed. took 14 internals. Turn Five: Fed. took one more internal, then we called it. The Fed. CL is a tough ship even with sucky shields. With the armour, F.Hull, A.Hull, and labs; you get 24 "freebies". The D6 does run circles around the CL, and if you do some nasty turning and burning the lack of crunch power can be dealt with.
The second "classic" fight was between a Fed.DD+ and a Klg.D6b. This fight was also well balanced. The DD+ is not quite as durable, but if you are patient you can OV all the photons. It does have a little more firepower. The Klingon still has the agility edge, and the b-refit gives it more drone capabilities. All in all these two fights are good ones. It may be better for beginning Klingons to fly the D6 before taking on that Fed. CA with a D7.
Yeah, you gotta love the old flathead CL. Like fighting a brick wall.
One of the last fights I participated in last year was an Alpha-Omega fight between a Fed. CS and a Kolighar CA. My friend was wanting to fly the CS and it was suggested on this forum to try the Kolighar against the Alphas.
TURN ONE: i32- Fed. launches T1 and TIV drones.
TURN TWO: i7- Fed. fires 2 photons that wiff.
i8- Fed. fires 1 T1 drone.
Kol. phasers down drones.
i9 and i10- Fed. fires 2 OV phtns. and 6 P-1s causing 28 internals on Kol.
Kol. fires 3 doubled ACs and 3 PM-1s causing 2 internals on Fed. Phasers down another drone.
TURN THREE: i11- Fed. fires P-3s through open shield causing 4 internals on Kol.
i15- Kol. ACG takes out Fed. shtle.#1.
i17- Fed. launches shtle.#2.
i22- Kol. ACG takes out Fed. shtle.#2.
i23- Fed. launches shtle.#3.
i31- Fed. SP pops out 2 TIs and 2 TIVs.
TURN FOUR: i5- Kol. phasers down 3 drones.
i6- Fed. TI drone hits Kol. #5 shield.
i12- Kol. fires 2 double ACs, minimal damage.
TURN FIVE: i18- Fed. fires TI drone.
Kol. fires 2 double ACs and 3 PM1s doing no internals.
i20- Fed. fires another TI drone.
Kol. phasers down drone.
i23- Kol. phasers drone another drone.
TURN SIX: i30- Fed. fires 2 ST. photons and 2 P1s doing no internals.
Kol. fires 2 ST ACs and 3 PM1s doing 3 internals on Fed.
i31- Fed. fires 2 P1s and 2 OV phtns., they wiff.
GAME CALLED
This was a good game. The Federation got the upper hand in damage. The Kolighar CA did hold it's own pretty well with moderate damage. The ACGs are neat little toys. If you are fighting the Kolighar do not stack your fighters or drones, the ACGs will take them out. The ACs are good in the fact that they can fire every 32 impulses.
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that one. I must say that I was pretty impressed with the CS. If the Federation had built the CS instead of the NCL, the Klingons would have had a lot more dead D5s.
As for the Federation DD vs D6. That's why I love the DD. How many races have a destroyer that can actually challenge a light cruiser (well, besides the ISC)? This week, we're doing a DD+ vs. an F5L and then a DDG+ vs an F5WK. I'm looking forward to those.