Archive through August 14, 2010
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
General Tactics:
Archive through August 14, 2010
Its a bad dream many of us have chosen to pretend never happened.
Well now, this has gotten my curiosity up.
Does the same thing apply to the Federation old heavy cruiser...the one that looks like a heavy version of the old light cruiser? I've always wondered why I've never seen any mention of it before.
The DD(M) is, I believe, only present so far in Captain's Log #33. Combined with the G3 (Master Annex file) Master Ship Chart, it creates something of a conundrum - particularly for those who run campaigns.
The problem comes in with the status of Captain's Logs. Effectively everything in them is 'Playtest Material' (at least the crunchy bits like rules, scenarios, ships). However, it's sometimes hard to tell whether the ships themselves are now 'canon' even if the official version has yet to be released (in an R supplement, or in the case of the DD(M), any Middle Years supplement).
For Campaigns, it's probably relatively easy to just ignore it since it's not yet an official ship (or at least an official SSD). And yet, the DD(M) is listed as a 'regular production warship' in the G3 Master Annexes and the regular DD's Year In Service has been changed to Y160. So... since G3 is an 'official' product, you have two choices:
1) Treat the DD(M) as never happened, which means ignoring the official G3 YIS dates for the DD / DD(M) and have the DD's YIS be Y130 (presumably what it is in the Basic Set).
2) Treat the G3 Master Ship Chart as the gold standard, and use the DD(M) instead of the DD from Y130 - Y160, but this means using a 'playtest' SSD from a Captain's Log.
(For most of the Captain's Log 'playtest' ships, this isn't really an issue because they represent variants, failed experiments, whole new classes. But in this case, it's actually saying that a previously accepted timeline is wrong, which leads to mayhem and stuff... but presumably not madness 
).
The DD(M) is the wussed up two torpedo version of the DD, right?
As for the DD vs. D6 matchup, the DD can get more than one shot. Trust me, I've done it before, more than once. Ask Sid, he was using the D6 the last time I ran a DD against one.
I am in agreement. If the Federation DD gets in close and connects with all photons plus the SIX phaser ones, the D6 is toast. A good Fed. DD captain can over time get all four photons to overload. One of the banes of disruptors is the fact you cannot hold them, photons you can. There are very few destroyers in the game that can actually be a SERIOUS threat to a heavy cruiser. The Fed. DD is underestimated by alot of people, this is coming from a primarily Klingon player. Would you fly a Klingon F5L against a Fed. CA? Not me.
Actually, the trick to flying the Fed DD is to NOT overload the photons.
Do the math, and you'll see why.
And yes, the phasers are the actual main weapon on the DD...the torps are there for Extra Crunchy Goodness..
Overloading the torpedoes can be done, just not all at once, and at least one will probably be a 12 pt warhead (the + refit helps out a lot). The key phrase is "over time." Can you load all four 16 pt OLs at the same time, of course not. But since you can hold a photon torpedo, and OL it gradually, it is doable. Plus, don't overlook the intimidation factor of going slow so the D6 thinks you're trying to OL all four tubes, then you announce a speed increase because you were actually only overloading one or two tubes, the others holding standards (even 2 or 3 standard photon torpedoes from a destroyer hull can ruin a D6 captain's day). I do agree that the phasers are used more on the DD.
Is the DD as versatile as the CL or CA, no. Can it used effectively, yes. Would I take the DD against an F5, F5C, or D6, yes. Against a D7, maybe one time to see how long I last, but I wouldn't expect it to be too long.
Overloads are always tempting, but standards are way more flexible on the DD. You have the same power-to-damage output as if you were overloading two photons only, plus you have the advantage of switching to proxies if the Klink decides to go for a saber-dance. Those glass rear shields only take a couple of hits to bring down, even with proxies. If the D6 decides to turn back in, you actually out-phaser him at close range, so warm up a couple of tractor beams to catch his point-blank drones.
One tactic is to FAKE like you're in the middle of overloading your torps (slow speed plot), but put the excess energy into your front shield. When you bounce his disruptor fire, be ready to either answer with proxies at his rear shields if he turns away, or to switch to normal loads if he keeps coming in. If he's already inside range-8 at the turn break, then you can plot another slow speed and dump your warp into as many overloads as you can afford.
It's a tough fight for the DD, no doubt. The D6 out-BPVs him by roughly 20% and SHOULD win this fight. But a lazy or sloppy Klingon can find himself in for a rude surprise.
In a battle where an X-ship/non-X fleet is fighting another fleet of the same:
If the players are not using generated EW, whats the opinion of the board on how that would degrade the effectiveness of the X-ships? In a battle using generated EW, the X-ships would get a -1 modifier on their fire if they have more ECCM than the target's ECM. Do you think X-ships losing this particular aspect of their operation to be a serious issue? Or a minor one? Does anyone have a house rule that they use in such situations?
I was thinking that, in such a battle, X-ships should be allowed a single point of EW that they can change every 8 impulses. It would allow them to be as effective as the X rules intended. Does this seem like too much in a scenario where non-X ships have no generated EW at all?
The reason I ask is that the guys I get together with use tournament rules for EW. Of course they exempt the Omega races with all their weird EW shenanigans. I have thought about using an X ship during some of the battles, but the lack of a fire modifier makes them a lot less appealing.
What do ya all think?
That would work. I see weapons' accuracy as a significant part of X-ship benefits.
One point sounds reasonable. In my personal opinion most X-ships are good value - I've played in games where X-ships got no special rules and they were still popular.
The EW makes X-ships more effective than GW ships at long range, where their extra reserve power also allows them to reinforce off the smallish answering volleys. In close, it's a bit less important. As such, it's a fairly important part of X-ship tactics. It's also part of the strategic value of X-ships, in that they can win a battle without getting decisively engaged.
In the past, we've just given X-ships the -1 on weapon die rolls. Giving it a point of EW that can be changed every 8 impulses sounds like an interesting idea.
If you're going to give X-ships EW when nobody else has it, at least make them pay for it.
they get 1 pt of EW for one point of power.
Yes, they can change it every 8 impulses but each change costs a point of reserve power each time.
X-ships have plenty of power and reserve power so this shouldn't be a problem.
I was thinking 2 or 3 points of power for the EW point....not to make it too easy for the X-ship.
Andy,
Maybe I'll use some kinda X-ship against your Battleship next time, eh!
Considering it's using that power to gain an uncontested EW advantage 2-3 points is not out of line at all.
In an EW-using game it would probably be spending more
I have a couple of questions about a starbase assault. How do you determine the BPV of the attack fleet? Is there a "standard" BPV or fleet for such an assault? I know the rules state that there are 4-6 police ships, 2-3 frigates or destroyers, and 1 light cruiser at the disposal of the base commander. It would be common sense that not all of these units would stay "parked" at the base at all times; war or not. What is a sensible way to determine what ships are "home" and what ships are on patrol? I am also aware that modules, fighters, and PFs would add to the defender's BPV. Any feedback on this subject would be appreciated.
I know there is a published "Assault on a Starbase" scenario. I forget where it is, probably either Advanced Missions or Module R1.
Sidney, that would dep0-end on how the SB assualt 'started'. Those ships listed above would be on patrol/customs/etc.
If part of a campaign (Admiral's Game), he has whatever is close at hand (reaction/reserve).
If a pick-up, he will likely have as many BPV (minus the SB and fighters/PFs) as you...
otherwise, it's whatever is negotiated...
I'm sure this question is like oil or tire questions on motorcycle forums and it is not my intention to start a holy war but...
Given your druthers, which ship pound for pound is the best in the SFB universe in the following classes?
Stock-
Refitted-
X-
Troy, without knowing the mission, there is no answer for that unless you're talking about a JOAT-type...
Scenario conditions matter a lot too. Even just assuming combat use some ships do much better than others with or without EW, on small or floating maps, alone or massed, against a seeker or a direct fire opponent, against X or regular ships).
That said, the Klingon D5 is almost always a solid choice. At worst it's competitive.
Ok fair enough. The one ship you you would chose in some sort of twisted Q (the crazy alien who pestered Picards crew) style scenario where you will face different challenges from all the known races. Some challenges you may have a better BPV others you may be disadvantaged. In other words each scenario would require application of assets such as power, manuever, firepower, ability to withstand damage etc.
I'm positing that there must be one ship that is so utilitarian and outstanding regardless of situation that would always be chosen first by Captains. I'm looking for opinions on the best swiss army knife in the SFB universe. So rather than considering the scenario and then choosing the best tool for the job, consider the ship that would have the most capability and survivability in any situation.
Troy:
The Federation BCF. A wide variety and outstanding level of firepower, above average shielding, good power curve, excellent batteries, copious labs (important for both science and emergency repairs), good DC rating, decent hull, decent number of transporters, good number of shuttles and MRS-eligible. It can even command a fleet if it needs to, but flies quite nicely alone. The redundant protection of the photons provided by the plasma-Fs can also be a significant advantage in heavy combat.
For standard technology, and if cost isn't a factor, you're hard-pressed to find a more well-rounded design that can perform most missions quite well than the BCF.
Any of the BCHs could be used, or DNHs (although the Lyrans could go slightly smaller if dragging PFs is possible)...