X2 Hull Box Changes
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board: The "X" Files: OLD X2 FOLDER: X2 Hull Box Changes
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By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 08:49 am: Edit

Tos' Structural Integrity Field Proposal

Effect:
· A ship equipped with SIF technology can generate a Structural Integrity Field.
· Each point of power applied to the SIF protects one hull/lab/barracks/command hit rolled on the DAC. The SIF offers no direct protection to any other type of DAC hit.
· The SIF is destroyed and ceases to function immediately upon the first Excess Damage hit. It is repaired when every system it protects is fully repaired.

Power:
· Power applied to a SIF is effective only for the current turn.
· Any damage received or strength remaining in a SIF from a prior turn is ignored.
· Only energy applied during EA can be used to power a SIF. No reserve power.
· The field can be powered to any strength with a maximum allocation equal to the current DamCon rating.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 08:52 am: Edit

That's very, very similar to what I play tested. I'd add one little wrinkle; it can only protect it's rating if that many protected boxes are still undamaged on the ship. That is, if you have it powered up to protect five boxes, you have to have a minium of five boxes still un-damaged. Keeps the owner from protecting one box with five points of ASIF. It happened in playtesting, and we implemented this rule.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 09:46 am: Edit

That's an addendum I can agree with. Alternatively we could say no single box could be protected more than once per turn, which does nearly the same thing without providing excessive benefit to ships with plenty of control. This would be harder to play but more realistic.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 11:13 am: Edit

One of the very early arguements against the ASIF was that if it takes one power to protect one box then why not just put it into sheild reinforcement where it would protect every type of internal?

It was that arguement I couldn't get around until I came up with my system. 1:1 wasn't good enough and something else like 2:1 or 3:1 was too good out right.

So I came up with forcing a commitment of a certain level of power. If you took little damage then it didn't pay off well. If you took a lot of damage it paid off very well.

I also sat down and thought about what Structural reinforcement system would do for a ship and why it would be implemented.

A) To handle the stresses placed on the hull design. X-Tech is supposed to stress hull designs and so I believe the ASIF is what makes X2 possible. It is the root system that allows the hulls to be designed the way they are.

B)These ships will be extra valuable ships meter for meter. They need to be preserved as best possible should combat occure. So, with the force field system in place it was a little matter of tying it in with the Damage Control systems throughout the ship.

C) Huge amount of casualties were incurred during the past wars. The ASIF should help to preserve life on X2 ship. By protecting hull (remember, the place where the crew live is usually considered free hits in SFB!) better the casualty to damage ratio turns in favor of crew survival. This is also used as a PR point. If you are assigned a tour on a X2 ship, your specific chances of survival are better than ever before. Remember, not to long ago those chances were probably closer to "sacrafic your self at the dotted line".

C1) Crew longevity is of the utmost importance to all the races as their best crews and most experienced command were lost in the past wars. Every race needs to replenish this top tier elite in their ranks as soon as possible. The ASIF is a tool to this end as much as preserving the ship (a very expensive ship).

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 12:21 pm: Edit

My ASIF sidesteps the problem Loren outlines.

It gives more protection but, like a shield, takes more to repair.

We have several shield proposals on the table: shield shunting, regenrating shields, "swing" shield boxes.

All contribute to making X2 ships "eggshells with a slegehammers" because they do not allow X2 to take a punch any better and damage output is expected to rise. The "expected to rise" part may not be as true as it once was.

It's two different philosopies. ASIF is oriented toward taking damage better. shield tricks are oriented toward avoiding damage.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 01:04 pm: Edit

Which reminds me of my CPS thing so I'll toot my own horn here:

(XGrbn1.0) CRITICAL PROTECTIVE SYSTEM (CPS)
The CPS is a Commander's Option (S3.2) system which can be added to a ship prior to a scenario. The system is basically a stand-alone unit which is designed to protect a specific box on the SSD (or Cloaking Device/UIM/etc.). Once emplaced (its protected box marked with a "P") it can not be moved during the scenario. It can protect its original box or any one connected box (e.g. Lab boxes). It requires 1/2pt from any source to operate which must be allocated each turn; once allocated the power is considered used for purposes of (D22.0). During the turn it sits in "stand-by" mode, monitoring its protected box for incoming damage. When damage comes into the ship, and the DAC die roll is made, this device provides a "last chance" for protected systems by generating a shaped deflector shield burst which shunts the damage out of the ship. The devices are burned out on use and can not be repaired. A CPS can protect any system except engines, heavy weapons (including drones and drone launchers), sensors (but can protect scout channels), scanners, DAMCON, EXDAM, or Shields. During a Hit-and-Run raid (D7.8) against a protected system, a CPS acts as a Guard (D7.83) with a -1 die roll modifier to (D7.831), but can not act as its own Guard. A CPS may act as a Guard and protect its system normally during the same turn (unless it is burned out prior to H&R). A CPS costs 5 Commander's Option (S3.1) points on any X-ship, but costs 6 points (to reflect the advanced technology) on any non-X-ship. CPS became widely available in Y205. X2-ships automatically come with two CPS (accounted for in BPV).
John T., if you get a chance would you add this to your website please?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 01:50 pm: Edit

BTW: My just to be clear, there is nothing in my ASIF proposal to be repaired. THere is a point that it stops functioning but I haven't decided exactly were that is. Probably when the ship takes Excess damage.

In practice mine is very simple and requires very little record keeping beyond each volley of damage.

To differentiate shuttle and cargo damaged wile protected the box is marked with a large dot instead of a slach. That way when repaired the contents can be noted as saved. (Cargo is 50% saved, super valuable on CV and other scenarios) and Shuttles are not fully destroyed but reduced to crippled damage (whatever that is). While the ASIF is powered.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

I should add that one of my goals was that the ASIF require very little attention and is only put into use when a bennifit is wanted. Otherwise it has little effect on game play. It is a tool one can implement or not.

I'm not saying other ASIF proposals are complicated just mentioning that my proposal isn't.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 03:41 pm: Edit

Very true, Loren.

There is no "repair" to your ASIF and it is very simple to use.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 09:36 pm: Edit

I went for 1:1 because I don't want people to use it every turn. Its an emergency system to be used once the shields fail.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Quote:

So I came up with forcing a commitment of a certain level of power. If you took little damage then it didn't pay off well. If you took a lot of damage it paid off very well.


I've been standing there for a long time.

I don't mind having a 4:1 ratio at times ( although since people must Excess damage boxes it's slightly less than that ) on hull boxes if they only double the remaining hull boxes ( meaning it isn't WAY better than shield reinfrcement once you are heavily damage and also it isn't much better than shield reinforcement if you only take a little damage.


Quote:

I went for 1:1 because I don't want people to use it every turn. Its an emergency system to be used once the shields fail.


I'm perfectly okay with higher than 1:1 ratios...as I mentioned above I think even 4:1 is okay.

There's several reasons for this ( and it applies to my ASIF than any other ).
• SSReo will protect Phasers and Torps whilst ASIF won't.
• Hull boxes basically occour on the A6, B7 and A8 results which in turn creates a 16/36 effectiveness ( after about 18 point of damage the B5 and B9 kick in to make it 22/36 but only lasts until the last hull boxes is destroyed.
• Every point of power that goes into the ASIF is one point of power less for GSReo or SSReo...particlualrly with respect to arming the ASIF with BTTY, 4 or more impulses ahead of time.

These factors all come together in my veiw toi give people a reason to use the ASIF.


I went for 1:1 because I don't want people to use it every turn. Its an emergency system to be used once the shields fail.
I too don't want people using it every turn but by the same token I don't want people raising the ASIF after they've taken immence damage so that they can creep out of battle with the crew surviving, that energy is better spent on escape.

I want the ASIF use to be a SKILL in it's own right. You don't activate it every turn because if you're not going to take any internal damage this turn, it's a waste of power and indeed causes more damage to you as you have less power for SSReo or GSReo.
BUT if you wait until you're far too damaged to use it well, then it's a waste of energy.

The skill is knowing when you'll take a large enough amount of internal damage to make it worth the power and activating it at least four impulses before that event.


The ASIF as a limp-away system is a bad idea in my opinion...a badly damaged ship should just put all of it's energy into leaving.
It should be a defensive choice. "Shall I generate shield reinforcement and try to keep my shield up and my weapon looses small or should I kiss goodbye my shield in the knowledge that the internals I do take will be minimised substantially???"

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