| By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 02:49 am: Edit |
I'm not sure if FLEET is defined all that well.
If the GW ships are in the hands of Indie worlds but by fair means or foul, the varrious glactic power have some Indie worlds in their back pocket then the you could see the dirty work of reclaiming being done by a select group of Indie worlds.
| By Jim Cummins (Jimcummins) on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 11:33 am: Edit |
I think you could have GW ships in the hands of the independent worlds/ nescient empires in the expanded neutral zones.
The empires would have the x1 and X2 fleets, and would support their “allies” in the independent region to expand their influence and restore their borders.
As for the LMC, as I recall, there are three routes to the LMC from the alpha quadrant, so I assume the areas where these routes terminate, would be hot commodities, to control the lucrative trade routes into the LMC.
| By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:17 pm: Edit |
I don't think SVC intends for the empires themselves to abandon GW-tech ships. I get the impression they're still center-stage even if they're sharing the spotlight.
How that sharing manifests is an interesting question. I've suggested one way. Others are no doubt-possible. Another interesting question is reverse-engineering a galactic situation where the shared spotlight is the sensible thing to do.
I agree with Joe that the CB would likely be the Fed CA or CC for the post-andro time-period. The idea is enhanced by the CX as a CB-refit. I would expect most races to go back to the drawing board in designing the next generation of GW-tech ships and Joe has some good ideas on what those ships might look like.
| By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 07:50 pm: Edit |
And what does abandon mean.
There'll always be more DB targets to deal with than DB ships availible and with a few fast DB X2 ships and whole heck of a lot of slow ones, the Klingons are not going to completely opt out of using D6Ds but the D6Ds will be the ships to get the last crew assignments of the handful of new recruits the Klingons are getting in now that the war has ended.
X2 ships should form a larger part of the percentage of the fleet over the period Y205 to Y225.
But there are two ways to acheive this ( and both can occour simaltainiously ); reduce the numbetr of GW ships, increase the number of X2 ships.
Probably in the Period Y202 to Y210 the swing towards X2 was quite rapid because of the reduction of GW ships.
Now this is not so say that GW ships will not still be the bulk of the varrious fleets in Y225, just that those ships that are best suited to slower/cheaper/easier-to-maintain vessels such as mine-layers, freighters, galactic survey vessels, Drone Bombardment, convoy escort, etc, shall tend to be the GW ships.
| By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 12:58 pm: Edit |
Hi!
I've been thinking about the implications of the X2-era timeline (or the Seventh and Eighth Cycles, if you prefer) from the data given in the Omega modules and Module C5 (where the Magellanic timeline is to be found).
But before I begin, let me point out that the Darwin did not come from the future directly - it had originally uncovered the RTN in Y195, been sucked into a temporal rift yo Y207, and when it went back through the rift it was restoring its proper timeline (think of the Next Generation episode 'Yesterday's Enterprise').
If we want to see an example of a power that was up on its feet, as it were, after recovering its territory from the Andromedans, there is the Iridani Cluster.
The Andros conquered the Cluster in the early Y190s (after smashing the Iridani New Kingdom - an attempt by the Iridani to establish colonies in the Milky Way proper) and attempted to build a Desecrator starbase there - but they had not counted on the sheer number of Iridani ships out in the galaxy. The Grand Quest was launched in Y195 (I think) and culminated in the liberation of Iridia two years later.
Now, apparently enough remained of the Iridani worlds to support the launching of Crusade fleets into the Omega Octant by Y200 or so (one such Crusader fleet stopped a huge Andromedan force from conquering the Federal Republic of Aurora) - and since the Iridani figured about the RTN, they were able to pass on the data to the Omega powers in the aftermath of Operation Unity. This, in turn, led to the culmination of the war in Omega in Y204's Operation Conceerted Strike, when a united force drove into the Ryn Nebula and destroyed the last major Andromedan holdouts.
Now, from this we can guess that a few things may have happened:
1)The Andros did relatively little damage to planet-bound infrastructures on Iridia and the colonies, as they were content to 'oblige' the locals to supply materials for the Desecrator.
2)The Iridani had hide-out asteroid bases in the Cluster (similar to the ones which the Magellanic Powers used for decades after their worlds had been conquered) and these served as an impromptu shipyard/logistics node when the Cluster was liberated.
3)The Iridani are pretty industrious go-getters as a race, and simply managed to 'bounce back' in a relatively short period of time (maybe helped by cannibalised parts and modules from the Grand Quest armada).
Or,
4)Elements from all of the above are true.
Also, the amount of damage done to conquered races in the LMC varied widely - while the Eneen subject races and the Uthiki were virtually exterminated (the Uthiki blasted from orbit, the subject races worked to death), the worlds of the three Magellanic Powers seemed to be less harshly treated (though still treated pretty harshly...)
It seems that depending on the perceived worth of a particular race or planet (according to the Andros, at least) the fate of conquered races can vary considerably, though it's never pleasant.
(It's ironic that we know about the War outside Alpha than in it, but maybe if the Andro threat file book is done, we'll get a thorough look at the War in all of its major theatres.)
Gary
| By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, June 10, 2007 - 06:27 pm: Edit |
It’s been a while since we’ve talked about X2 and the Trade Wars. I’ve filtered through some of the posts and come up with this summary that I think will make for an enjoyable period.
History (R10.1B):
Y197: "At the height of their power (Y197) the Andromedans had reduced the Romulan, Gorn, ISC, Lyran and Hydran Empires to small areas around their home systems (perhaps a dozen F&E hexes). The other races had suffered less only because the Andros had not attacked them yet.”
Y198: “by Y198 the RTN network had been heavily disrupted as survey cruisers and scouts hunted down the bases for the cruisers (including the late-war super-heavy cruisers [undefined] and X-cruisers) to destroy.”
Y201: Operation Unity begins.
Y202: Operation Unity ends with the destruction of the Andromedan Star Base in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud.
Y20?: The Trade Wars begin
Y205: X2 vessels first appear in service.
You all know this. What’s the point?
Summary:
1) The Empires are reduced to a dozen F&E hexes post Y197.
2) Major combat operations end in Y202.
3) Trade War Begins.
In a short five year period, Y198-202, the galactic powers went from a few F&E hexes to launching Operation Unity and defeating the Andros. When did they have time to integrate their lost colonies? They didn’t.
The Andros did their jobs well. They weren’t so interested in population centers, but they were quite effective at destroying every piece of offensive military infrastructure they could find. While the Empires each claimed their pre-General War borders in reality, if you were a colony outside the core area you probably haven’t seen an Empire ship in your system since the ISC moved in around Y186. If you were lucky enough to be a self sufficient Federation border colony you may not have seen a Federation ship since the Klingon invasion of Y171. How do you think that colony is likely to react when a Federation Cruiser sails up in Y203 and asks for 32 years of back taxes? The American colonies faced a similar question in 1776, and I expect a similar answer.
The Empires all claim their pre-General War borders, but lacked the infrastructure to make good on the claim. The abandoned colonies were forced to arrange for their own defense during the Andro War and are now heavily fortified. Not even the Klingon Empire after a generation of warfare had the stomach to launch ground assaults on thousands of rebellious colonies, so all but a few were allowed to keep their independence. This sets the stage for the Trade Wars.
In the post Andro War era the Empires need raw materials to rebuild, which means trade with their former colonies. The colonies need some assurance that they can retain, and protect by force if necessary, their independence. The least expensive solution was for the Empires to purchase trading rights and allegiance with their lost colonies using surplus warships as currency.
How can a war as desperate as the Andro War end with surplus ships? The Andros with their RTN were fast raiders capable of striking when and where they wished. The only defense the Empires could mount was to heavily defend all key infrastructure points. That took lots of ships; ships the empires could no longer afford after the Andros were defeated. This need for quantity over quality was a key reason why X1 tech ships never made up a larger portion of the fleet.
In this new era of free trade skirmishes were fought over trading rights. Whichever Empire could provide protection for trading routes was traded with. From year to year the strongest Empire in a region would change. The newly independent colonies were allowed to trade with whichever partner offered the best terms. Gifts of surplus military equipment from foreign powers influenced who would trade what with whom.
In addition to Empire-Colony-Empire conflict, Pirates and Privateers operated in a target rich environment. Paramilitary trade cartels sprang up to secure the trade routes that the Empires couldn’t or wouldn’t secure, becoming an armed power in their own right.
From a meta-game perspective we have independent colonies with a hodge-podge of technologies acquired over the years, Empires flying around in precious new X2 ships, interstellar cooperatives like the Orions and Vudar playing the role of mini-Empires, trade cartels that provide armed convoy support, and of course we have pirates and privateers aplenty. With so many competing interests we have established a background that provides us the historical opportunity to array practically any combination of forces against each other.
This is not the established history of the Trade Wars. This is an X2 proposal designed to provide the historical background that enables cross-generational battles in practically any combination. It is hoped that by enabling multi-racial forces from across time periods we can develop the game beyond Empire-on-Empire conflict.
| By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 12:21 am: Edit |
Nice, very nice.
| By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 05:32 pm: Edit |
Tos,
Perhaps the X2 cruiser (XCA) could be available as prototype in Y201. It would take a few years before the XCA go into production.
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 07:08 pm: Edit |
Or it prototypes in Y205 and it take afew years to get X2 production rolling.
| By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 10:18 pm: Edit |
I wouldn't want to release anything that might interfere with OpU.
| By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 11:15 pm: Edit |
I agree. OpU ends in Y202. If the prototype comes out at toward the end of the OpU campaign then that wouldn't happen.
The ships that fought in the OpU campaign would be worn out and left in the LMC or scrapped. The XCAs could continue on to the GMC, toward the Xork ship of the galaxy, to some other satelite galaxy etc. The field experience gained from Y202 to Y205 would be used to perfect the technology.
The SSD could have these perfected systems listed like the refits on the Fed CA (CAR+).
As an option perhaps these prototype XCAs could be in the X1R module. I haven't seen that there will be much in the way of new rules in X1R so there might be space for some of the X2 rules.
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