After contacting the Judge and Kludge we determined that Kludge had used transporter energy from an earlier version of his allocation. As a result his batteries could not cover his HET. We resumed the fight from EA of turn 2.

Turn 2A
I didn't have the power to reload, move and overload, so I went slow and put 7 in tractor.
Plotted speed 4 for 8 impulses, then stop and TAC followed by acceleration to 9 for last 3 moves.
I weaseled off the plasma and Kludge HETed away. I left the fire control off to decoy the SS into the weasel. I dumped batteries into movement, keeping speed 4 until imp 18, then speed 14. Fire control came up too late to shoot the f-torp that hit my down #2, so the phasers had to fire at effective range 2. Plasma did 4 internals after 5 moves. Kludge slowed from 22 to 12 on 5 then to 7 on 11 (Both of us missed the 8 impulse delay). On 19 he accelerated to try to get separation enough to gun me down with the PPD. I tractored and death-dragged his crewed shuttle. He mis-timed his turn in and I saw he would be compelled into range 1 on impulse 32. I launched my suicide shuttles on 30 and softened up his facing #2 shield with some phasers at range 2. His return fire killed one shuttle, damaged the other and took off half my #1 shield. Imp 32 he was compelled forward while I turned my fresh #6 to his damaged #2. I had hoped he would fight my tractor with his batteries, but he just lets it lock on. I wanted to rotate him into the SS, but as my friend Dave Conroy used to say "Just Shoot him." 3 energy to maintain the link was insufficient, but he resigned at the prospect of an overloaded Lyran at range 1 from a half strength shield.

By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 11:31 am: Edit

Posted this in Rat 29 but I guess this the better place for it, so here it is agan

Game 2.11 Report
Moose (Hydran) defeats Duke (Lyran)
Turn 1:
I plot 2 standard HBs, charge 2 standard fusions on the right side and plot speed 16 all turn with 8 reinforcement on my #2 shield and 2 suicide shuttles. My plan is to corner dodge if he comes straight out or move towards the middle if he corner dodges but either way to take his turn 1 standard disruptor shot on my reinforced #2 and then run him down turn 2.
Chris comes out with a 31/20 plot and 4 standard disruptors. When I see his speed I turn to my corner immediately and he turns that direction also. The turn proceeds that way with me eventually turning back in and getting my #2 to bear around impulse 22 when he takes his range 15 disruptor shot at me, hitting with 3 and getting 1 box of shield damage. After firing Chris turns off and we end the turn at about range 13 with me facing C and Chris facing B.

Turn 2:
I plot 16 for the first 10 impulses then 27 for the rest of the turn, hold my 2 fusions and suicde shuttles and roll the hbs. I also put 2 into tractors, figuring if I can get range 1 after taking his overloads that will be enough with my batteries to hold him for my fighters and suicides. Chris starts the turn at speed 14.
We move towards each other, with Chris raising 1 esg at range 0 (for HB protection), and on imp 10 or so we are at range 5 perfectly oblique. Chris has just turned and I went straight to force him to fire at range 5 or let me get in behind him. My speed change kicks in and Chris fires everythng at me (except the p-3s). He uses the uim and hits with all 4 disruptors (he rolled 2 5s, so it is a good thing for him he used the uim). All told I take 12 internals, losing 1 hb (which I fired this imp taking 13 off his esg), 1 uncharged fusion and 3 p-1s. This was not part of my plan. Next impulse I turned in and launched my fighters and Chris sped up to 27. We ended up at range 2 and he was able to get several rounds of mizia fire in my down shield with his p-3s and offside p-1s while I tried unsuccessfully to tractor him at range 2. I also fired 2 p-1s, a gat, 2 fusions and the other HB from my ship at him for 11 internals in 2 volleys, getting only 1 phaser 3 but both esgs. We moved away from each other and my fighters were able to get a range 3 shot on his down shield doing another 14 internals then they moved to follow my ship as Chris moved away. We ended the turn at about range 15 with Chris towards the top of map facing C and me near the middle facing C also. My fighters were about 3-4 hexes behind me. Reviewing Chris's power I realized I had seen all of his power this turn (22 move, 4 housekeeping, 16 disruptor and 3 tractor) so I did not have to worry about any suicide shuttles.

Turn 3:
I thought that this turn Chris would spend recharging his phaser capacitors an repairing a few boxes on his down shield to stop my HB on turn 4 so I plotted accordingly. I plotted speed 14 all turn with 2 in tractor to land my fighters if neccessary (they still had fusion charges since they fired at range 3). I armed my remaining LF/L fusion and recharged my gats and HB. I also started repairing 2 phasers as p-3s to protect the gats next turn. I continued to hold the suicide shuttles.
Chris started off at speed 9 and immediately turned to D. I kept the fighters moving towards my ship and moved the ship to get closer to the fighters. I didn't want him to get a free shot at my fighters. Chris soon sped up to 19 and closed. I turned to A and my fighters HET behind me to follow. We closed and got to range 2 oblique with my fighters at range 4. Neither of us fired. The next impulse I did not move but Chris and the fighters did and they got to range 2 of each other. The fighters did a speed change to 14 to threaten ange 1 since Chris did not move next imp and Chris and the fghters fired at each other. My fighters did 46 damage while they died to 3 p-1s apiece. These internals killed 3 p-1s. Next impulse I turned and reached range 1 with my #6 facing his #3. I locked him in a tractor which he did not fight, then we both launched seeking shuttles at each other. I knew his were not real so I ignored them. My shuttles did 36 damage which I followed up with an OL fusion and my LS gat, leaving him with 1 disruptor and 4 p-1s and 12 power. At this point Chris conceded.
He told me after that he did not have any disruptors armed this turn. If he had and he had fired at me at range 2 I think he would have won this game as I don't think even my fighters firing at range 1 on a clean shield do enough to make up for what he would have done there. I would have lost the HB and the gats almost certainly and that would have been that. Could be wrong though, still new to this match-up.

It was a good game, and very ugly as games between these 2 ships tend to be.

By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 05:25 pm: Edit

Omega Tourney, Laszlo (KZI) over Eol (Trobrin)

We both agreed to have the IBs be LS/RS arcs for historical accuracy and balance. FA+L/R gives too much crunch. LS/RS gives the ship more options, while making it difficult to get the full crunch on the first battle pass.

Turn 1: I go 16 with a late change to 27. (I meant to plot 16/26, but clicked the wrong column.) I OL 3 disruptors. He went 24 all turn. I launched the SP, slipped out a little bit, and rode the drone wave. On 1.20, at r12, he launched a IT-H and IT-L. The client was not working correctly, it did not allow him to add the torps in IA, and when he added them manually, it did not call for their movement.

I decided to run through the torps, phasering them down and taking them on a side shield. However, the range 1 detonation thing messed me up. They got to range 3, and I realized too late they would hit my #1 without any phasering. So, I ate 32 on my #1 (batteries kept the shield at 3 boxes). He followed up the torp with an IB, 4xp1 and 4xp3 at range 11. The bolt hit (and the phasers don't miss) for 18 damage, netting a disruptor, p3, and 3 power. He turned off, and I was forced to turn off to avoid the follow-up with the offside p1s and other IB. I launched 4 drones. He launched the other IT-L on 1.32.

Turn 2, I figured he would probably weasel the drones, as he had fired phasers at me and did not have much room to run around the drones. He did, plotting 16/8/4/14. I went 14/20 and armed standards. On 2.15, he launched the WW, ensuring he would take no collateral. (I realized later that he was not eligible to launch that impulse, as he was going 8 and had just announced his drop to 4. However, had he known the speed change rules better, he could have easily plotted his speed changes an impulse earlier, and gotten the same result.) Meanwhile, I phasered down his IT-L.

I followed the drones in and he kept AFC down as the string of drones impacted on the WW. He raised AFC, and I launched 4 fast drones, which would reach him before the end of the turn. He On 2.31, I was at range 3 on his #4, which sounded better than range 2 on his #3, so I fired, scoring 26, leaving 1 box after reinforcement. He hit my #2 with an IB for 18, and used his phasers to shoot down my drones.

Turn 3, he went 12 all turn. I went 14/9/4/0, but used batteries to maintain speed 4. I was circling in behind him, with the wall in front of me, him on my right side. I launched another 4 fast drones, which would reach him before his phasers all cycled. I fired p3s into his #4 at range 2, downing it and getting some armor. He fired an IB and a couple p1s, knocking my #3 down and getting a p3 and a hull. The next several impulses, we were on the hex spine, but movement precedence put him on my #2 and me on his #4. He used tractors and only two available phasers to deal with the drones. (He later finished off the tractored drones after his phasers had cycled.)

I had to use 2 p1s to kill a SS from him at range 2, but managed to pump 2 OLs, 1 p1 and 2 p3 into his #4, scoring 29 internals - an IB, 2 p3s, 1 p1, 1 hit on his IT-H, 3 power, 4 btty. Later, I was able to mizia him with my 2 standard disruptors, getting 6 power and 2 p1s. He managed to maneuver onto my down #3, and his last two p1s did 7 internals, p3, warp, battery, and 4 hull. We ended the turn at range 7.

Turn 4, I plotted speed 4, looking to boost that with reserve warp after I had weaseled off his big torp. He went 8 with a late drop to 4. On 4.1, he launched an IT-L. I phasered it down to 3 points, letting it hit my reinforcement on 4.7. On 4.8, he launched the IT-H, which I weaseled. I then accelerated to 14 on 2.21. He fed me a couple p1s on my #1, killing the box I had repaired along with a p3 and a warp. I started string-launching drones. He launched the weasel, so I shot it down in his hex to make him eat collateral. (He only ate collateral from one drone, though.) On 4.32, his weasel was void, and I had him centerlined at range 2, doing 12 internals through his #3, hitting an IT-L, p1, p3, and 7 power. His phasers went to shooting down drones.

Turn 5, we both went 0. On 5.1, I did a few H&R, getting an APR. He put an IB through my down #1, getting 16 in - a disruptor, 2 p3s, a p1 and a bunch of power - but it wasn't enough. I started string launching drones. He shot down 1, but the next hit, and I followed up with direct fire, scoring 12 in through the damaged shield. He conceded at that point, as he was going to take more in before he could tac again. He was down to an IT-H (with one box), IT-L, 2p1, 2p3, and 10 power. I had 3 disruptors, 3 p1s, 3 p3s, 28 power, and 4 drone racks - although only two had drones left in them.


The Kzinti is probably one of the toughest matches for the Trobrin, but it's not hopeless by any means. The fact that a PR3 does 3.5 damage at range 1 is annoying, but it's balanced by the fact that a PR1 can AK a type-4 at range 1. One PR1 or two PR3s will AK any drone or shuttle in the tourney at range 1.

The guaranteed damage of radiation phasers means you can really tailor your shots - and a long-range snipe is not a big gamble.

The ITs have short range, do not have pseudoes or an enveloping option. In that respect, a IT-H is nowhere near as good as a plasma-G. OTOH, the range-1 detonation really messes with standard anti-plasma maneuver. You can't juke an IT. If you're not careful, you might not even get a good p3 shot on it to phaser it down a bit.

The IBs are just monstrous - like overloaded photons with UIM, but without the range-8 limit.

Against other opponents, this Trobrin may be a bit on the strong side. My maneuver error turn 1 made this battle closer than it would have been; OTOH, if Peter had tried to run out the drones turn 2 instead of weaseling, he probably could have stayed out of trouble long enough to rearm his torps. I would suggest keeping the ship as is for now (except make the IBs LS/RS as we did). If it proves a little strong, I would reduce the shielding a little. The weapon suite feels about right, but historically, the Trobrins had weaker shields, and made up for it with armor.

By David Schultz (Ikvavenger) on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 12:10 am: Edit

This section hasn't had any action for about a year and a half so I thought I'd make a post. I've been enjoying SFBOL for a few weeks now and sent in my payment today for a paid account. Everyone has been great over there and I really appreciate it! Tugger took me under his wing and really helped get me acclimated to the OL system and that made all the difference.

He and I have played four times so far and before tonight he owed the Klingon Empire three D7's But it was very good experience and he was patient to point out many tips and helped me through the mistakes I made. Thank you buddy.

Tonight was my first ever win on SFBOL, so here is a quick synopsis:

T1 Klingon D7TCC (me) vs. ISC TCC (Robert)

I started out with a 15/26 plot and loaded my SP with 4x1F's and 2x1M's. I wanted to try this out to see how it worked and I'm glad that I did. Robert was around a 26 start speed with a drop later in the turn. I armed 2xstandard and 2x OL on the disruptors. I figured if I didn't get a range 8 shot I could at least go for a standard hit to soften a shield. I launched the SP pretty early, around I2 or so to get the fast drones out ahead of me. I slipped a bit here and there to keep him on my reinforced #6. When we got around R14 or so he fired the PPD hitting 3 out of 4 pulses on the 1/2/3. I returned with the 2xstandard for 6 on the #1.

As the turn progressed he launched an enveloping type G (which I didn't note because my little boy stepped onto the bridge to ask me who my favorite Jedi knight was lol). I remembered in one of the earlier CL's that the Gold hat winner was flying a Kzinti TCC against a Gorn and chose to eat a couple of plasmas to get to knife fighting range which worked for him. So I figured i'd use this type of strategy and see how it worked for me. I ate the EPT for 4x7 and 2x6 so the #6 with reinforcement was still spotless. He launched a type F and a type G a couple of impulses apart for me to wade through as he turned away. I ate the F which dropped my #2 for no damage and the G was a PPT thankfully! I managed to get into OL range on I32 and hit with both on the #4.

T2

We both put the peddle to the metal for sp31. We both dropped down later in the turn, I had a drop to 26 and then 19 later on in the latter part of the turn. He dropped 26/20 later on if I remember right. He launched another type F which I waded through for a few internals but nothing but a couple of power and a PH-3. He killed the sp 32 drones. He miz'd me with a few PH-1 but the dice were with me, mostly hull/lab and one more ph-2. I managed to get on his #4 and hit 3 out of 4 OL which chopped the shield down pretty well. A few impulses later I hit with the 3xPH-1 FX which killed the #4 along with a ph-3 and a type F launcher!. I managed to hang onto the #4 and hit it again in a couple of impulses for another ph-3 hit, some power and the PPD! Robert was kind (probably feeling bad for killing so many of my other D7's LOL).

Robert only had half the internals that I did, but the dice were just not with him as I'd lost only a PH-3 and a PH-2 while he'd lost 2xPh-3 and two heavies. He called it a night at this point so who knows what might have transpired later on. But I 'think' I'd have been in good shape; he'd already burned the HET and no heavy would have been ready on T3. I had a ph-2 that would have soon been in arc on the downed #4 and the other side Ph-1 when I turned towards him a bit later. I'm 'pretty' sure I could have stayed on or close to the down #4 with more than enough power to OL at least some of the disruptors and the ph-1 FX for down shield sniping on T3, and I had 5x sp20 drones about 4-5 hexes away.

Again who knows what might have happened but I graciously accepted the win (before he could change his mind and/or I made a mistake and he blowed my ship up ) In all seriousness though, Robert was very encouraging and I feel has/is making me a better SFB player.

Thank you Robert.

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 08:40 am: Edit

Welcome to the fold David...and nice job Robert bringing him along

Yeah I think we've fallen into the habit of writing up battles in the appropriate tourney section instead of here.

By Robert Grey (Tugger) on Monday, March 29, 2010 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Grin, I agree that you had a definite edge in this game, and I am happy to see you picking up the interface very quickly.

Looking forward to more games with you, and plan to rope you into Netkill for this next quarter!

Tugger
aka Robert Grey

By David Schultz (Ikvavenger) on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 09:37 am: Edit

Racer X in the Neo Tholian vs. IKV Avenger in the Klingon = Draw

This was a really well played game on both sides. I wanted to jot it down while it was fresh in my mind. Racer needed practice with the Neo and I just need practice. This game was JFF.

T1 - I started out with a 15/26 split, Racer had a 16/26 split. I launch the SP early (I4). I figure he'll snag the drones with web but better he concentrate on the drones than me, plus there is no guarantee that I'll be able to get it out later. I'm heading direction A and he's generally direction D. He does an excellent job of putting up a wall of web to catch the drones. No way to avoid it. I'm off to the left side of the web starting to come around the corner and he's fairly to the opposite side of the web which is running East-West on the map. We both take long distance disruptor shots towards the end of the turn but the shield reinforcement we both allocated stopped it clean.

T2 - This was a good set up turn. I do a 26/15 plot as I wanted some late turn ability. Racer was 31/21? I'm just ready to turn the left corner of the web to gain the backside. Racer goes through the right side and bye-bye drones. I hesitate a little by side-slipping to see where he's going after he gains the other side of the web...he turns off away from me heading generally B. I figured here is my chance to pounce on his tail. His disruptors aren't in arc to hit me and he spend most of his phaser power destroying drones. I HET at the edge of the web to D and then come back around the front to pursue. I sent two IVF out in front of me. Towards the end of the turn it doesn't look like I'm going to get closer than R9 so I take the disruptor shot on his #5 hitting I think 3 out of 4 to soften it up. As he was getting close to the edge it looked like he would have to turn up so I figured there was a good chance the #5 would be exposed again on T3. It was. At the end of T2 he sent out a web wall running East-West in which he could duck behind to shield him from my pursuit.

T3 - I figured I'd have only a few impulses available to me in which to fire on his #5 before the wall obscured him. I plotted a 31/15 in order to close a bit before that happened. He had a 26/27/28 plot. It worked. I hit R8 just before he reached the wall and hit 3 out of 4 UIM OL's and did fairly well with 5xPH-1. Netted about 13 internals including a disruptor and a couple of phaser-3's. I then turned off to C and then D. He went behind and then through the web to pursue me. I chuck a couple of IM drones at him just to give him something to shoot at. We end up in the South East corner. After some pretty good turns on both of our parts he finally gets a good shot on my #5. He downs the #5 and I think it was about 11 in for a disruptor and a ph-2/ph-3. I'm able to turn back up to A to give him a fresh shield and then hose his #6 with the remainder of my rear phaser hose cutting it down to 50%. That ended the turn and the game as it was getting late. We decided to call it a draw.

After action chat: He planned on hammering me on T4/I1 with OL's and phaser fire through the fresh #4 which should have giving him great internals on me. He had no choice but to move forward still giving my his #6. I planned to send my last IF drones which he said he'd have to let hit in order to be able to hit me hard. I was in perfect position with my #4 next to his 50% #6 so all of my phasers would have hit at R1. So the damage to both would have been fairly close.

Great game! Thanx Racer

By Robert F Estrada (Daredevil) on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Good account Avenger

Felt like I was losing up until the end... hehe


Racer

By David Schultz (Ikvavenger) on Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 01:47 pm: Edit

UAK (Lyran TCC) vs. IKV Avenger (Romulan TKR) in NK

Action: A 10 turn knock-down-drag-out-nail-biting-white-knuckled-slug-fest!

Result: Draw

First off, I'd like to thank UAK for the game, best I've ever had to date. He played this game as if it were for the Gold Hat. It lasted maybe 7+ hours or so I figured over a couple of nights. Brought up all kinds of rules searches such as the extended firing arcs on D7/KR ships, probes as weapons, crippled ships, general reinforcement use when shield boxes are all gone etc. I'm not going to be able to do any justice in recounting the battle, I'll try to hit the highlights and if I'm off on anything maybe UAK or one of the guys watching can chime in and correct it.

As a background, this is my first time in the TKR. UAK and Racer X felt this would be a good ship for me based upon my play style. They suggested it last week in a different tourny game so I gave it a go in this battle. I very much like this ship and it was a good suggestion.

T1 - I'm facing A and UAk is facing D. I lobbed an S EPT at him which he ran through at full strength (to my surprise and delight). It knocked all shields down to 2/3 except the #2 which he bricked with 10. Towards the end of the turn he activates both ESG's at full strength, though we're around 10-12 hexes apart. I run, he chases.

T2 - I kept the speed up to where he couldn't close with the ESG's. He finally did get a R8 shot on my #4, taking it down and doing a few internals including two of my side ph-3's. And I have to hand it to his Disruptor gunner, throughout the game he shot probably around 15 Disruptors at me and hit every one of them (which thoroughly sucked for me). I fired 5xph-1's directly behind me (love those firing arcs!), taking his #2 down to 2/3 the same as his other shields. I fired a second S EPT which made him finally turn off and run it out. I zipped along the bottom of the board to gain distance while I recharged.

T3 - We were on opposite ends of the board so we spent the turn closing.

T4 - We start on the west side of the board around the middle. I fire a PPT and turn off. He gambles and runs headlong into it (nerves of steel). I HET and fire the left pl-F. He HET's and the F takes down his back shield. He alphas my #1 taking it down and does a few internals along with both ESG's (not full strength but pretty close). He's rolling great! I fire a phaser barrage and take down his #2 completely and do a couple of internals. We close and I fire the S EPT at R2 and the right pl-F on the next imp at R1. After digging into the rules a bit I realized he didn't have time to ED and pop a WW at that point. The EPT hits and damage floods in through his downed #2 & #4 then the pl-F hits (all at full strength) on #3 taking it out completely and doing internals. I think I did 36 total as well as knocking the other shields down to 1/3 strength. We both travel off to the East with me slightly behind him.

T5 - I've got downed #1 & #4, he's down on #2, #3 and #4 and the others are around 10 or less boxes. He launches two admins for fire support I'm assuming. Trying to keep him off my #1 I turn into him just putting him on my #6. Tried a tractor on him but he successfully fought it. I launch an S, I think regular. As he started at 0 this turn he's able to WW the plasma, the collateral takes out his two admins and almost downs his #6. I take some ph-1 shots and then manage to get my right side ph-1 into the rear left arc (love those D7/KR firing arcs!). Now he has #5 & #6 down. He fires an alpha at me without FC and rolls great despite the penalty. If I remember right he takes out my #5 shield and does some internals. So by now we're both hurting pretty hard.

T6 - I've been downloading an S as an F as he had one shuttle left (figured he'd WW it so didn't want to waste the power). He follows and we end up in the middle of the southern portion of the board. I launch and hit him with the F, he (of course) hits with the two or three disruptors he had active (we were both repairing disruptors and phasers all game to the limit). I should have gone ahead and made it a full S, the extra 10 internals might have sealed the deal that turn. Somehow with phaser fire I killed his #1. He does some BP H&R action on me that yielded either a phaser or APR, don't remember now.

T7 -T10 I launch my final shuttle, he also has his final shuttle on the board. Too make a long story short (too late) we end up at R1 with his non-existent #1 to my #2 (and later with a TAC my #3). With both at speed 0 it's just a slug fest knife fight. I didn't load my last remaining plasma since I didn't figure it would last the three turns to fire it (it didn't). He finally killed it (I think) with a H&R. I returned the favor with max phaser damage. I was able to brunt most of the damage from his two alphas with bricks of 15 and 22. But he still got in enough to defang me. However, with my admin I FINALLY took out his last disruptor and phaser. He gets me with an armed PROBE!!! His Marines did a good job as well...till I finally killed them all LOL.

So we ended up with no weapons for either of us. I had 9 power, one or two control, a probe and one or two other boxes, UAK had three power, I think one control box, a probe and one or two other boxes. We each had one admin buzzing around and the only shields up were my untouched #6 (on the opposite side from him unfortunately).

We decided to call it a draw. And to be honest, this game didn't deserve either of us losing. It was an outstanding game from start to finish. I learned a LOT from it that I will be putting into my next games. Again, my thanks to UAK and everyone watching that chimed in with assistance when we were looking up several rules.

If I made any errors on the recount, please chime in with a correction. Great game and looking forward to the rematch.

By Robert F Estrada (Daredevil) on Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Good report Dave!~

late in the game

Brook was down to 3 power 2 or 3 transporters, and the dreaded probe!

I commented
" What more does he need?" hehe


Brook fought the last 3 or 4 turns nearly shieldless

Dave flew extremely well too


Racer

By David Schultz (Ikvavenger) on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 08:57 pm: Edit

Thanks Robert,

And thank you (and Brook) for suggesting the TKR as a ship that would fit my style of play. Good suggestion. I very much enjoyed this ship and look forward to flying it again. I particularly like the 'Klingon' firing arcs since the TD7C is also at the top of my favorite ships list. And the TM is awesome of course.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 11:14 am: Edit

I have a battle to report and a question to ask.

Recently I was flying the Kzin vs the Fed.

Turn 1 saw my speed plot at 20/31, the fed went 16. On turn 1 i deployed the Scatterpack and 4 fast drones, the fed moved immediatly towards 0101. Turning to E on his first move. He ended the turn in the corner. Drones were approaching but were probably 12 hexes away.

Turn 2 the Fed plotted speed 0 with several TAC's, phasered the drones he could then popped a WW. The WW got the last of the drones, I fired Disruptors outside OL range but he was putting over 20 power into specific reinforcement. Even at close range i would only be doing shield damage. With my racks slowly emptying, I started to realize this was his one and only plan. Sit in the corner and spin.

Turn 3 the fed also plotted Speed 0, with no drones inbound, I could see i needed to build up a wave, and follow it in. I started to ask my opponent if he had hear of non-agression before. Because his strategy sure seemed non agressive to me. I tried to put it nicely at first but he was loving the Fed sit and spin.

I could see that he would destroy all the drones in a few more turns, once empty he would come out and use his huge advantage to destroy me.

So during EA of turn 4 I asked are you going to stay in the corner, he said no, I figured he probably wouldn't even do speed 10. So i posted what SVC wrote about non agression into chat. My opponent flipped out left the game, and now i see he has reported it as a loss for himself.

I just wanted him to see my point that there have been problems with non agression and it can get you disqualified. The game didn't play to its natural conclusion at all, he should never have reported that I won. I had done only a bit of shield damage to him.

My question is this do you all think that making a bee line to the corner and stopping is a legitimate tactic vs the Kzin or other drone ship. The goal I think was have me empty my drone racks, then play argessivly.

I know stopping and popping a WW is legal, cloaking is legal, But for how long can you stay there once stopped, it's not really clear where to draw the line on stopping and TAC'ing. I thought that he overdid it.

In net kill games I have never had any dispute with a player like this and don't quite know how you are supposed to resolve it.

I know non agression is a touchy subject with some players. They don't agree with it or don't care what the powers that be in SFB have said on it. It was just like fighting a base, except bases usually don't have 4 shield facings blocked by a tournament barrier.

I asked around and there are some tactics i could have tried against the Fed, most involved tractoring him, and eating his overloads.

So am i just a Kzin whiner or was the fed playing dirty non agressive play. My feelings are that I should just not play anyone who does this sort of thing, its not like its ever been a problem in the past.

I wish the tournament barrier would do auto internals after so many impulses sitting next to it. One volley per hexside of wall, say 4 internals per volley. Then see how wonderfull the fed likes the corner. I think say 48 impulses would be about long enough, I know it will never happen.

All I can say is poor Orions it must be the death of them. They would not stand a chance against this sort of cheesy tactic. They would no doubt double themselvs half to death then the Fed base would decide its wants to play at being a ship again.

If there is a better more clear explanation of non agression please someone point me to it. Having faced it I wouldn't want to use it on someone, it makes for one hell of a boring game.

I would have given anything for a Web Caster, that could have changed things a bit. But still a problem, the Fed has TM D for a reason. Sit and spin takes any TM advantage away, and lets the non agressive player pump alot into reinforcement or tractor.

Should I have said nothing to the guy, Im sure he doesn't have a ton of tournamant experience. Probably had no idea that he was doing anything wrong.

Another example this one i did. I was in the Archaeo Tholian, really hurt ship at that point. I was skimming the wall running like a madman, my opponent behind. I cast the WC at the wall in a half circle shape. and ran into the wall to get a stop hoping the enemy would pass on by. Well it didn't happen that way, but thats non agressive also in a way.

Are there more specific's on non agression anywhere, tournament module, tournement tactics module etc. And what do you do if there is no judge or triumvirate to consult.

Thanks to any who take the time to answer my little non agression questions. I don't want be the guy always crying non agression. But i really would like others opinions on the Kzin Fed situation. I feel that the combination of the turn 1 bee line to the corner before any drones were launched, and sitting there for two more turns was clearly using non agression to get an advantage. There are many other ways to deal with drones, im not even saying that stopping in a corner is non agression, its the staying there for multiple turns that bothers me.

By Kerry E Mullan (Nomad17) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Non-agression is a tricky subject. My understanding is that it takes 4 complete non-agression turns to lose. Obviously you are correct in that your opponent was non-aggressive.

As the KZI you can obviously just try and do shield boundary tricks from R9-15 without launching drones. Or a R8 OL shot with or without drones-you showing a rein shield as well, of course yours would only be around 9 + batts. If he fires at R8 the damage to you should not Kill you allowing for an overrun the following turn.

The KZI can accomplish this easily without launching drones, but getting through that much rein still requires a lotta luck hitting with your OLs.

Of course you could just do the string launch of 4 near the end of the turn and follow em in the next turn with like 2-3 OL charged and spd changes so you hit R4 when his first weasel to clear drones comes and to reach R1 before the 4 imp delay is over. This could give you rein or trac for the anchor after the first weasel allowing the other 4 rack drones to be used effectively.

I mean against the fed the KZI has so many options to win it's not funny. The FED has hit with 3+ photons and hope to survive for a couple turns.

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 01:44 pm: Edit

What Kerry said. Plus, you can point out his non aggression and not be a whiner. If he is a new player, maybe it would be better to complete the game and kindly warn him that his tactics are frowned upon. However, in this particular matchup, you need to expect a weasel and taccing at some point from the Fed. So think about how you can overcome that (not too hard as Kerry pointed out) and make him pay next time.

By Jonathan Biggar (Jonb) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 01:57 pm: Edit

The Fed was clearly acting in a non-aggressive way, IMO. Reminding him of the non-aggression rules after two turns of sit-and-spin is appropriate and necessary.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Actually there is no rule. All there is is a guideline (for judges IIRC) about non-aggression. So the Fed did nothing wrong, technically speaking.
As for your question about the tactic I think it is a clever and nasty one, but perhaps not the best one since it leaves initiative to you. A better one would be to do a 4/14 split to weasel off the scatter pack.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 06:12 pm: Edit

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Quote:

Or a R8 OL shot with or without drones-you showing a rein shield as well, of course yours would only be around 9 + batts.

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By ROBERT l cALLAWAY (Callaway) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Starfleet commander extreme uni 2 from adm magura

anybody know this game?

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Rob, I think you're in the wrong place. Ask down in the GC topic and ask Roy about it. I think it may be a FB game.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Thanks everyone.

So ill be better prepared if someone tries it in the future with all your suggestions. I think if he had sped up to ten on the turn we never played he probably would have been legal by the guidlines I read. I definatly shoul have considered his experience in my approach to the subject but i know how frustrating it is to have your opponent criticize your tactics.

Looking back on it i should have had more red in general on my SSD, his play was totally passive. I failed to press the issue. Photon paranoia from one too many 4 hit range 8 OL shots. I know its very rare, maybe i need PTSD treatment from photon shell shock.

I suppose its the nature of the beast with a cage fight situation like the SFB tou8rnament. I did have alot of options i didn't use, probably better to try them than complain. I thought that i was sharing what i know to be the guidelines for non agression. I certainly never intended for him to take it as me saying i win your illegal. Unfortunatly he reported it, and there are clearly hard feelings about it still on his part. It didn't meet the criteria of coming to a natural conclusion our ships had tons of fight in them. After the fiasco of The_Geek reporting error I think ill skip trying to have it fixed. Easier to report a win for him vs me, but i guess that compounds his error in reporting a match before its completed. So thats not an option. That just screws up the statistics more.

Thats another good question when do you call it. I don't always wait till i blow up to concede the game, but usually only the loss of the kitchen sink will send me packing. If you can clearly see and the opponent too that the game is his in the next turn or so regardless of what you do, i think its time to throw in the towel. It makes no sense making the ohter player go through the motions of blowing up a hulk. Hopefully thats legal or im in really big trouble.

I got to say the guy was sucesfull at getting to me. I think i was too tired to try the things any good Kzin would. Thats one thing i like about SFB, as in real battle fatigue can get you killed. When you get that frustrated you should probably save and continue after rest. Better than losing a friend over stupid non agression, thats rediculous.

I cant wait to suffer at the hands of Carl's version of this Fed show, thankfully his beatings are blissflully quick. He even without knowing it was within the rules, clearly I could stand more patience. It must be the klingon in me.

Thanks again if he talks to me agian ill let him know what what you all thought, especially Carl, thats sound advicie for somebody that plays fed exclusivly. Definatly something to add to your bag of tricks.

Or as Harcore puts it your personal tactics manual. Sit and Spin officially added Dec,18th, 2010. Legal with some limitations, and definatly not unbeatable. Have to learn to accept whatever avg damage is on that day and use superior rearm rates when someone completly gives up innitiative with Sit and Spin.

Now a rested amature Kzin with beer to provide devine inspiration I think i have a plan to take out the sit and spin fed. Less than sure about carl's version that sounds pretty fun although it would take some of the best speed plotting ive ever done to pull it off myself. And you cant even hint that its non agressive, Makes me wonder how orions do it in real tournaments. Now there is a case where almost everyone wants to stall the game vs the Orion. Who wouldn't be tempted when there doubling, one reason i can really respect somebody who fly's a strong Orion.

By Kerry E Mullan (Nomad17) on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 01:39 am: Edit

Xander

"Why take the shot, though? One of the perks of the disruptor races is that you don't need to power your heavy weapons if you don't want them. No harm done against later turns firing. "

This is totally true. The point I was trying to make though is if he is going spd 0 and tacing on Turn N. Turn N+1 the KZI can go 4 OLs with the prospect of firing them at R8 with manuevering hopefully getting on an unreinforced shield. At R8 the KZI should be somewhere in the 26 dam range. He can then turn off to get outa R8 and start setting up for the next turn.

The FED can either continue to starcastle losing shields or come out, or option 3 is firing at R8 on the KZI.

Unless at R8 he hits with all 4 or gets incredibly lucky on ints the R8 shot is a clear loser for the fed as you have him cornered and next turn you will definitely be at R1 to him. If he holds fire your repeated fire at R8 should be denting shields.

This is especially true as you can time it on a hex spline shield boundary tricks can let you pick the shield as long as you move 3 hexes in 8 imps(an the correct 8 imps obviously ie 8-15, 16-23, 24+). This will bring you into R6-8 but that isn't a bad thing either. With 2 or so rack drones out(to help losing one from possible damage) until you fire he has to hold fire.

This as well threatens him for the following turn as you are R6-8 to him. Eventually the FED will either fire or start getting internals to itself and then the mugging commences.Again this is just std starcastle breaking tactics.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 02:36 am: Edit

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Quote:

Unless at R8 he hits with all 4 or gets incredibly lucky on ints the R8 shot is a clear loser for the fed as you have him cornered and next turn you will definitely be at R1 to him. If he holds fire your repeated fire at R8 should be denting shields.

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By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 05:59 am: Edit

Xander, I would agree with that one can beat the starcastle, but it do cause different problems for different ships. The guidline says a player should not be punished for not attacking a non-aggressive opponent. This however is less easy in the ORion were you just have doubled your engines. Moving away will only help your opponent burn your engines!

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 05:59 am: Edit

Josh, the 4/14 is done over a turn break, and mostly for non-Orions. An Orion can't afford to lose the speed.

You are right about "When you get that frustrated you should probably save and continue after rest. Better than losing a friend over stupid non agression, thats rediculous. "
I don't think I will go to the judges over non-agrression ever; Having been on the 'recieving end' I know that well and I can say it isn't worth the trouble. It cause ill feelings for both sides that can last for years.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Yeah, very well put Carl.

I made it into overload range during his weasel Fire Control down time, and found about as much reinforcement as i did damage.

I used the scatter pack way too early, before i could see what he planned, and didn't charge extra SS. It wasn't just the photons that kept me away, Twice the ph 1's of my ship adds considerable damage inside r5. At that range you should be able to count on at least one miss with the photons, but phasers 1's are very consistent damage producers at that range. I have always thought that the Fed really suffers only having two ph 3 as padding for the 8 ph 1's.

Im always shocked when they never repair them, the fed can repair them twice over with CDR. But the A Tholian, one thing Ive noticed about it if it gets hit on the no 1 shield there are no ph 3 in arc and the oh so important phasers are the ones you lose. So after losing too many ph 1's ive started making sure i take it on the 2 or 6 where the damage is somwhat lessened.

And yes I should have treated the Kzinti's disruptors more like the A Thol's disr. A purely optional place to put power. On turn 1 the energy is probably better used elsewhere.

I run at speed 31 regularly, im usually trying to bring weapons into arc, but Ive been tractored so many times I sometimes think that if you have to take two turns to recharge phasers so you don't get anchored. The A Thol is the worst, with its movement cost once tractored it will never get away(unless there are some miraculous anti tractor shots).

Looking back on it seeing 25 reinforcemt used should have told me he's not prepared for a tractor. Holding the OL photons costs 8, and he was using his phasers, another 8 or 9 pts per turn. That would probably account for most of his power on the turn.

Its clear now that the energy I wasted on a completly bricked OL shot would have been more than enough to get an anchor on him. I didn't think of it because i had expected a center of the map dance. But surely 16 power plus the batteries would be more than enough. Although once he's tractored I think the next move would have him hit the wall, thus breaking that tractor lock. I suppose you could come in on either barrier and turn after tractoring, and pull the flathead out away from the barrier.

It seems like this starcastle gimmick works very well for the flatheads, like they were designed for it. Disrupror races need to be able to use there turn mode to find the same chink in the shields again and again. Other races have ways of damaging non facing shields. I think the KE would have been fun to have vs that tactic, Impossible to brick away an EPT R torp and two F's on the facing shields, Even a couple hellbores would have helped, I thought even if i do take down a shield he will have an earned TAC waiting and will cover up the wound.

Again thanks everyone, I just need more experience this shouldn't have surprised me the big surprise is probably that ive never faced the starcastle before.

Josh-GFB