Now, dogfighting in SFB is an optional rule. We have all tried it. Once. And if the scenario is just 6-12 fighters per player, the J1 rules are awesome. They work.

However, if there is a major fleet battle going on, they just get in the way. They add unneeded complexity to an already-complex game.

So, thus, here are my Super Simple Dogfight Rules. These are designed so that you can still have some dogfights while the big ships are slugging it out, and not sacrifice precious time.

Enjoy.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 01:35 am: Edit

The gist of it is this:

Dogfighting is deadly.

So, instead of 'Dogfight Resoulution Phases', if a fighter/shuttle gets into a dogfight (using the normal criteria), the dogfight is resolved at the end of the turn in the record keeping phase.

To resolve the dogfight, each side rolls 1D6 plus the fighter/shuttles Dogfight Rating. High roll wins, loser dies. In the event of a tie, BOTH sides die. Such is life.

In a 3-way dogfight, the side with 2 fighter/shuttles rolls 2 dice and picks the highest.

That's it. Oh, you can modify it to suit your fancy, but that's the long and the short of it.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 12:19 pm: Edit

So a single Zoran can kill 2 F14s?

The Klink rolls a 6 while the Fed rolls a pair of ones!

Cool.

And that REALLY puts the earlier fighters on the map.

QUESTION 1, how about cripples?
QUESTION 2, have you considered just having the fighters roll 8 (whatever) impulses after getting into the dogfight? Else a early turn dogfight might take 31 impulses while a late turn dogfight may only last a single impulse...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Maybe make multiple die roles with the winner gaining a weapons shot. Keep rolling until one side is destroyed.

If one side tried to break out the other side gets a last roll for a shot (if breaker rolls higher then the shot is missed). If the breaking fighter survives that then it breaks out and the dogfight ends.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 05:12 pm: Edit

The idea is to keep it simple.

"QUESTION 1, how about cripples?"

Without consulting J1, IIRC cripples can't dogfight. If they can, then crippled fighters don't get to add their DFR (they're crippled).

"QUESTION 2, have you considered just having the fighters roll 8 (whatever) impulses after getting into the dogfight? Else a early turn dogfight might take 31 impulses while a late turn dogfight may only last a single impulse..."

I considered it, and rejected it. The idea is to get enemy fighters into a dogfight early in the turn just for that very reason. Also, its easier just to resolve ALL the dogfights at the end of the turn.

Remember, this is for when you have A) insanely large amounts of fighters running around and/or B) lots of ships on the map as well.

If its a small scenario, and you want to, just use the highly detailed standard dogfighting rules in J1.

And as to your example of a Z-1 vs 2 F-14's....well, just remember that the Fed player rolls 2d6, picks the highest and then ADDS FOUR (the F-14 DFR) to it. The Z-1 just rolls 1d6, and adds ZERO (its DFR, IIRC). So the odds of a Z-1 beating 2 F-14's are pretty slim....

Oh, and to clarify the 2-vs-1 dogfight....lets say it was an F-14 and an F-8 vs that Z-1...the Fed player uses the LOWER DFR (of the F-8), to represent the F-14 having to basically 'fly around' the inferior F-8 fighter....

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 06:04 pm: Edit

IIRC cripples can be challenged to a dogfight. Perhaps a cripple challenged is at -4 DFR?

Hmm, I will thinkest on this.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 11:08 pm: Edit

I think that's too simple and isn't balanced for the basic reason MCG points out in line one of his post.

The biggest move to simple already happens just by moving the action to the end of the turn.

I can buy that because time is tweaked a lot with warp and sublight maneuvering and forcing a dogfight could slow things down such that it takes both fighters out of the normal sequence of impulse and removing them from the overall action of the turn.

That automatically makes dogfight challenges VERY important to the overall tactics situation; it removes the fighters from the normal SoP and it neutralizes them vs ships.