bakija (Alunda) vs VulcanDropOut (Vari)

Just a fun game and posting here for informational purposes.

T1: I go 16 all turn, put 18 power into my capacitors (up to 30) and leave my ARFs empty (figuring I can use a battery if I need it later). The Vari moves a 15/30 split with standard armed Particle Beams. I turn into my corner and corner dodge as he comes across the map at me. Late in the turn, he fires a bunch of Particle Beams at me twice (impulse 21 and then 29) at long range, scuffing my #6 for about 5 total damage. I launch 4x whipcrack torps on impulse 24. He turns south, I turn north, and we end the turn at about R13, my torps closing on him.

T2: My capacitors start at 15 this turn, so I put in 10 power and plot speed 16/31/16 (24 moves). The Vari moves 15 with a bit of 24 the last quarter of the turn with overloaded Particle Beams and a Particle Probe. He turns off from the little plasma torps and turns back in when they evaporate. I come in behind him, he misses me with his rear PB at range 8, and right before I get to R4 off his flank shields, he HETs at me, putting us at R4, #6 to #6. I blast him with 5x 4 point Bio Bolts and 5x 1 point Bio Bolts. He shoots back with a probe, a PB, and a couple phasers. I hit with 4 of each and do 60 damage. He continues to scuff up my #6. He takes 30 internals, losing about 9 power and a handful of weapons. Next impulse we hit R3, so he shoots me with the rest of his guns and I use 4 battery power to get him with my ARF in arc. He hits pretty well and does 18 internals (killing a BB, a whip and a lot of hull), I get him with the ARF to keep him at range. I start moving away, pushing him off with the ARF, he gets an extra P3 in my down shield for 1 more in (one of my batteries). We separate, I launch 3 more whiptorps at him, and we end at about R10, my #3 facing his #5.

We save here. I suspect I'm in a much better position than him, as he is down 9 power to my 2 power loss, and I can fix a lot of stuff, but it still remains to be seen.

I've never played against a Vari before. It seems reasonably solid as a DF ship with the 6x Particle Beams and good phaser suite, but is power hungry and the only thing it has to manipulate its opponent's movement is that the particle phasers can do a lot of damage in close if you roll lucky. The particle beams are funny (in that they shoot a lot). The particle probe is interesting if it can be used to take shots on down shields.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 09:24 pm: Edit

Lord Goofy ( Rom Firehawk ) defeats BaldnForty ( Maesron ) in 2 turns.

This was a classic case of me screwing up by the numbers.

Turn 1... I plotted speed 26 the whole turn holding TG at the 4 energy level pinging his #1 for 5 points of damage. I drove mostly south with a few slips towards Goofy, while he drove north.

At range 15, I fired the RF+R TG and turned South East.

Scott turned North West and about range 11 or so, he launched the EPT. I fired the rest of my TG hitting with all 3 and pinging his #2 shield for 15.

I continued to run turning North East, while Scott turned back North to chase after me.

At the end of the turn, I launched my first tachyon missile.

Turn 2, I continued a speed plot of 26 while re-arming the TG.

Launched the second tachyon missile for a wave of two of them.

I let the EPT hit me when it was down to 10 points and accepted all the damage.

Scott continued to chase me, pulling the classic slip around the missiles maneuver, I HETd the missiles and he phasered one down and allowed the other to hit for 8 points of damage on his #3.

Scott was driving at speed 25/26 and eventually pinned me against the wall.

I slipped into the wall allowing him to get in front of me, where I fired 6 PW-1 and 3 PW-3 at him. At range 1 that did 33 damage and did 3 in.

He grabbed me in a tractor, curse me for not allocating any power to it and fed me an S and a F.

I took 50, on my #2.

On the following impulse he fed me 4 P1 and a P3, and since I had used all my batteries fighting his tractor, I couldn't TAC. So they were all internals.

On the following impulse he turned and fed me two P3...

On the following impulse, he released me from the tractor and fed me a suicide shuttle.

I took another 18 in and we called it a game at that point since, I had 1 TG, 2 PW1, and 2 PW3 left.

I wasn't able to turn at that point and he would have been able to feed me another F on the down shield in an impulse or two.

This was more a case of my using horrible tactics against a plasma ship than any comments on the Maesron.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 05:07 pm: Edit

So now that I have played the Alunda a lot, here is what I suspect:

It might be a bit too good. Granted, I haven't played it against any plasma type ships yet, so I'm holding specific judgement till I try it vs, like, some Probr or Trobrin or something, as I suspect it will have problems vs plasma (much like the Fed). But against the various DF Omega ships, it seems to be doing pretty well. That it can get to R4, reliably hit for 60 damage while moving fast, and still have a couple bio bolts and all the plasma whips leftover is pretty brutal. And then it can fix all that stuff too.

I was looking at the Omega 2 SSDs last night, and comparing the Alunda TC to the official Alunda CC, we get:

+2 plasma whips (12xBB and 4xPW vs 12xBB and 2xPW)
+2 power (30 warp, 4 imp, 4 apr vs 26 warp, 4 imp, 6 apr)
+1 shuttle, -2 trac, a couple extra insiginficant boxes swapped
-4 shields on #1

The actual CC costs 136 BPV. Increase the total warp to 30 from 26 and add 2 more power and you probably end up at about 150, if not more. The Alunda TC then also has the extra 2 plasma whips on top.

My initial thought is to either remove 2 of the plasma whips or take out the 2 rear bio bolts. I think the ship needs 10 bio bolts across the FA to have a reasonable and solid alpha strike, but it is arguable that the rear 2 RH bio bolts are excessive on top of that. Or, remove the extra 2 plasma whips (so it has the same firepower total as the regular CC), but then it is very vulnerable to stray plasma whip hits (and they are, like, the most expensive thing on the ship to fix) and the plasma whips are interesting, flexible weapons. I suspect that going back to the basic HS bio bolt armament (2xLF/RS, 2xRF/LS, 2xFA/R, 2xFA/L, 2xRH) will hurt the ship too much, as only having 8x bio bolts across the FA isn't enough damage to be able to fight reasonably. But tweaking out the 2xRH bio bolts might not be unreasonable.

I wouldn't suggest making any changes currently, but I wanted to throw this out there while I was thinking about it.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 09:52 pm: Edit

Peter,

Plasma whips are hit on Aux Con, a fairly hard thing to hit. And they are repaired for 6 points. The Alunda has 6 Heal, so they could repair it in one turn... although... we had discussed reducing the heal to 4.

I won't change anything for right now... but your right that the current Alunda is a bit strong.

Removing the two RH bio bolts would also reduce the starting bio bolt energy from 12 to 10.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Barry wrote:
>>Plasma whips are hit on Aux Con, a fairly hard thing to hit.>>

Sure. But they get hit all the time anyway, apparently.

>> And they are repaired for 6 points.>>

Yes. Which is the most expensive thing on the ship to fix (of things that are likely to get fixed).

>> The Alunda has 6 Heal, so they could repair it in one turn... although... we had discussed reducing the heal to 4.>>

I'd leave it with 6 healing capacity if guns are removed.

>>Removing the two RH bio bolts would also reduce the starting bio bolt energy from 12 to 10.>>

This is true. If you drop 18 into the capacitor on T1 with a corner dodge, you start T2 with 14 power. Add 10 more, you have 24 to work with on T2, which is completely reasonable. I mean, 12 is certainly better than 10 to start, but then 12 bio bolts are better than 10 as well :-)

By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 01:14 am: Edit

---

Quote:

The Alunda has 6 Heal, so they could repair it in one turn...

---

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 08:06 am: Edit

Andy wrote:
>>Probably not. See (G17.33).>>

Oh, yeah, heh. That shows how often I use ships with a damcon of 6...

>>The Alunda HSC has a BPV of 136, but that was accurate before the whipcrack torpedo came along.>>

Well, maybe? The basic Omega 1 stuff *all* (well, ok, *mostly*. The Drex are the outliers) seems slightly under effective (they tended to err on the side of caution), so it is unclear if adding the whipcrack torps made the Alunda worth more than 136, or actually worth almost 136.

>>To balance the ship, I would remove the WT from the plasma whips. Maybe that's just my bias against the WT, but I think it would result in a more balanced ship than removing two BBs would.>>

The problem with that is that the WT are interesting and make the plasma whips considerably more useful than they are otherwise. Which is good.

I don't know that removing the two rear BBs would be the optimal plan for the ship, but it certainly would tweak it down a bit without crippling it.

>> Of course, if you want to be historical, you could leave the WTs but reduce the whips to two.>>

Yeah, that actually might be the more reasonable option, considering that it wants the extra BBs for defense, capacitor, and damage absorption. And removing 2 of the whips also reduces the number of WTs on the map :-)

>>(As an aside, if the PWs are always getting hit, I would make sure the client is using the proper hit conversion. But then again, the distribution of 2d6 rolls on the client has always seemed a little suspicious to me.)>>

Heh. Nah, they only get hit on that Aux Con hit. But it seems like every time I take an initial volley of internals, I lose a Plasma Whip. But really, that is just weird luck, I'm sure.

>>Removing two BBs is not going to change things much initially. When you're going for the high-crunch alpha strike, you still have more weapons than you can fully power. It will make the ship fall apart more quickly, exacerbating an area where it is already weak. It also makes it struggle more against heavy droners. If you lose a couple BBs to damage, have a couple more out of arc, and have to use three more to shoot down drones, while keeping a couple in reserve for defense against his later launches, suddenly, you have no offense. And that assumes you don't have any BBs cooling.>>

This is probably all true. Leading me to believe that the way to go is probably remove two of the plasma whips so the ship looks like the historical CC.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 06:16 pm: Edit

I'm a little leery of removing the RH BB. First, all of the Alunda ships of MC 1 and heavier have them. Second, they add quite a bit for seeking weapon defense.

How about splitting the difference and giving it 3 PW and removing 1 of the FH BB?

I would agree with Peter that the whip crack option adds a nice flavor to the Alunda.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 07:18 pm: Edit

If the rear BBs aren't going to go, I'd remove the 2xPW. If we decide that the Alunda is too good. Lemme see if I win the tournament first before we do anything to it :-)

I agree that the 2 back bio bolts are important for starting energy, damage mitigation, and seeking weapon defense. And they can't generally be armed on an initial strike anyway (well, I can usually find 1 power for the two of them after the first shot, which if I can get in the down shield, is totally worth it). The plasma whips are kind of the outlier weapons--the "only one shot every 32 impulses" means that they are less good for seeking weapon defense than one would think. Often, I'll launch whipcrack torps late on T1, and then not have them cycle again when I make an exchange on T2, so they just end up being a second volley of whipcrack torps late on T2. I could save them on T1, but then I'm giving up the main advantage of the PW (they fire mostly free). Giving up two of them isn't insignificant, but has the advantage of being historically accurate and likely less problematic than removing the back two BBs.

I'm *way* out on the split the difference idea--weird, non symetrical SSDs make me nuts :-)

But again, to be clear, I don't think anything should change until:

A) We play the ship vs some plasma type ships a lot (Trobrin, Probr).

B) We see if I walk all over all my tournament opponents :-)

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 09:10 pm: Edit

Well, maybe just drop one of the rear BBs?

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 07:48 am: Edit

You saw the part where "weird, non symetrical SSDs make me nuts", right?

I think, if anything, the two extra plasma whips should come out, as in looking at the O2 SSDs, it turns out that 12xBB, 4xPW is the same armament as the Alunda DN...

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 08:22 pm: Edit

You are right... With 3 Plasma Whips... It would be non symetrical... unless, we did the following.

1. Eliminate FH BB
2. Increase RH BB to three.
3. Reduce the PW to three with PW A where the FH BB is now.

But I agree... I will wait till after the tournament before I make any changes. And I won't change it until and after Peter approves the next design.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 10:04 pm: Edit

Yeah, that is a 3 step process to bad.

Just remove 2 of the plasma whips. If anything at all.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Another battle report:

bakija (ALU) over baldNforty (PRB)

T1: I have no idea what is going to happen vs plasma, so I figure I'll just go real fast, shoot when I can, and look for an opportunity to corner him. I plot speed 16 for a few impulses and then 31 the rest of the turn (29 moves), hold a weasel, hold an ARF for 2, put 2 into my capacitors (up to 14 total), and turn on my ship. Barry holds 4 standard HEAT torps and moves, like, 21/26/31. We just close till about impulse 16, getting to R8. I expected some torps already, but here we are. Barry launches 2 standard HEATs (i.e. no accentuation) and fires a couple QP2 at me for 6 damage on my #1. Impulse 17, I move to R7 off his #1, so I shoot with 2x 4 point BB, 2x 2 point BB, 4x 1 point BB using 2 battery power. I hit with both heavy bolts and do 36 damage to his #1. He stops 5 damage with batteries and loses a QP3. Next impulse I turn off, he turns in. I launch 4x whiptorps. I slip out a bunch, he gets the plasams on his #2, phasers them to bits, and takes a bit of damage on his #7. I keep running from his plasmas, he launches 2 more of them, and we end the turn at R6, on split shields, his #2/#3, my #5/#6, with 4 of his HEATs on the map, but none in imminent danger of impact.

T2: I clearly need to weasel, so I plot 4/14, hold 1 weasel, hold my ARF, arm a second, and put 18 power into my capacitors. Barry moves some kind of 15/16 plot and rearms stuff. Impulse 1, I blast him with 4x 4 point bio bolts and 2x 1 point bolts. I hit with 3 of the 4 heavy bolts, do 36 damage again to his #3, find 5 battery reinforcement again, and do 7 more in. Having shot most of my guns, Barry turns in after I weasel his 4 torps. I fire my ARF at him after my AFC comes back up, push him away a few impulses, delaying him till I speed up to 14. He gets to R4, shoots me with most of his phasers, and we discover that quantum phasers aren't great at R4--I take a total of 12 damage to my #6 from 4xQP1, 2xQP2, 2xQP3. I speed up, turn at him, get 4 more 1 point BBs in his down #3 for 16 more in, and he throws out the white flag--I get my plasma whips back in a few impulses, he doesn't have much to do to me for the rest of the turn, and the next turn, I get to either run away or weasel his plasmas and keep shooting him.

I think the Probr desperately needed to avoid R7 this game, which didn't happen--if he had used accentuated torps at mid ranges and used his QPs where they are good (i.e. R15 or so) and tried to dance as long as possible, the game would have been vastly different. All we really discovered here that the Probr really shouldn't get close when it doesn't have to :-)

That being said, I'm still siding on the Alunda being a bit too good. And will continue to probably think that taking out 2 of the plasma whips is the way to go in the long run (matching the firepower of the published Alunda CC).

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 06:17 pm: Edit

I would agree with that assessment about the Alunda being a bit too good. I'm still thinking the Probr is a bit on the weak side... but your right that I should have tried the long range game first.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 08:06 pm: Edit

We'll see how it goes with the Trobrin. Which I imagine is kind of terrifying.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 02:34 pm: Edit

bakija (ALU) vs baldnforty (TRO)

We played 2 turns, the game was at an inconclusive point when Barry had to bail. I think he was still in good shape when we called it.

T1: I plot speed 16 for a few impulses and then 31 the rest of the turn, hold a weasel and an ARF, and put 3 power into my capacitor (15 power). Barry, in the Trobrin (which is kinda scary) moves some kind of 17/31 plot holding his 2x Implosion Bolts, all 3 Implosion Torps, and pre-plotted a HET (presumably). We close, there is some wacky turning (he goes C, I go F, we fly past each other, and then both turn toward each other again), and we close at high speed. We get to about R8, he launches an Implosion Torp (which is apparently a total mystery as to warhead and launcher when it comes out) and shoots me in the #2 for 14 damage with one of his Implosion Bolts (his guns have a LS/RS arc mostly). He turns off, and I come into R7 of his #3. I launch 4x whipcrack torps and fire 2x 4 point BB and 8x 1 point BBs. I hit with 1 of the 2 heavy BBs and all of the 1 pointers for a total of 34 damage on his 24 box #3. He stops 4 with batteries (presumably) and loses 6 armor (of 8). Next impulse, I turn off to run from his torp and he HETs back in my direction. I run the rest of the turn, he eats the 4 whipcrack torps on his #6 for 20 damage. We end the turn at about R6, me facing A, him facing E, he has a torpedo on the map at about 3 hexes from me.

T2: He has a down #3 and a 10 box #6, which I figure I can shoot one of. I plot a deceleration plot of 26/19/9/4, pre-plot a HET (as I have to due to no reserve warp), put 13 power in my capacitor, and keep holding my ARF and a weasel. Barry moves 24/31/24 of some type, holds and arms guns. Impulse 2, Barry turns up to face me with his armed Implosion Bolt and other armed Light Implosion Torp. I HET to get on his 10 box #6. I ID the plasma on the map (a light torp) and eat it for 2 damage on my #5 (Implosion Torps are 16 warhaed as lights, 32 as heavies, they lose 1 point of warhead every time they move, and blow up at R1 instead of R0). We are range 4, so we shoot. I shoot his #6 with 3x 4 point BBs, 3x 1 point BBs, hit with 2 of each for 30 damage, doing 14 internals after his 2 armor and batteries. I hit an Implosion Bolt and some power. He hits me for 40 damage with the other IB and his Radiation Phasers (which don't roll dice--they always do the exact same damage). I take 18 internals, losing a BB, a Plasma Whip (still, I lose 1 every volley :-), a battery, and some power. He launches his last Implosion Torp at me and we separate some. I see the writing on the wall, so I emergency decel, launch my weasel, and take some collateral on my #4. Barry turns off and runs. Late in the turn, he turns his down #3 to me at long range, and I zing him with 2 more 1 point BBs, hitting with both for 2 in, and hit his other Implosion Bolt (leaving him with 0 Implosion Bolts) and a warp. We call it here, as Barry has to go and do something for his wife :-)

At the end of the game, I had 18 internals, a down #5, a half #2, and a scuffed #4, and was stopped. He had a down #3 and #6, 16 actual internals (and 8 dead armor), having lost both Implosion Bolts and, 3 or 4 power, and a couple P3s. He was moving fast and had the whole map to run and rearm his 3x Implosion Torps that he had left. Me killing both Implosion Bolts was a drag, but I suspect he still had a strong position--I had to get back up to speed from a dead stop against a ship with 3x plasmas. So for my money, it was still a game.

The Trobrin is kind of scary--2x Implosion Bolts (kind of like Photons that hit more often); 1x Heavy Implosion Torp (32 warhead), 2x Light Implosion Torps (16 warhead), 6x Phaser 1R (they just always do the exact amount of damage--they might be slightly better than a P1 most of the time) and 4x Phaser 3R, a 2/3 move cost, and 8 armor (but not much hull, actually--maybe 6x F hull and 2x aft). The guns are LS/RS (although the Heavy Torp is HP). Seems generally reasonable but certainly powerful.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 09:19 pm: Edit

Peter,

That analysis is fairly on, however, the main guns of the Trobrin are the implosion bolts. The implosion torps are mostly there for overrun deterrence.

I would rate the heavy implosion torp as slightly more powerful than a plasma G.

I would rate the light implosion torps as far weaker than a plasma F.

Unlike a plasma ship, the Trobrin can not fast load it's implosion torps. By the time I had torps to fire at you, you would already be at good speed again.

The Alunda is really nasty inside of range 7. A four point BB does 10 if it hits and has a hit number equivalent of 3.5... Actual hit number is 7 on 2d6, which I convert to a hit number for 1d6 and call a hit number equivalent.

So at range 7 the four point BB is slightly less accurate and almost double the damage output of an overloaded disruptor.

At range 4 and less the four point gets even more powerful and accurate. At range 2, the four point BB starts to get close to a photon in damage output and accuracy but for half the power and the ship has a lot of them.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 07:45 am: Edit

Oh, sure--the BBs are certainly dangerous. At R7, firing a 4 pointer is a reasonable gamble most of the time. Hitting for 10 with a 58% chance of hitting is a good deal if you are moving fast enough that you can get away or are unlikely to be overrun and killed. But the cool down period isn't completely insignificant at that point.

In terms of the Trobrin, yeah, the Implosion Bolts are certainly important, but the Torps are still pretty solid, weapon wise, and the Bolts actually fix reasonably cheaply (8 it turns out). It isn't at all unreasonable to plan on fixing and rearming one of them.

And man. Those Radiation Phasers are nuts. I mean, yeah, they don't really do significantly more damage than a P1 (I think they do more than P1s that roll cruddy :-), but without the chance of crapping out, they are always worth firing. Sniping at down or weak shields at long range is always going to be a worthwhile use of power.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 07:39 am: Edit

A couple of things that we all just discovered in the Omega Errata File:

-Alunda ships pay 2 BPV per plasma whip to be able to use Whipcrack Torps. Not a huge impact on the tournament ship, but something to consider when tweaking it.

-Alunda ships never pay for life support. Which is actually a significant issue for the TC. As now it has 1 more power every turn.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Saturday, April 02, 2011 - 09:52 am: Edit

Peter,

Didn't realize you didn't know that Alunda don't pay for life support.

Also, keep in mind that your adrenaline batter, the whole bank of boxes, not each individual box, generates one point of power per turn. This only happens if you start the turn with a battery box that isn't entirely full. So, in practice, your A-battery gland generates power on turns 2 and later.

Yes the rad phasers are quite nice. Average damage is quite a bit higher than standard phasers. The guaranteed damage is also quite nice.
PR-3 actually do significant damage at a longer range than normal too.
The major downside of PR is in drone defense. A single PR-3 can't possibly destroy a drone, unless it fires at range 0.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 06:44 pm: Edit

Barry wrote:
>>Didn't realize you didn't know that Alunda don't pay for life support. >>

Heh. It isn't in the Omega 1 rules (but the Omega 1 SSDs all have 0 listed as Life Support Cost, which I only just noticed) and I only saw it in the errata that someone posted in the Omega section recently. It might be in Omega 2, but I don't have that rulebook (but do have the SSDs I got in a spare parts box at Origins one year). In any case, I had no idea. My ship is even better now. Gadzooks :-)

>>Also, keep in mind that your adrenaline batter, the whole bank of boxes, not each individual box, generates one point of power per turn. This only happens if you start the turn with a battery box that isn't entirely full. So, in practice, your A-battery gland generates power on turns 2 and later. >>

Oh, sure. That is made clear in the basic rules set. In practice, I don't think I have ever benefitted from the free energy reload in the batteries yet--even with 8xF hull, I tend to lose a battery on every initial exchange, so the empty battery from T1 (or T2 if I didn't empty on on T1) generally gets killed before it gets refilled.

>>Yes the rad phasers are quite nice. Average damage is quite a bit higher than standard phasers. The guaranteed damage is also quite nice.>>

I'm interested to do a side by side average damage analysis of all the Omega P1s vs the regular P1 (which I'm sure someone has already done and posted on the interwebs somewhere, but still...) to confirm that the RP1 is pretty much just better than a regular P1. And the WP1 is pretty much just worse.

>>PR-3 actually do significant damage at a longer range than normal too.
The major downside of PR is in drone defense. A single PR-3 can't possibly destroy a drone, unless it fires at range 0.>>

Well, you already know my feelings on Omega ships and drone defense (i.e. I'm a big fan of Omega being balanced with Omega, and just not worrying about Omega vs Alpha), but in terms of, say, Tachyon Missile defense, they are totally reasonable, if not better than other phasers--you ID the missile and shoot exactly what you need to shoot at it (which is always going to be multiple phasers anyway), and not worry about over killing (or missing).

By David Zimdars (Zimdarsdavid) on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 11:45 am: Edit

Hi,

I had the opportunity to play baldnforty last night on SFBOL. He was playing the omega Koligahr unsanctioned TC he wanted to playtest. I took the Kzinti TC (before I knew the Koligahr rules). Baldnforty kindly explained the Koligahr rules and the Koligar weapons charts. By the time he was done I knew I had stepped into a large cow-pie by choosing to fly the Kzinti. My opponent offered to let me change ships, but I decided to soldier on and keep my choice. I kind of took a “what the heck” attitude and thought I’d experiment with a “no worries” attitude if I shot myself in the foot. I may not remember every detail perfectly, but the narrative is close.

Turn 1:
Prior to the rules explanation, I had already plotted a Kzinti C-Clamp maneuver, which is designed to time the SP blossom so that 4 speed 32 drones from the SP meetup with the Kzinti in the same hex and the Kzinti can launch 4 more speed 32 drones and have 8 drones with 3 heavies on the board in the same hex. I did modifiy this a bit after thinking about the Koligar. The antimatter cloud could whack at least one drone (if I launched only 1 at a time) and my ship inside of range 11. Likewise, a stack drones in one hex would be dead as it closes. I like mass of drones at the same range because anything else gives the opponent time to split shields and bring weapons to bear over impulses. The C-clamp keeps the SP and drones at a range likely >10 until well after launch (in most cases). So I thought I’d just modify the drone flight path from all in one hex to spread out over 4 hexes (2 in each hex) ( and hope that the Koligahr wouldn’t get in line of hexes to prevent that too early). It kind of seemed inevitable that the drones would bunch, but I thought just maybe he’d fire the cloud earlier. Since the antimatter cloud couldn’t fire at range 0, my plan was to take the Koligahr’s punch and try to over-run in turn 2, trying to use disruptors and phasers at close range in a knife fight. So for imp 23-32 I flew speed 31 and did not arm disruptors. I put 4 in tractor. In addition to the SP I held a SS. I started arming 2 WW. I wanted these shuttles at close range.

The Kohligahr had plotted about speed 12 for first half of turn, and then 24 for second half (or something close). I got my drones out as expected and got them as wide as 4 (2 per hex) but then by range 3 they were about 4, 2 and 2 over 3 hexes. We got to range three after imp25, I think. I held my fire, expecting more like a Klingon shot, which would only do about 10 internals or so. I was gambling that I’d be able to fire over 32-1 on the same shield closer. This was a mistake, and I should have armed the disr with bats and fired an ovld plus phasers. The Kohligar fired with at least 4 doubles and I think some MP1’s and I took a wallop of at least 56 points if I recall. His alpha seems second only to a Fed like wallop at range 3. A Klingon, on average, will do less than this at R3. And he didn’t fire all the MP’s. He also fired the cloud at my ship (but I spread those around the back). The cloud did take out 2 drones. I took 26 in my #1 (again mis-judging I should have used the batts, I was still hoping to anchor). He took out 1p1, 2 p3, 1 disr, and 1 drone. Next couple of impulses I closed to range 2 . About imp 30 I tried to anchor, to use up his tractor, and made him put 3 points into. So he couldn’t easily tractor drones. The Kohligar turned away on I32 and in a true “what the heck” attitude, staying close was at the cost of having turn in with the down #1 facing him on i32. The good news (sort of) was that I had about 6 drones at range 2. He (logically) fired his remaining MP’s at me and I took another 8-10 in the #1. This stripped me of another p1 and the other 2 p3. This left me with 3 disr., 2 P1 360, and 4 rear p3s. Ick. I had fired my remaining 2p1 at his #3 and scored 8. I had few weapons, but power was OK.

Turn #2:
Prospects didn’t look good, but I had enough going on the board to want to play out the next turn. The Kohligar seemed committed to weasel on imp 1. He’d fired at me and not the drones with his facing MP’s . Had the drones gotten to range 1, he’d be toast on imp 1, but at range 2 he could launch a weasel on imp 1. I did have another tractor, and I could have tried to anchor again on imp 1, but I figured he’d expect it, and I’d lose the range 2 auction at great cost in power. I figured he’d still have to put something into tractor so maybe he’d stop or go slow the whole turn. My plan was to tac 3 times and then to accelerate to 3 in reverse so I could get my rear P3’s to bear and use my Kzinti disrupter arcs in the overrun. I would use my 2 weasels to cover my advance in reverse and hopefully prevent being tactored while reducing damage a bit. I recharged my remaining phasers, overloaded my remaining 3 disr., and put 4 into tractor, holding my SS and completing the ww arming.

We both announced speed 0. On imp 1 he weaseled. On imp 2 we both taced. The drones hit the sp and he took 10 collateral damage to his #5 shield. So he had 2 damaged rear side shields. I weaseled. I taced again, and then again so my #4 was facing him. He taced again too. His fc came back up and he killed the weasel. He announced a speed change to 4. He had to move straight, and we were now at R1. I tossed another ww. I announced speed change to 3 in reverse (and got a little bit startled reaction). For some reason he didn’t shoot ww right away. I was able to move to the shield with the 10 collateral (but with the side with only 1 disr.). I fired 2 P3s, and 2P1s, and 1 overloaded disr. I hit with good rolls, and he took 13 internals. He fired but actually missed with AC’s and wasn’t able to bring down the shield. When my FC was back up, I tried to tractor him. I auctioned off about 6 pts of power, hoping to prevent a speed change or HET. Timing then helped me, as speed 3 moved before speed 4. I turned in, onto the down shield at range 0. I don’t think he had a MP facing me. He would not move for 2 impulses. I launched the SS but not the drones, figuring he might not launch the ww if he didn’t see the drones first (sequence of play ). This somehow worked. I fired 2 more p3s in, doing 8 more damage. Next impulse he took 18 in the down shield. He had a few more internal damage than I had now, but suffered very bad from Mizia and having few facing MP’s as he lost 4 of 5 torps ( I think). Next impulse I launched 3 type I sp 20 drones in a pattern which guaranteed 1 hit depending on where he moved. He chose to take the 12 on his #4. He managed to use MP’s on the remaining 2 drones. EOT I repaired the damaed disr. to range 10.

The Kohligar conceded as he had only 1 torp, 1 cloud and a few MP’s I most likely would have gotten 2 ovld disr shots and 2p1 and 2p3 at range 2 on imp 1, plus had 3 drones to drain in on him. He probably could have bricked that, so I suppose I might have maneuvered to get all 4 disr on him at range 1. I’m not sure it was guaranteed I’d knock him out next turn
I was pretty surprised I won in the end.

****

Regarding playtesting, I think the Kohligar will be very hard if not impossible to balance, particularly against drones. Both the microphasers and the cloud are auto hit (or nearly so) at close range. The microphaser auto-hit characteristics mean that drone defense is much more automatic. So there is no variance. Take one too many microphasers away and you automatically guarantee this ship will be overwhelmed. But of course it has tractors and ww like everyone else. But put one too many microphaser on it and you guarantee that this ship will overwhelm everyone else. Furthermore, 5 antimatter cannon is just too much. Likewise, 2 antimatter clouds is too much. A recommendation would be to delete 2 antimatter cannon and make the 3 FA, and to put only 1 antimatter cloud on it and make the cloud 360, add 1 MP 3 FA and make the 2 other MP3 RA. Its just really hard to figure out a balance that isn’t too much. The standard balancing act is to remove heavy weapons and add in some phasers. But adding in these MP’s after having the proper number heavy weapons is unbalancing.

-David Zimdars (AdmiralDZZI)

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 12:06 pm: Edit

As previously noted, I'm a big fan of simply not worrying about the balance that comes from Omega vs Alpha. None of those ships and technologies were designed to fight Alpha ships, and as such, trying to balance them out is going to be wildly difficult.

Vs Omega ships, the basic Kholigar is fine--it is kind of strong vs the plasma reliant empires (Probr maybe, although I'm pretty sure the HEATs are extra resistant to phasers, so it evens out; the Trobrin have strong direct fire also; the Alunda don't need to whipcrack vs the Kholigar; I have never seen the Shadows, er, Souldra in play, but given their general technology, I suspect they'll be ok)in the Omega sector, but none of them are as plasma dependent as Alpha Big Plasma is. Vs Omega ships with "drones" (i.e. the Maesron), the Tachyon Missiles aren't that big of a deal one way or the other anyway, and it isn't like you are going to have 10 in a hex to get killed by the ACG.

Yeah, the traditional Kholigar (4xAC, 2xACG, 8xMP1, 2xMP3) is going to be really brutal vs, like, Alpha Big Plasma and Alpha drone ships. But that is ok. And not, for my money, really worth worrying about so much. But against traditional Omega opponents, the 4xAC, 2xACG, 8xMP1, and 2xMP3 is likely completely reasonable in most situations--sure, it'll have games where it is advantaged and games where it is disadvantaged like everyone else. But in general, the traditional Kholigar cruiser is completely reasonable. It is like a Fed with an expensive, goofy back up weapon but split torp arcs.

Make the Omega ships balance vs the Omega ships. Scale them to work with Alpha ships, sure, but make sure everyone knows that those match ups are "play at your own risk".

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 12:15 pm: Edit

David wrote:
>>Regarding playtesting, I think the Kohligar will be very hard if not impossible to balance, particularly against drones.>>

See, there are no drones in the Omega sector, so the Kholigar isn't designed to be balanced against drones. And trying to balance it against drones is asking for it to fail as a ship that is balanced against other Omega ships.

The MPs are very good vs drones. The ACG is incredibly very good vs drones. But in the Omega rules set, there aren't any drones.

The Maesron have Tachyon Missiles that tend to be big and difficult to kill, but don't do a ton of damage, and there aren't that many of on the map anyway--a typical TM is, like, 10 damage to kill, doing 12 damage when it hits, and a standard cruiser can launch 1 per turn. So an ACG is generally going to kill 1 Tachyon Missile, which isn't that great of a trade off. There are fighters, which, in the Omega sector, tend to be slow and purely direct fire, and so the ACG is good against a cloud of these, but those aren't something in the tournament, so not really worth worrying about.

So, yeah, we could worry about how the Kholigar is very difficult to balance vs drones or Plasma (which it is), and go nuts trying to fix that (which will never actually work so well), or we could say "The basic Kholigar cruiser is totally reasonable vs other Omega ships", and go from there. Which is really, the thing I super suggest.

>>Likewise, 2 antimatter clouds is too much.>>

It is certainly too much vs, say, the Kzinti or the Klingon. But the Kholigar isn't supposed to be fighting those guys anyway.

>> A recommendation would be to delete 2 antimatter cannon and make the 3 FA, and to put only 1 antimatter cloud on it and make the cloud 360, add 1 MP 3 FA and make the 2 other MP3 RA. Its just really hard to figure out a balance that isn’t too much.>>

I really think the optimal plan is just go back to the original design (2xAC FA, 1xAC LF/L, 1xAC RF/R, 1xACG LS, 1xACG RS, 8xMP1 in various arcs tending LS/RS, 2xMP3) and tweak it vs Omega opponents and leave it at that.