Archive through October 03, 2010
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
Klingon Tactics:
Archive through October 03, 2010
This is picking up on my erroneous posts over in the Kzinti board:
My dilemma in redeploying my forces is that I'm anticipating the Hydrans fielding at least one CA class in all the battles(or possibly two Tartars) and so I don't want to get caught putting a frigate or destroyer by its self. My forces are a mix of Romulan and Klingon with the majority being Romulan. I have an F5D which seems only suited for the base siege battle.
It's suited for shooting drones at things, which isn't the same thing.
If you want to use drones as a damaging weapon instead of simply phaser sinkage and influencing your enemy's movment, you need to saturate the enemy's defense with drones and then some. A lone F5D can't do that. (the F5D, IIRC, is a combat-drone ship which mixes it up with the enemy, not a drone bombardment ship). You need at least enough drones to threaten a unit with saturation or they won't have much effect.
To use that ship, you need a klink contingent with heavy drone firepower. A F5D can put a dent in hydran fighters using (expensive) starfish drones or soak phasers using (VERY expensive) MW drones, but you really want to fight an opponet without special sensors or these drones get turned off before they can do their thing.
Well the base won't have the use of the special sensors and I had hoped that merely throwing drones at the base would have the effect of soaking phasers and/or weasels, allowing the Roms to use their plasma more effectively.
That might work if you treat your drones as multi-turn weapons and time a late last turn + early next turn + SP to hit the same turn your plasmas do.
IIRC the F5D has 5 drone racks, giving you a total of 16 drones per plasma launch cycle until you run out of drones. That plus plasma might be enough to wrry someone. 16 Type I drones should soak up approvimately 24 P-G pulses, or 6 fighter's worth.
beware having drones targeting the base hitting at the same time as the plasmas. You don't want him weaseling off your entire turn's firepower. target your drones on something else, your plasmas, something.
This is an Economy of Force campaign, correct?
The Economy of Force campaign, to the best of my (admittedly spotty) memory is all about force mismatches. With a frigate against even a couple of cruisers, you're going to draw using the modified victory conditions even if destroyed. Don't be afraid to mass a decent fleet against a critical location and let a frigate die a lonely death in order to win.
Well we have gotten started and I was able to add a SKL to the mix. Our Coalition is actually divided along racial lines with me flying the Klingon F5D and my son flying the Romulans. I told him I would be staying back and bunching my drones up to maximize their threat(no SPs). On turn one he took off to the base(he's still learning). Our opponent only had a KN and CU defending the base and did not set up particularly well IMO; so those ships were not of much use for the turn. By the end of the turn the Roms had pulled back out, had taken about 30 internals to the SupK and we had taken out 2 Stingers, crip 2 more, killed a WW from the base and had about 30 points of plasma ready to hit the KN on imp 1 of turn 2. Turn 2 saw my 10 drones(5-t1, 5-t2)kill another WW and eat up the gats from the Stingers on the board. We killed the WW from the KN. All 4 GSFs died, but it looks like the GIIs will get out. The Roms cloaked and are reloading and repairing and going into turn 3, the plan is to set up for a big turn 4 barrage w/ drones and plasmas. The KN is particularly vulnerable w/o a WW, so at the least I'm hoping to kill it. We'll see.
I have a question for my Klingon brothers. How do I fight Andros. effectively? I will soon be playing the NW2 scenario "Three against Cortez". I know I don't have alot of crunch power and he can kill drones at will. Any advice will be welcome. By the way for the record: 1 Conq. w/Cobra v/s D7b,D5, and F5b, year 173. Long live the Empire!
First, read the Andromedan rules. Focus on the PA panel rules.
Disruptors leak thru PA panels. This lets you snipe at range and do (very) minor internals, altho sometimes you will get a Hail Mary and nail a PA panel or TR beam. This will irritate him IMMENSELY.
Secondly, read the Displacement Device rules. Be glad you have speed-20 drones, as at least those are a threat.
Thirdly, and for the love of Bhudda, Santa Claus, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster, MEMORIZE THE TRACTOR BEAM RULES!!!!
Remember, he has 5-point batteries and can play reserve power games like you wouldn't BELIEVE.
And don't be afraid to kill the Cobra first.
Fixed or open map? Makes a huge difference.
If you're on a fixed map, you can keep pressure on him, make it hard for him to break away and play panel tricks.
Suggestions:
Check out the disruptor leak rules. They were written for occasions as this.
You WANT ECM drones, as many as you can carry. they will give you the EW advantage since he has a cobra, not an eel.
Settle in for a long game. Don't try to overrun him. Keep your phasers back to make him ovrruning you painful. Hold your disruptors back as long as is practical in order to deter or punish late-turn panel tricks.
You probably want to work the cortez and ignore the cobra if you can.
PRAY he dis-devs into combat, but expect he'll dis-dev out. Remember the in-game Andro dis-dev will jump him as far as 12 hexes, not 6 as in the tournament game.
Remember he has to tell you when he's going to dis-dev, so he can't do the fire-and-dis-dev without giving you a chance to shoot at him as well. Naturally he can shoot without annoucing dis-dev so you might want to shoot anti-mizia volley at him at like range-5 (so internals he might score hit already-fired weapons) and hold everything else for his Dis-Dev announcement.
Behind those panels, andro ships are brittle. One torp hit on the Cortez costs them 1/3 of their heavy weapons potential. A COQ is little more than a Python on steroids.
if the game stays at long range, use tailored narrow salvos to apply damage in groups of 3 or 4. it takes a long time to sandblast an andro meaningfully, but you can apply a little pressure to his energy balance in the short term, and use a bit of his damage control capacity up before the fight gets hot. the paperwork is his punishment for playing a lame strategy.
if he makes a run at you, you can't hit him with drones, but you can sometimes make him shoot your drones (instead of just laughing at them) if he wants to get a good shot at you. any battle pass that gets aborted between range 15 and 9 is good for you.
Thanks for the advice on fighting the Andros. Now for something completely different. My friend and I were discussing Hydran v/s Klingon fights. For example, how in the world does a D7 fight a Ranger with 9 fighters onboard. It is a realistic possibility since these are the standard heavies of their fleets, and would likely run into each other on patrol. I could see the D7 having his hands full. What are your respective opinions on this duel or a similiar one with different size classes. Thanks for the feedback.
Scatterpack(s) would almost be mandatory. Do not charge in on the ranger if the fighters are close. Basically you would have to sabre dance, and I would start with picking off the fighters.
BPV-wise, it is an uphill fight for the D7. Ranger + 9 fighters = 180 minimum BPV. Even with refits and fast drones, the D7 will have trouble breaking 150.
Fighter management is crucial. You'll want TBs to control where they go, ECM drones to keep the EW edge. Consider investing starfish drones as well.
All while trying to keep the actual Ranger at bay when it has nothing better to do than run you down, close to point blank, and alpha you.
Find a nebula. Then it's easy.
"Thanks for the advice on fighting the Andros. Now for something completely different. My friend and I were discussing Hydran v/s Klingon fights. For example, how in the world does a D7 fight a Ranger with 9 fighters onboard. It is a realistic possibility since these are the standard heavies of their fleets, and would likely run into each other on patrol. I could see the D7 having his hands full. What are your respective opinions on this duel or a similiar one with different size classes. Thanks for the feedback"
If you are going Historical BPV, a lone D7 ISN'T going to fight that Ranger alone....he's probably going to have an E4 or F5 with him to it balanced. You could also simply give the Ranger less fighters (previous losses,etc).
If you are going Non-Historical BPV, then after he gets all his refits and drone speed upgrades paid for, he will probably have an interceptor or two on mech-links to make up the difference.
If you are going Straight Historical, the Klingon player is going to A) get a huge VP bonus due to the difference, and B) saber dance, saber dance, saber dance. The D7 won't close until all the fighters are dead (from narrow-salvo disruptors, of course...), and THEN maybe consider dumping a scatterpack to cover his attack run on the Ranger.
The Ranger, of course, can counter this by keeping the fighters in the bays until AFTER he has anchored the D7...
With both ships unrefitted and an open map, the D7 can win since it has longer ranged weapons and more speed. One approach is to sabre dance until the Ranger turtles up, then threaten overload passes to to force the fighters onto the map where they can be sniped. It'll be a long fight and not much fun for either player.
On a closed map, the D7 gets to scream before it dies.
Ouch! I think I'll take an escort and use an open map. I know this fight is a bugger for the Klingon. Maybe another option as far as BPV goes would be to fight a slightly smaller ship with less fighters. Thanks for the advice.
Just flew a Klingon F5Ky against a Gorn DDF. 84x60 hex map, Y178. Started 50 hexes apart, WSIII, speed max.
A tough road for the Klingon. I came out fast on turn 1, slowing late to launch a scatterpack and recover the shuttle. From there I settled into a sabre dance.
The Gorn basically marched across the map at moderate speed, slowing to launch a WW against the SP drones. He managed to keep a steady 4-5 points of ECM pumping at all time, and on the turn where he used his WW, managed a 5 point brick.
After 4 turns (and some admittedly below average disruptor shots), I had scored a few points of shield damage, but little else. The Gorn held his torps, minimized the slow down from the WW, and just boxed the F5 into a corner. With the threat of 60 points of plasma, and only 1 WW to try and get a close range shot in, I chose the better part of valor and disengeged.
Anybody got any thoughts on this one? The F5K is a decent ship in groups, but my experiences with it in duels has been an unhappy one, unless fighting a similarly-sized Kzinti or Lyran. Just not enough firepower to do meaningful damage, and not enough defense to survive encounters with massed seekers or heavy direct fire ships. It can't overload frequently in the match above without the risk of an overrun, and with only one shuttle, counting on a WW to save the day is a good way to get killed. I could see going in behind the drones and trying to fight like a Kzinti, but it seems the fragility of the ship makes that a dicey proposition.
Curious if anyone else had any luck with the ship in this kind of setting.
Plasma vs drones always gets weird, eventually.
Problem is, with the phaser-2's, you HAVE to get close to do a decent alpha, and the Gorn WANTS you to get close.
I think your mistake was to use the SP early. It should be kept back as a 'threat' weapon, because he knows you can only do it once.
And if you have to WW, you are probably dead. Best defense for any Klink vs plasma is speed and manueverability.
Of course, if you can get behind him, you can usually stay on his tail, unless he starcastles.
Speed is your friend vs. plasma. I would be very hesitant to use the weasel in this fight. If he tries to drive you to the corner, pester him with drones, and as was mentioned, keep the scatterpack as a threat if he wants to close.
This may not be well thought out but this is a thought.
Approach obliquely ready to turn and run after a close pass to draw out a plasma or two and maybe even a phaser shot (trying to spread out the damage a bit). Close enough so that the Gorn knows he will hit you before the plasma runs out. You goal is to take the plasma but at something less than full strength. Then go for broak. HET and tractor him after launching drones. Launch your scatter pack whenever appropreate. This might be while still running or after the tractor, it depends on the Gorns phaser fire.
The point is that your seeking weapons have more damage potential than his by a long shot, but yours is easier to counter.
Ultimately it's going to end with one ship destroyed and one crippled. Otherwise play open space and hope you can peg at him all day faster than he can repair shields. [yuk]
Again, please note I didn't check SSDs here. I'm working purely from memory.
i agree with everything you said, jeremy, including that you have an uphill fight.
but he's turn mode C, no safe HET, centerline weapon suite. you can cough up your t-bombs, most of your drones, and maybe 15-20 shield damage deficit, and if HIS #3 is off YOUR #3, you have an even game. so, yeah, you follow the drones in, i think. not going for hack-and-slash; just trying to make him either a) turn off, or b) have to lob a plasma or two to keep you from getting a range 3 shot on his number 1.
my feeling with this game-plan, is that either you have to outguess him badly on an EA somewhere, or he has to make a mistake. its a bad feeling going into battle like that, but you get a few opportunities to outguess him, and the size mistake you need, may not be very large.
You could upgrade to an F5W as well.
Meh. F6B's are better.
The F5K lives in a place the Gorn don't frequent. At 75 points plus drone speed, it's below a DDF and above an FF+. With out the fleet refit, I think an F5 (even without the K refit) would stomp a Gorn DD+. One G is not much of a deterrent.
An F5W or F6B would be more in the realm of a BDD+. Although the F6 is probably more fair against an HDD. ;)