Y167 is tough because you don't have warp booster packs yet. But all is not lost. As others have mentioned, fusion beams don't have to be point blank weapons only, especially when combined with hellbores in fleet battles. Fire fusions (and even phaser 3s and Gs on the fighters) at range 10, recovering and reloading the fighters. This will be tricky without warp booster packs, but it can be done. Combined with the phaser-2s on your ships, this is usually sufficient to create a "weakest shield" on a ship large enough that your opponent doesn't want to lose it. Keep your speed up high enough that you can turn away and stay out of overload range on your reload turn. If you're lucky, your opponent was preparing for a point-blank slugfest, and won't be able to return fire effectively beyond range 8.

Let's say you have a fleet with a Dragoon, Knight, Lancer, and two Hunters. With fighters, that's:

21 fusion beams
18 phaser 2
7 phaser 3 (on the Stinger-1s)
6 hellbores

At range 10-15, that would yield, on average:

fusion beams: 38.5 points of damage
phaser 2: 12 points
phaser 3: 2.3 points

That adds up to 52.8 points, if you get average dice rolls, assuming I am remembering the damage charts correctly (and assuming no ECM shift). That should be sufficient to create a weakest shield. Then you can Mizia him with the hellbores.

And once you start getting Stinger-2s and Stinger-Hs, and refits for you ships that add phaser-1s, it will only get better. Of course, your opponents will get faster drones and refits of their own, plus their own fighters.

Keeping the range open also has a couple of other advantages:

1. Drone defense is easier
2. Your fighters are less likely to run over a hidden T-bomb
3. Your fighters don't have to deal with ADDs (although they don't become an issue until the Klingons start getting refits and war cruiser/war destroyer hulls).

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 03:55 pm: Edit

gotta be really careful managing the fighter fusions. IMO a really high priority is keeping your opponent (i am imagining klingon or lyran here, but i think it is true for a lot of other races) from getting a clean pass in the 4-5 bracket. the threat of range 0 annihilation is one of the primary resources you have available. in the absence of forward-firing gatlings it's up to the fusions.

i tend to think that picking up the fighters is too passive- pretty sure anyone who could pull it off against me wouldn't need to, to beat me. YMMV of course. i especially don't see that lancer holding up too well while the reloading is going on.

the good news is 25 damage is plenty to set up the HBs against most targets.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 04:02 pm: Edit

There is probably a rotation procedure needed here.

Maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of the fighters take the long range shot and keep unfired fusions to keep the enemy back while the rest are reloaded.

Reminder that the ready rack for a ST-1 or 2 holds 8 fusion charges. The rearming ship doesn't have to expend power for the first fighter fusion recharge. hellbores are a different story.

By Kevin Humar-Barrett (Cheethorne) on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 04:59 pm: Edit

How well do Hydran ships, both fusion and hellbore types, fare against Plasma opponents, especially in fleet and squadron sized battles?

I would imagine that fusion armed ships don't do so well since getting close to a bunch of plasma ships sounds like a dangerous idea. But I'm not sure how a hellbore fleet would compete.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Hydrans kill plasma fleets.

Gatlings shred plasma like it doesn't even exist, which usually forces the plasma player to rely on bolts. Either way, he has to get close (even in a non-EW environment), and the Hydran wants to get close, regardless if he has fusions OR hellbores.

If he has mainly hellbores, the Hydran kills you at range 40 if you try and plasma ballet, and if you try and anchor..er...no, you don't want to try and anchor....

If you cloak against Hydrans, they overrun you and you die.

Hydrans and plasma simply don't play well together....

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 08:21 pm: Edit

Actually it's gatlings and plasma that don't play well together (considering that each Ph-G is 7-8 off the plasma warhead) and Hydrans come with 2 per ship plus one per fighter [escorts having MORE!!].

By Kevin Humar-Barrett (Cheethorne) on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 08:08 am: Edit

Mike:
I was thinking that if a Gorn squadron and a Hydran squadron both got to point-blank range to fire, that the Gorn would come out ahead.

Or would it simply be a better tactic to have a hellbore-heavy fleet and not close to that kind of range? From what I'm seeing, if you do want to get close, say range 5-8, and have a high speed, you'll do ok because you have a good ability to shred his plasma.

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 11:06 am: Edit

the years involved may make a difference also. The speed 40 plasmas can limit the number of opportunities to shoo the plasma. Aslo the ECP Plasmas can force the Hydran to use additional power for EW and slow him down a little. It is tough on the Gorns. Save the phasers for the fighters, cripple or kill them first if possible.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Why would a gorn even *want* to get to point blank range to a hydran, when his 9the gorn's) heavy weapons function just as well at range-5 as range-1?

The gorn would want to say "you want range 2 or less, fly through my plasma" Nothing else is sane.

A hellbore heavy fleet can fight at a distance, which complicates the gorn ability to make his plasma effective. If you have primarily hellbores at your disposal, why close? What's in it for you?

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 04:11 pm: Edit

If you want an even match between plasma and Hydrans I'd consider giving the plasma side more BPV to spend (probably best to bid for it after setting the year and rules in use). Gorn BPVs are based on their ability to fight Roms, their only major opponent; Rom BPVs are based on their ability against Feds - and we know from tourney that a balanced-against-the-overall-field Fed has real trouble with balanced-against-the-overall-field Roms.

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 04:48 pm: Edit

You cant balance based on the tourney, you dont use all the rules as in a regular game. they are two different animals, EW alone creates another level of depth to consider.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 04:50 pm: Edit

IMHO in the full game the Roms are severely disadvantaged against the Feds for a number of reasons.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 05:23 pm: Edit

While tourney will differ from any particular groups version of the regular game I do consider standard Feds are one of the weakest major races to use against plasma (Massed NCLs may beat Sparrowhawks but it's playable, unlike massed D5s or Tartars). I stand by my main point of 'let plasma bring more BPV' - against many opponents they'll need it.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 05:30 pm: Edit

also watch your scenario rules.

floating map really hurts plasma.

By Kevin Humar-Barrett (Cheethorne) on Friday, June 03, 2011 - 08:03 am: Edit

Thanks for the advice. It will be very helpful.

By Andrew Granger (Captaincf) on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Maybe someone should write a scenario for the Hydran v. Romulan battles from the General War. OK, if you all insist, I will do it.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 07:15 pm: Edit

There are some in Federation Commander.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 07:44 pm: Edit

There was supposed to be a campaign (never completed by the proposer and thus never published) about the operations of a Romulan task force (Federation & Empire "expeditionary fleet") in Klingon space, resulting in combats between Romulan ships and Kzinti and Hydran ships. The fleet of Major-Admiral Roxanna Vulpes if I recall correctly. The survivors of this force became stranded (Federation & Empire "homeless ships") after the success of the Federation's "Operation Wedge" in Y178. The remnants of this force were eventually attached to Kumerian's Red Fleet in Y182 (tentatively identified at that time as a FireHawk, SparrowHawk-A, SparrowHawk-C, SkyHawk-A, and a rump fast patrol ship flotilla of two Centurions and one Centurion-S, the force might have been larger prior to Y182 but attrition and lack of spare parts had reduced it), and conducted a separate operation [and thus were not present at the "Cavalry Charge" (SH11.0), but might have replaced the Lyran force with the Lyrans sent on the separate operation]. Admiral Vulpes was killed in action sometime before Y182, and the remainder of the task force was commanded by Pente-Admiral Remus Maximus at the time of operation cavalry.

Note: The Romulan Admiral ranks above are at best a guess on my part, and Remus Maximus might have arrived as a Pente-Admiral and been promoted to Major-Admiral after the death of Vulpes for "political reasons" (i.e., more rank might have more diplomatic pull in getting support for his ships and other negotiations with the Klingons) even though Vulpes's surviving ships would not have justified the rank.

By Andrew Granger (Captaincf) on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 06:42 am: Edit

I remember reading about this in one of the time lines, but I cannot find it on the universe timeline or the histroy of the general war document. Would you happen to remember when was supposed to have taken place?

By Andrew Granger (Captaincf) on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Wow, I really cannot find this anymore.

By Andrew Granger (Captaincf) on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 05:14 pm: Edit

I know this is going to sound odd, but is it just me or is Cheyenne over-fightered?

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 05:32 pm: Edit

It's Just you

[Then again I'm biased, I think the Hydrans don't have enough fighters ]

By Andrew Granger (Captaincf) on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 05:39 pm: Edit

If you look at the three NCA designs, the Mohawk has seven fighters and a fusion armament, like the Ranger, the Iriqouis has two fighters and hellbores. The Cheyenne, with a mixed armament should be fine with just 4 fighters.
I am not sure it has the power to continue fighting and reload all the fighters.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar2) on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 05:53 pm: Edit

AG, don't forget that all the fusion fighters have a second reload waiting for them already...

By Andrew Granger (Captaincf) on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 05:58 pm: Edit

Yes, but only at WS-III. Any earlier, the Cheyenne is going to be slowing down quite a bit.