My first question is, why the heck are you playing a frigate duel on four maps?

The DDF is a powerful little ship, plasma-wise. But it's fairly poor in all other aspects. Only 19 power means that it can't charge torps and phasers at the same time. So one idea is to draw out the plasma with high-speed plinking passes and attack when he's power-poor. He also has weak #3-#5 shields - menium-range disruptor plinking would add up if you could hit the same shield.

So, hold the SP, make multiple medium-speed runs for range 15 disruptor shots. Or dip in closer to draw out the plasma and run it out. When he's weak and empty, launch the SP and run him down.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 09:58 pm: Edit

Is there a specific version of the tactics thread anywhere devoted to Klingon vs Frax?

It would seem to be a natural for the aspiring Klink captain...

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 07:35 pm: Edit

No. It would suggest that there be one for each of the combinations of races, ie about 200 (and that's just alpha). Clearly, there are not.

Here would seem a good place.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Tactical discussion.

You are commander of an E4 in Y150. You have been ordered to attack a Hydran convoy just across the border. The convoy consists of 2 F-S, 1 F-L, and is escorted by a Hunter frigate.

You have very little time before reinforcements arrive from a nearby base. How do you proceed?

In SFB terms, the convoy sets up within 5 hexes of 2215, facing D, speed 8, WS-1. Your ship enters from any map edge, speed any, WS-3. You have 10 turns; on the 11th turn reinforcements arrive and will destroy you if you are still on the map.

The map is floating; use the standard victory conditions.

Discuss!

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 10:35 pm: Edit

Seems pretty tough. The Hunter is a match for the E4 as it is; when the freighters and all the shuttles are added in, the convoy outguns the Klingon significantly, especially at close range.

The E4 has only R-15 disruptors (I think they are R-15, R-10 would make it impossible) but at R-15 none of the Hydran weapons are effective. You can stand off, plink away at one of the small freighters with disruptors, and hope to score internals by turn 3 or 4. You only have eight drone spaces on the ship, and all drones are slow, but you might be able to use a scatterpack to deter the Hydran from getting close (thereby giving you time to slip in behind the convoy and shoot at the freighters from behind). Your "advantage" is that your drones are about the same speed as the convoy, so they will just kind of hang around in no man's land for three turns as a deterrent, rather than actually getting close enough to hit anybody.

You can not defeat the convoy. Your only hope is to disable a small freighter and that the convoy will leave it behind instead of circling the wagons.

Barring a special rule that the convoy has to keep moving at best speed, the convoy player does not really have to do anything. Just park the freighters, deploy the shuttles for drone defense and/or deterrent, and have the Hunter hang around, and not do anything dumb. The E4 does not have enough firepower to destroy any of the ships in only ten turns.

EW rules make things even worse, as they prolong the battle. With EW in effect, you will have to get pretty lucky to even hope to score any internals, even on the small freighters.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 10:48 pm: Edit

So getting to R5 with OL disruptors and using speed changes to keep away from the Hunter isn't an option?

Also, don't forget about T-bombs....can be useful to crack a starcastling convoy....or for killing their shuttle's....

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 11:50 pm: Edit

T-bombs don't work if everyone parks. The large freighter could sweep a T-bomb, anyway (it has a tractor and two phasers).

The E4 has only 15 power plus 1 battery. He'll devote 2.5 to housekeeping, leaving him with 13.5, and if he spends 8 on disruptors, that leaves only 5.5 for movement (if we assume phasers don't need to be charged). So that's 16 hexes of movement. It goes up to 22 hexes if only one disruptor is overloaded.

The Hunter meanwhile only needs to arm standard fusions (in 150 they can't be held) as he can kill the E4 just fine at R2 with standard fusions. This will take 4 of his 15+1 power; he also spends 2.5 on housekeeping, leaving him with 9.5 for movement. He can go 28 (but it will probably be plotted as 26/30).

The Klingon is going to lose six (or twelve with 2 OLs) hexes from being slower plus at least two more getting turned around after his strike. Even if the Klingon manages a perfect plot where he goes 30 the whole time after his OL strike, he's going to have nothing to shoot at the Hydran except, maybe, two phaser-2's (slow drones will just not be a factor at these speeds). This won't cause internals, and the Hydran can just keep coming. The Klingon can't shoot again without turning around, and turning around results in a R0 overrun by the Hydran, which makes the Klingon exceptionally dead. If the Klingon just keeps going, using his rear firing phasers to whittle away at the Hydran, in perhaps three turns he'll be far enough from the freighters that they can disengage by separation.

It is pretty tough to take two ships which are approximately evenly matched, give one of them an extra objective, give the other one extra firepower, and expect good results.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 03:05 am: Edit

The E4 will get swanked if they come to grips with the hunter with the convoy firing in support. Even if the fusions never fire.

1) The Hunter alone should be able to KILL the E4.

2) The convoy freighters have signifigant firepower at range 8.

Mikes solution:

The E4 needs to come in and make a single battlepass while burning his battery reserve.

Come to make range for your narrow salvoed disruptors. Shoot at the closest thing with sheilds you can crack with a single complete volley. Fire a narrow salvo with all your phasers when you have everything in arc at the same time vs the same shield (don't play "I have to do it over 2 impulses," just hit one shield with everything in a pair of narrow salvoes even if its just in one impulse). IF the disr hit and you roll decently with the phasers you probably get an internal of two. 2 disr at range 8= 8 damage (???), plus 4 P2 for 12 (roll a 1), 8 (roll a 2) or 4 (roll a 3 or 4) and tah dah! The small freighters have how many shield boxes? The large freighter? The hunter?

If the hunter comes out and closes aggressively showing their number one (IIRC it's their best, hit it and play the run while shooting P2 through the "strange Klingon Phaser arcs under the arse" game)

Then leave if Hydran pursues using all power to running.

I don't have the annexes, so roughly:
E4 BPV is what, about 50?
Hunter at the same with freighters for another 50? So you are WAY out BPV'ed. So if you can get some internals and get away you win handily...

The drones are a non issue except to keep the Hydran a bit paranoid about a SP and perhaps some type 4s making a zero energy anchor attack.

IIRC there is actually a fiction piece somewhere that has a E4 vs Hydran POL duel where the Klingon gets his and disengages when he gets his shield cracked... Maybe a "can you give me an example of speed changes?" CL 22???

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:15 am: Edit

The small freighters have five box shields, the large freighters have a little more (I think eight?) and the Hunter has 17 boxes in front or 12 on the #2/#6. If the Klingon gets to R15 he can score a couple of points on a small freighter with good dice (unless he overloads the disruptors, getting to R8 only matters a little as disruptors are the same and P2s are still pretty bad). The trouble is that he really only gets that R15 shot once, and it's not going to do enough damage to matter, unless the Hydran is under some restriction that prevents him from properly defending himself.

The thing about the Klingon running and firing out its rear shield is that the E4 barely has rear shields (the #4 is only five boxes, the #3/#5 seven). The Hydran can only KILL the E4 at R2 or less, but it does have phasers and it doesn't take much to get through an early Klingon rear shield. It could even fire the fusions in the 3-10 bracket if the Klingon turns a rear shield; the gatling still provides significant deterrent power. (I would probably arm only one fusion as the Hydran and fire the second one from batteries if I got a good shot. Otherwise, arm the other one on the next turn while the first is cooling).

Overall the Hunter may be very slightly better than the unrefitted E4, but it's not that big of a difference. The Hunter has more fluff, an extra battery, stronger rear shields, and a ph-g; the E4 has a stronger front shield, an extra ph-2, and a drone rack (which enables a scatter-pack). I would also consider the E4's disruptors to be superior to the Hunter's fusion beams. The superior captain will win a duel between the two ships, but the E4 is just not capable of winning the scenario as specified given all the extra firepower provided by the freighters.

Now, if the scenario had the E4 alone against the freighters for a few turns and then the Hunter arrives after a while, that might be a different story.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 11:03 am: Edit

1) P2 at range 8 aren't that bad. Just not all that great. I think you HAVE to go for the narrow salvo crap shoot.

By the way, the P2 at range 8 do the same damage as the disr per point of power.

3+2+1+1+0+0= 7 divind by 6 = 1 and a fraction damage per power spent. Disr do 4 damage for 2 power and only hit half the time? is 1 damage per power...

2) My point is that the Klingon can't risk closing to short range. So he should close just enough to do SOME damage and then leave before he gets zorked. ie a low speed accelerating at the point where he fires and then runs. The next turn he either runs flat out for disengagemetn speed (the hydran chases) or circles back to do over (the hydran doesn't try to chase).

3) the scatter pack is useless unless you can anchor the Hydran. Drones are too slow back then. Even a darn freighter can juke speed 8 drones.

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 11:10 am: Edit

Standard Victory conditions? So if I recall correctly I get 1 VP for every point I'm out BPV'ed by? And I give up 1/4th of my BPV for disengaging.

Don't arm anything, don't take any commander's options. Run away at full speed. Disengage. Declare victory. Alternately wait for the Hydrans to deploy some shuttles, and kill one or two with long range fire, they're 1 VP each (economic BPV of 1), that let's me pad my margin.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Narrow salvo is an optional rule, you can't rely on it for a tactic.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 03:10 pm: Edit

So you make a battle pass and fire the disr & phasers (and do 4 phaser average & 4 disr damage average 1 hit).

Then peel off and refresh your batteries and capacitors and try again. The Hydran can make coming back to the freighters impossible by running them away while interposing the Frigate.

I don't see the Klingon succeeding without a narrow disr salvo given the ability of the freighters to disengage by distance while the Hunter presses you for a close range pass. The Hunter, IIRC has a #1 strong enough to take a range 1 salvo with little internals (if any) and will gut you at that range.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 03:53 pm: Edit

Narrow salvo is such a logical capability I don't know why it's optional.

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Narrow Salvos are not optional. E1.6.

True I guess that the standard victory conditions allow you to score points for BPV difference. You could simply disengage and "win on points" but the actual scenario objective is to attack the convoy, which disengaging doesn't accomplish. Modified victory conditions are probably what was meant.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 04:53 pm: Edit

Durrr, that's right. It's an advanced rule.

I was dupped.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 06:17 pm: Edit

True, been awhile. Use MODIFIED Victory Conditions.

As has been pointed out, this is a very tough mission for an E4. Assume the Hunter doesn't arrive until turn 3. How does this change things?

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 08:31 pm: Edit

With modified VC & 3 turns?

Hunter closes at max and DISR unarmed initially.

Late Turn 1. early turn 2 goes to range 0 for a zero energy anchor on the closest freighter (a pair of Type IV or V drones and then off chasing the next freighter. If it can get to range 8 of it it hits it with as many phasers as possible and a disr (off battery). This should cripple it late turn 2 or ealry turn 3.

The third freighter gets chased at speed 31. Goal is 2 type VI or V drones with any phasers available.

Then you look and see if you can juke the Hunter.

The Hydran has a BIG decision, scatter the freighters (1 towards the Hunter entry hex and the other 2 as far away as possible) or to stay together.

the problem with staying together is that they do NOT have enough firepower to hunt the E4 basically and still defend vs drones. the E4 will gladly take the freighters fire if he can get all 3 close enough to use a scatter (3 heavy drones). And if they are together he doesn't have to use so much power to chase (ie more pahser and Disr fire)...

3 turns should mean the E4 kills or cripples 2 and maybe 3 freighters and then runs from the Hunter.

Vs the E4 the hunter is a monster.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Let's focus on the frigate duel. Assume no convoy, Hunter vs E4, both sides WS-3 and speed max. Hydran tactics are simple (close and hose), how does an E4 captain beat the Hydran?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 10:17 pm: Edit

I've been doing SFB wrong so long! Thanks for clearing up narrow salvo.

By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Monday, April 25, 2011 - 12:48 am: Edit

The confusion can arise because narrow salvos not allowed in tournaments.

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Monday, April 25, 2011 - 01:28 am: Edit

It takes about 50 damage to destroy a small freighter and about 90-100 to destroy a large one. Crippling is easy (just destroy the engines with mizia shots) and allows you to rack up victory points, but probably doesn't do much for the "real" situation, as the damaged cargo can be picked up by another freighter module or a tug and the damaged module abandoned or towed away.

The E4 simply lacks the firepower to destroy the convoy in only three turns.

If the convoy were not going to defend itself from drones, you could use a scatterpack and destroy a freighter with it. As it is, you'll have to encourage the freighters to shoot you so the drones can hit, use the scatterpack to tie up the convoy's fire (preserving your ship, or buying an extra turn), or simply hold it as a threat.

At close range (let's say 2), the E4 can do about 30 points of damage per turn (discounting drones). In two turns he can destroy one freighter, or cripple two, or maybe cripple two and damage a third (depends on how lucky he is at hitting engines).

On the third turn it is time to leave as the Hunter has arrived and the E4 will likely have sustained at least some damage from the freighters.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, April 25, 2011 - 04:35 am: Edit

If you go to range 2, you might as well go to range 1, where you can threaten a drone hit on the right impulse.

If you can tractor a small freighter you can probably kill it with your scatterpack alone.

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Monday, April 25, 2011 - 04:57 am: Edit

Yeah, against the freighters there is not THAT much difference between R2 and R1, I guess it matters if you overloaded your disruptors or not (OLs favor the closer range since they gain 2 points of damage each instead of 1, which makes it a wash with standards vs. the improvement of P3s).

The trouble, again, is the shuttles and mutual supporting fire. The freighters and their attendant shuttles will have six P3s and a P2 available, which can kill, on average, five of your seven drones (six in the pack and one in the rack). This would be worth 24 or perhaps 36 damage to one freighter. (You could get lucky and do 48 or 60, or unlucky and do none). If they don't launch the shuttles, you will have to anchor to prevent a weasel, but anchoring risks having your SP shuttle destroyed due to the close range. You could launch it far, then run in and anchor, but then you have the problem that speed 8 drones may arrive on the wrong turn, forcing you into an expensive and firepower-draining tractor auction (against the large freighter, which has 11+1 power). It is a complicated problem.

You have only eight spaces of drones on board, so if your rack drone is a type-IV, you'll be totally out of ammunition after the scatterpack is used. Which is fine, because your drones won't be any use once the Hydran arrives.

It depends somewhat on the starting distance and the weapons status of the convoy. If they don't have their phasers energized and you start fairly close and you are at WS-2 or 3, you could blow one up with a scatterpack before they have anything to fire at all, other than shuttle P3s. (You would obviously hit the large freighter with the scatterpack in this case).

If the freighters are at WS-2 or 3 themselves, you are at risk of the high comedy of getting to R0 or R1 and taking a suicide shuttle or two in the face.

By Steven J. Hecker (Stevehecker) on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Been while since I have ran a Klingon Squadron.

Fed vs Kling. Y177. No ECM. 1-Map, fixed.

DW, DW, DW, DWC vs F5W, F5W, F5W, FWL.

No K-refits on the F5W but they do have UIMs.