I think panel space/ batteries was one of the most painful things to do in the Andro (and why i least want to play the ship again). It is so difficult to arrange the proper dump with 20 capacity. If you have taken 60 damage to the front panels you can not dump, 24 goes to the rear and get nothing.

I am a quick player most of the time when I play and I slowed the game down terribly trying to figure out the dump. I was very thankful that there wer no adjudications at Origins this year, because I am not sure I could have proven my power situation.

As far as Pete's game goes, I am not sure why the shark plotted speed 14 when the andro is against the wall and unable to displace. I would normally charge in with phasers to hammer him, and try to use disruptors/phasers on impulse 1 of turn 4. Even if the shark has to leave batts light, it should have enough power to move 26 and power some phasers. Against passive galctics, I found I could win, it was just frustrating and took time. Against aggresive galactics i found myself in trouble.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Bill wrote:
>>As far as Pete's game goes, I am not sure why the shark plotted speed 14 when the andro is against the wall and unable to displace.>>

I suspect it was because he had to reload phasers and batteries and had no #1 shield so aggressive chasing was likely to get him killed. The Andro actually had a reasonable amount of room to run at the point. It made sense at the time :-)

-Peter

By Kerry E Mullan (Nomad17) on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 08:19 am: Edit

Yeah for the game in question.


The Andro itself was within 5 of the wall but he was at R12 to the WBS. As the WBS was 3 or so hexes "above" the andro it was like 15 to the wall.

I could have easily just run up but against an andro who had me on spd, manueverability, and I had a down shield it would have allowed me to get a R5 or less shot on his rears as he would just turn in. So I could get the strike if I accepted the phaser hose, H&R, most likely on my #1(the whole he's moving 30 I'm not so he can move after I, as well as move on 2 imps when I skip a move).

Even if my phaser strike hits on 35 point rears fills them again, but the cost seemed to much. Evidently the 4 std disr strategy blew chunks as well, but it limited my internals back from him.

Not doing so meant I did very little to him thuogh so it may have been a better strategy to take the pain to deliver some back.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Game 4

Peter Bakija (Andro +2 APR) vs Mike Johnson (RFH)

T1: Andro goes 16/30. Romulan goes 14 all turn. Ships close, Romulan launches an enveloper at about R10. Andro turns in, centerlines the Romulan at R5, 2 hexes from the plasma. Not seeing a better shot, the Andro announces displacement and fires 2xTRL/8xP2. TRLs roll bad, P2s roll up, I do 21 damage to the Romulan's #6 and displace away successfully. Plasma turns to follow. We end the turn at about R8.

T2: Andro goes 21/31/16. Romulan goes 14/27. Andro runs from the enveloper, hoping to eat it a bit for power, but the torp is maneuvered to avoid this. Andro runs around the edge of the map, trying to avoid the Romulan, who holds fire. At some point, the Andro transports a T-bomb, which does 10 damage to the Romulan's #2. Around impulse 29 or so, the Andro can't avoid R3, so I turn to face the Rom at R3, my #6 facing to his #1. I fire 6xP2 for 22 damage to his #1. He keeps holding fire. I slip away as best I can. Impulse 31, he launches an enveloper. Impulse 32, he turns so that he will be at R1 unless I HET, so I am forced to HET away to R2, my rear panels to his #1/#2 spine. Plasma ends at R2. Romulan holds fire (he is trying to starve me out of power).

T3: Andro goes 30/21/16. Romulan stops. Impulse 1, the Romulan tractors the Andro, hoping for a failed dis-dev. Andro announces displacement. Romulan holds fire. Andro successfully displaces away and runs off. Eventually, the Andro slows down and maneuvers to take the enveloper for 20 damage. I mostly empty the batteries to refill the phaser capacitors, and at about R22 from the Romulan, I drop my panels and get 16 power to batteries. He fires 4xP1, scoring 1 internal (a warp). We end the turn at about R23.

T4: Andro goes 16/30. Romulan goes 0/-10. Impulse 1, I put up panels, he cloaks. I close in on him as he tacs some. I use a few batteries to accelerate to 30 eight impulses sooner then planned to get an overrun. I close in, he speeds up to -10. Near the end of the turn, I get a R0 shot on his 9 box #6, firing both TRLs, rolling ok on the cloak chart, and do 1 internal (hull), and speed off, ending the turn at R5, my #4 facing his #3.

We call it at this point, as it is late and the game would likely go for a while at this point, but the Romulan has a down #6, 8 box #1, and 20 box #2, where the Andro has a few degradation, a missing warp, and mostly full batteries.

Post game, we discussed that if he had just kept pressing me on T3, he probably would have run me out of power as well as shooting up my rear panels pretty well (4xP1, 2xP3, F bolt on impulse 1 before I displace) as I'm forced to run from an enveloper for the rest of the turn.

The extra 2 power certainly helped the Andro in this game, but it was far from a walk in the park for the Andro.

-Peter

By Paul Scott (The_Rock) on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 01:49 am: Edit

The T3 maneuver by the Rom had a 100% chance of failure. The Displacement Device NEVER fails on self-displacement. It ALWAYS succeeds and thus ALWAYS breaks tractor. The only thing that can fail is control of where you displace.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:31 am: Edit

Ah, true. Keep in mind that Mike is just getting back into SFB after a long hiatus, and was gamely helping out for fun.

-Peter

By Mike Johnson (Akira) on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 11:38 am: Edit

Peter, thanks for the fun game last night. It was neat to help with the playtesting! And thanks also for allowing a "mulligan" or two as my SFB rules knowledge slowly returns to me.

You hit it on the head that my strategy was to starve you for power for a few turns before attempting a serious engagement, and I was actually unhappy that the EPT hit you with only 20 damage on turn three as it negated all my hard work thus far!

In retrospect I definitely agree that your recommendation of firing up your rear panels with phasers and f-bolts at the end of turn 2 or start of turn 3 would have been the best plan. I had range 2 on the rear panels and didn't exploit it- my bad for continuing to pursue a strategy when circumstances called for different action.

Paul's comment about the DD is well received- I didn't realize failing the roll would only affect the direction. Though it did achieve the goal of separating use of the device from future alpha strikes, which was the other advantage I hoped to gain.

Andros are tough for big plasma, and though I haven't played a great deal recently, the extra two power didn't seem to unbalance things. I was surprised at how close you needed to get to do significant damage- the TRLs are good weapons but not great, same with the P2s. My memories of fighting against Andros years ago are very painful ones :-)

-Mike Johnson

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Game 5
Bakija (Andro) vs Andy Koch (Klingon)

T1: Andro goes 16/30 (27 hexes; break even), Klingon goes 15/28 right at the end of the turn. Klingon launches the SP early and drifts to his right. Andro turns in and gets in front of the drones. Late in the turn, the Andro sideslips into R3 centerline of the Klingon's #6, announces displacement, fires 2xTRL, 8xP2, rolls up (maximum damage with the TRLs, up a couple points on the P2s). Finds about 11 rienforcement, does 8 internals (2 power, a P3). Rolls displacement and fails. Instead HETs away from the Klingon and the SP drones, ending the turn at R4 from the Klingon and 1 from the drones. Klingon doesn't shoot anything all turn.

T2: Andro goes 31 all turn, reloads, and tries to empty batteries. Klingon goes 21/15/10, overloading all the disruptors. Impulse 1, Klingon shoots the Andro's rear panels, hits with all 4 OLs, does 8 internals, hits a TRL and a PA panel. Andro flies away. Klingon shoots a few more phasers into the full panels of the retreating Andro, hitting a couple P2s and another rear panel. Andro gets out to R15 or so, drops panels, absorbs a bunch of power. Ships end about 20 hexes apart, Andro has mostly full batteries and mostly empty panels (about 3 power in the rears at the end of the turn).

T3: Andro goes 16/30; Klingon goes 15 all turn. Andro comes in, shoots the Klingon on the #1 at R3 with a TRL and 6xP2, finds more reinforcement, knocks it down to about 12 boxes, and displaces away. Klingon again holds fire. Klingon pursues, Andro has to do a second HET to avoid R8 on the rear panels (staying at R9), doesn't break down. Klingon launches 2 fast drones. Ships end at about R10.

T4: Andro is stuck in the corner, and moves 15/28. Klingon goes 21. Andro shoots down the drones and turns in to avoid R8 on the 2 box rear panels (one of which is repaired at at the end of T4), but the Klingon gets R4 on the rear panels anyway. Klingon shoots, hits well, does another 25 internals or so, blowing off the other TRL and the disdev. Andro resigns.

Assessment: 2 extra APR don't help when you fail a dis dev.

-Peter

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 05:47 pm: Edit

It's been a while and I was behind so, I'm going to declare my game with Bane over and Bane is the winner.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 05:51 pm: Edit

I'm not sure if this is the proper thread for this.

The Andy seems to have major problems with RPS issues and BP.

The DD already uses special tourney rules... so...

What if the DD range was reduced from 6 to 2?

Would that significantly weaken it versus BP compared to DF?

The idea is that if the Andy was made stronger, but than changes were made to selectively weaken it against BP it might reduce some of the RPS issues.

So, the question is would reducing the DD range have more of an effect reducing the andy versus BP as oppossed to other ships.

The DD would still be capable of breaking tractor.

By Glenn Hoepfner (Ikabar) on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 09:10 pm: Edit

I feel the displacement device modification you are suggesting is too much. One of the key elements of the DD is to displace out of immediate danger. A displace of only two may be effective for tractor evasion, but it seriously hampers other tactical implications that are normally natural (and essential) to the way the Andro fights.
We are talking about a serious reduction (12 from non-tourny to 2) in its ability to combat its opponents.
As much as your input is valued (and greatly so, it is), I must answer your question with "absolutely! but not in the right direction"
Of course, this is one man's opinion, and one without weight.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 02:16 pm: Edit

I know this is self serving... but,

Brian just played 3 games with Andromedan +2APR playtest ship.

I would very much like to read those reports...

Especially before playing him in my upcoming WL game Thursday...

By Robert Grey (Tugger) on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 09:04 pm: Edit

I gave the 3 trl krait a spin, and had fun.
I figured out how to take damage in it all right, but the 'energy phase' part of the Damage Allocation spreadsheet was confusing. Can anyone help explain it for me?

Thanks!

By Jacob Karpel (Psybomb) on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 07:53 am: Edit

Revisiting an old, old topic...

I had a lot of spare time today, and part of what I was doing was a quick doodle of the potential Andromedan PF upcoming in C3A. However, as I was doing this my mind drifted here. Since rules are modified for the Andro anyway...

Simple solution to many of the RPS issues. State that this Andromedan may not drop his shields. His options are to have Normal or Reinforced. Stupid panel tricks are present still, but get a lot less dumb when you're only playing with the difference between 6 and 10. Effectively, the only way power is going to leave the panels is through Dissipation and the 10% absorb. Seems a hair heavy-handed, but thinking about it this will not actually affect normal play as intended and still allows it to clear its shields much faster than a Galactic could. Instead of juggling shields to dump to batteries, it would just be changing Overload states to get power into your rear shields for faster dissipation.

Of course, the Andromedan ship would have to be a hair tougher and/or more capable on its own merits to make up for this. Definitely another battery, you don't need to worry so much about massive panel dumps straight into power due to them being required to stay up. Besides that, it wouldn't take too much of a nudge northward, just up-gun it a bit so that the damage out is enough to race degredation (I'm a fan of 3x TRL arrangements myself).

Someone please shoot me down if this is unworkable, but I believe that it might just be the key to solving this age-old problem.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 08:20 pm: Edit

Should we get a separate thread for the new andro playtest Krait?

Any case I was looking it over tonight... it only has 28 + 10 power...

With 4 TRL that is incredibly light on power.

Any chance of giving it more power... I think it needs at least 32 power.. maybe more...

28 power but needs...

1 FC
1 LS
8 PA reinforced
8 TRL
1 DD hold

That leaves 9 + 10 power for turn 1... not even enough power for speed 31 all turn... Than the batts are empty.

Even going slow on turn 1 your gonna burn batts.

Than turn 2 you will be slow.

32 base power may not be enough... maybe trade two of the TRLs for a single TRH... That would save one point of power per turn and it would still have three heavy weapons.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - 10:41 am: Edit

Barry Kirk:

I need some time to talk with Paul Franz about a proposal from Council of Five Nations, if Paul agrees (does not immediately spot a major problem that I have missed), a new Krait for playtest will be posted.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - 10:43 am: Edit

Barry Kirk:

I need some time to talk with Paul Franz about a proposal from Council of Five Nations, if Paul agrees (does not immediately spot a major problem that I have missed), a new Krait for playtest will be posted.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Excellent.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 05:18 pm: Edit

The new Krait is up in SFBOL. I posted about it in the tournament ship changes thread (short version: 2xTRH, 3 batteries, less hull). Let's playtest it to death.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Right there with you Peter... How about next week?

Also need to playtest the Alunda.

By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 03:51 pm: Edit

I will be happy to play the andro or play against it. I will make sure I am online a couple of nights next week.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 11:48 am: Edit

Playtest Report 1 of New Andro

Peter Bakija (AND) vs Chris Proper (LYR)

Andro loses.

T1: I plot speed 16 till impulse 19 or so and then 31, roll both TRHs, hold the dis dev, put panels at standard, and have enough reserve warp for a HET. This uses 1 net battery power. Chris goes 16 till 19, 31 till 27, then 26 and has at least 3xOL disruptors. We move up the map and speed up to 31. Chris turns left, so I also turn left to try and get a shot on a rear shield. He raises his ESGs at R3 full power. We get to R4, me out of his FA. Next impulse, he can't turn due to still being 31 and having an unsatisfied turn mode, so he slips towards me, hitting my front panels for the full 30 ESG damage. I use a HET to turn into R2 off his his #3 shield. I announce displacement, blast him with 2xTRH and 4xP2, he fires back with 2xP1 and 2xP3. I take 11 more damage to my PAs (forcing me to raise them to reinforced), I roll box cars with my TRHs, but roll well on the P2s and do 47 damage. Chris takes 23 in losing a few phasers, a disruptor, an ESG, and 7 or 8 power. I successfully displace and jump 6 hexes behind him. Next impulse, Chris slows to 26 and HETs to chase me into the corner when he can. He takes a R7 shot on my rear panels with 3xOL and 7xP1, hits with 2 disruptors and rolls hot on the phasers, doing 30 to my rear panels, scoring a leak point. I run a few more impulse and we end the turn at about R6, Chris on my rear panels. I radiate and absorb some energy, clearing up my panels a bit.

T2: It looks as if Chris will be able to chase me into the corner and blast my rear panels as I can't displace, can't move real fast due to minimized power (only 3 batteries total), and no where to go. I plan on HETing and taking his shot on my stronger fronts and hopefully get away to try and clear them out some. I plot speed 31 till 10, 16 till the end of the turn, recharge my phasers, TRHs, and DisDev, pay for a HET, pay for a transporter, and keep my panels at reinforced. This uses almost all of my battery power, so my batteries are empty except for a fraction of power (which might help me clear panels later. Maybe.) Chris moves 29 for a few impulse, 16/14 the rest of the turn, rearms his batteries and phasers. Impulse 2, I HET at him and don't break down. We end up at R0 on impulse 4 which, sadly, is when all his guns cycle. I shoot down his #1 and do 4 or 5 in with my 6xP2s. He blasts through my front panels with 7xP2 and an OL disruptor. I take about 24 in, losing all my fluff, all three batteries, a TRH, and 2xP2. I beam out a t-bomb, trying to get one of his down shields, but that doesn't work. I'm probably dead here, but we play out the turn to see what happens. We just separate and Chris comes around to chase me into a corner again, ending the turn at about R14. I radiate a point of power from each panel.

T3: We do EA. Chris can move 14 all turn, rearm his phasers and batteries. I have 22 total power and no batteries. After spending 8 to keep my panels at reinforced (which I am compelled to do, as otherwise I take 20 some odd internals) and 2 to turn on my ship, I can rearm my 4 phasers, rearm my DisDev, and move about speed 7. We figure that Chris will find me and kill me before I can fix 2 batteries and maybe do something about my panel situation, as I'm kinda stuck against the edge of the map. Lyran wins.

So the new version of the Andro seems, on first view, reasonable. With only 3 batteries, it runs out of power quickly, and with only 8 points of hull/cargo, the batteries will get shot off shortly after it starts taking internals. This was not, probably, the best example of Andro play (I probably should have not HET into the Lyran on T2 and took my chances with a R4 or R5 phaser shot on my mostly full rear panels instead), but still, if the Andro takes 20 some odd internals, the batteries are gone, and when the batteries are gone, the Andro is hosed. Which is all very good, for my money. More playtesting to follow in the near future. I'll e-mail this to Steve Petrick as well.

As a note for Paul F: The Andro SSD took a point of damage on the Hangar box (on a 7? It might have been a cargo hit or something--I wasn't paying close attention). I don't know that that is supposed to happen.

By Chris Proper (Duke) on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Turn 1 I only fired 8 ph-1, not 9. It just seemed like more because the dice were awesome. If the TRHs don't do minimum damage I lose the ablity to HET from battery and never get a shot.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Yeah, HETing into the ESGs seemed like a reasonable plan to get a R2 shot on your #3, even if it seemed likely that you were gonna be able to HET soon (as it was, like, impulse 26, and it was very likely you were going to drop to 26 on impulse 27. Which you did.) If the TRHs roll well, I do 40+14 from P2s, which is 54 or 30 in, give or take, which hits some batteries. Although you could have certainly seen this coming and used the batteries to pay for the HET an impulse or two earlier.

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 05:36 pm: Edit

I saw that game, and I was rooting for the Lyran. Both because it was a Lyran, and because I like Chris better than Peter. Just kidding. The Andro could have easily won I think, but for a maybe some sub optimal tactics, and some bad die rolling. But so far that puts the Andro into the same category as every other Tourney ship. Good so far.

The only thing that bothers me some is that it seems to have a really, really hard time clearing panels, and might lose it's batts a tad early.