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	Archive through January 19, 2012	25		01/21 04:18pm

Because the rules for the launcher say that all shots must be at the same target and in the same impulse if fired outside range 3. It was in my post.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 03:18 pm: Edit

@Mike:
I agree, the point of the submission was to get this kind of effect without grunt-loads of markers on the board. My attempt was to model it with existing technology and a little tweak to the launcher. I whole-heartedly agree that the markers my idea produces is rather excessive. With the exception that those drones launched on the same impulse (and later impulses, if the fast drones historically haven't been figured out yet) can all be grouped into the same marker.

I don't have a good way to get around the markers issue, if using regular type-VIs. But I think type-VIs are the best solution.

By Michael Bennett (Mike) on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 10:02 pm: Edit

This reminds me of the missile swarms the Romulan ship from the future had in the reboot ST movie.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, January 21, 2012 - 04:14 pm: Edit

@Michael Bennett - that is exactly what I thought when I first read it, too. Let's go pound on the USS Kelvin with these bad boys...

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, January 21, 2012 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Why not have the reloads be a big preloaded module with all submunitions prepacked? The module could take two turns to arm...

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 02:41 pm: Edit

You can limit the marker insanity by putting an upper limit in the number of independent targets you can launch at once.

In addition, a little handwavium that disallows their control to be transferred immediately limits the number of drones that can be launched.

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Type VI's are self guiding. But, to repeat my full proposal (parts of my first post referenced the earlier multiple missile swarm of 20 one point drones proposal):

Each box holds 8 Type IV fast drones. Drones may be launched once per turn, not within 8 impulses of any other launch. Any number of drones may be launched at the same time from 1 to all 8. If the target is within warp seeker guidance range then all launched drones are self guided. If any target is more than 3 hexes away then all drones must target that unit and all drones are represented by a single marker and all follow the same course.

This does not lead to marker proliferation except when using the launcher defensively against drones or shuttles/fighters at point blank range, in which case most drones will be on the map for a very short time.

Note that the restrictions are restrictions on the LAUNCHER, not the drones, which means that we can simplify the rules by using the existing rules for Type-VI drones.

Marker proliferation comes from letting the drones be launched as individuals, so don't do that!

By Jack Bohn (Jackbohn) on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 06:03 pm: Edit

One thing I'd fudged with micromissile, but which has to be addressed with the defined Type VIs is drone control. If launched outside range 8 the ship will need double drone control for one launncher, triple (?!) for two--which leaves space for regular drones, suicide shuttle, or scatterpack.

Should the loading be taken down to six? That still soaks up a lot of the target's weapons with a two damage-point charge for every weapon you don't fire at the swarm.

By Mike Kenyon (Mikek) on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 07:06 pm: Edit

On a Kzinti, this is nasty. I launched 12 drones at R8, 4 are Type IV, you know the rest are Type VI. Good luck with the guessing game.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 07:17 pm: Edit

Micro Missiles would have to have a very limited range. Type VIs have a range of 8 hexes IIRC. These things couldn't do better than that and would probably do worse.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 09:23 pm: Edit

@Mike:
Don't you know what launchers the drones came out of? Particularly when not playing Tac Intel?

By Mike Kenyon (Mikek) on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 12:13 am: Edit

Matthew, I thought about that after I posted. I had left the computer or I would have corrected. Substitute Kzinti for Klingon. IIRC their launchers are in the shuttle bay and not determable. As with many things, that's a little confused in my mind when not using D17.

By Jack Bohn (Jackbohn) on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 11:04 am: Edit

The intent (which should have an explicit rule) was that only drones from the swarm launcher are part of the swarm. There should be an explicit rule that the launcher only takes Type VI. What I thought was explicit, but should be made clearer, is that all drones launched by the swarm launcher (at least outside a "self-defence zone" arbitrarily set at 3 hexes) must have a single target, follow a single path to the target, and be represented by a single counter. Although you do provide a simple rule for a "first contact" scenario where the Galactic ship doesn't yet realize its sensor readings mean "swarm," and sees a large number of drones. That is, if the alien ship has other drones, and a way to conceal which launched what.

As to range; unless I've been playing wrong, VI has an endurance of 1 Turn, which is a range of 8 hexes if slow, 20 or 32 at upgraded speeds.

By Ken Humpherys (Pmthecat) on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 11:19 am: Edit

Actually Type VI drones have a endurance of 12 hexes no matter what speed. (FD2.55)
They can be launched like other drones at targets up to 35 hexes away (except from ADD's) but still only move 12 hexes before they die.

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Unless the swarm launcher is in the shuttle bay (not likely) the swarm is clearly identifiable as to launcher.

Additionally, the single marker with 8 drones is the one made of type-VI's, this shouldn't be hard to tell apart from the type IV's where each drone has its own marker! Note again, the proposal has from post one where it was micro missiles had the restriction that at more than range 3 the drones MUST be a single marker swarm. I never removed that restriction in any of my posts dealing with using type VI's and explicitely repeated it yesterday when I summarized the proposal.

I'm tempted to add that even inside range 3 all drones from one launcher with the same target must share a common swarm marker and be identified as such.

Similarly, I have no trouble with there being guidance and control problems past range 8, that's a feature not a bug. Part of the reason for picking type VI's is that its an existing system, which can already be put out in massive numbers by a number of different means (e-racks, shatter-packs, g-racks) and is known to be ballanced in those applications, letting loose 8 from one box at once is a significant escalation already, I see no reason to remove any restrictions that would apply to other deployment methods. If you can't control all 8 and need to launch at longer range for some reason, then just launch 6, or 3 or whatever. The proposal has ALSO always included the ability to do a partial launch.

By Jack Bohn (Jackbohn) on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Huh. I didn't page back to FD2.55, using the table under FD2.1 (perhaps there was a correction to the 1990 edition I didn't notice). Well, this will be the biggest change in gameplay since we discovered the Legendary Navigator improves the turn mode by a level rather than dropping to the lower speed range of the same turn mode!