|By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 09:00 pm: Edit|
Hmm, a lot of stuff here. I'm going to post some rambling here... stream of consciousness stuff. Not really looking to get into a tactical discussion (especially today, it's been a long day), just maybe give some insight into what I was thinking (whether you agree or not) going into and during this game.
** This is a really bad matchup for the Fed. I'd personally rather face a TFH than an ISC in the Fed. I knew going in that I would have to roll above average in order to win, so I tried to get to a shot where if I did roll above average, it would really count.
** If you asked me to anticipate before the game what I thought Paul would do, I would have said: 1 EPT, roll the other, get to r8 and OL the PPD. This turned out to be an incorrect guess, but the possibility of this happening had a lot to do about me deciding to shoot at r8 or try to get closer.
** I'm not really a big fan of r8 in general. I know of excellent captains who favor both r4 (or closer) and r8, so it's probably safe to say that there's no consensus about which is better.
Regarding r8 in this particular matchup, if I get lucky and say hit with 3 OLs (let's say 6 p1s because i am oblique to outrun the EPT), that's 48+13=61. About 30 ints (assuming 4 ISC batts went to OL the PPD and therefore unavailable), nice but I don't think this is a slam dunk for the Fed, pretty even. If the PPD is OL the Fed is taking ints as well, and the ISC has an advantage on T2 and T3, especially given the Fed's power curve while reloading. So, I basically have to jackpot from r8 in order to be feeling really good (6%).
From r5 or closer, if I hit with 3 or more (31%) I can be feeling good.
As Dave points out, getting to r5 compared to r8 gets an extra 11 points from 8 P1s. However, there is an extra 6 from shooting a 30 point front shield from r8 rather than a 24 point rear shield from r5 (assumes the ISC is eventually tuning off, like in this game). There is potentially an extra 5 if the ISC has to use batts to HET away, so that is an extra 11+6+5=22 internals, potentially. If the HET happens as did this game, there is also Mizia potential on the ISC (I considered this but would have had to eat the 2nd EPT G so did not).
** That being said, I aimed to get as close as I could T1 (essentially mirroring the Lyran Banzai vs ISC attack which I originally learned from Jude. There was some great discussion about it on the BBS from years back which is now sadly gone - Tactics or RPS thread, I don't remember which. Anyways, gone now.).
** Why did I fire at r5? Paul was at speed 24 at the time so I knew I could get to r4 if I wanted. To do so however, would require eating the 2nd EPT G, and if the bolt F hit I thought I might lose a photon. Actually, the bolt F missed, and I lost a photon anyways on 2 internals. At that point a judgment call whether to try for r4 or take the r5 shot. I decided to take the shot at r5 and WW the 2nd EPT.
In conclusion, the Fed clearly needs a downgrade. I say, take away the G-rack!
|By Chris Proper (Duke) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 09:26 pm: Edit|
In the re-replacement match Duke(FED) defeats Andromedan(ISC).
Paul came out at 24 while I cruised along at 16. The PPD hit all 4 pulses starting at range 15, then at mid-turn Paul decelerated to speed 16 and launched 2 envelopers. I centerline him and kick it up to 31 with batteries. At range 5 he fires all his phasers, neatly dropping my #1 shield then accelerates to 29 and turns off. I fire at 4 and hit with all the overloads, saving 4 p-1s for the follow up. The envelopers do 12 in, hitting the p-3s and hull. Paul side-slips away to keep the range open for as long as he can, but he's been killed by photon dice and he knows it.
In the post-mortem I discover that I've spent 31 energy as warp, and Paul graciously allows it. You'd think I never flew the Fed.
|By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 09:29 pm: Edit|
Duke (FED) over Andromedan (ISC)
It was a 1 turn game.
ISC Prep; Envelope Both G-Torpedos, Hold PPD
Fed starts at Speed 16, ISC starts at Speed 24. We close on one another. Range 15. ISC fires PPD which hits Shield #1 for 4 pulses.
Continue to close.
ISC slows down to Speed 16 on Impulse 16. Fed increases to speed 31 on Impulse 18.
Continue to close.
ISC launches 2 Enveloping G-Torps on Impulse 19 at Range 10.
Continue to close.
ISC Fires 6 Phaser-1s at Range 5. 22 damage just knocks down Shield #1.
Fed continues to close.
Fed fires at Range 4, 4 Phaser-1s and 4 OL Photons. 80 points of damage. Not looking good for the ISC with losing 9 weapons (2 P3s, 3 P1s, 2 Plasma-F, 2 Plasma-Gs)
Continue to close.
Fed gets slammed with 2 Enveloping G-Torpedos (77 total) getting 12 internals.
ISC gets brain fart (i.e. does not realize the Fed still has Phaser-1s to fires.)
Continue to close with ISC down shield facing the Fed.
Fed fires 2 Phaser-1s at Range 2.
9 more internals. 3 weapons gone (1 PPD, 2 Phaser-1s)
|By Chris Proper (Duke) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 09:31 pm: Edit|
Re. Banzai: The Lyran banzai can capitalize on an ISC who makes a mistake. When I tried it on Ralph he just demolished me. Ken's instruction to attack the ISC as close to the center line as possible is dead on.
|By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 07:31 am: Edit|
We should cull out the Fed/ISC stuff to an appropriate thread, not because I object to it being in Masters, but because I think we should try and rebuild a tactics thread for posterity sake.
Thanks Chris and Paul for getting your game done. Thank you also to Ken and Paul for flying backup.
Round 2 is now complete.
1/29/12 is the deadline for Round 3.
|By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 08:56 am: Edit|
You do realize the Tactics thread is all preserved here: http://www.starfleetgames.com/taclinks.shtml? The links are at the bottom of the page and you get Adobe's much better search engine to hunt things down.
|By Chris Proper (Duke) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 11:43 am: Edit|
|By Chris Proper (Duke) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 11:56 am: Edit|
I just got around to checking the PPD damage table. Paul was telling me 1+2+1 at range 11 to 15, not 1+3+1 as it says on the chart.
|By Paul Scott (The_Rock) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 03:02 pm: Edit|
The answer as to whether to fire at 4 or 5 is also easy to decide.
If I bolt and fire my remaining 2 p-1s, I have a 37% chance (if someone wants to, feel free to ask and I will elaborate that calculation) to hit a photon.
To win (at 4 or 5) you need 3 photons to hit.
So, at range 5, we already did that math - 31%.
At range 4, the probability goes up to 59%. The probability of hitting with 3 of 3 photons at range 4 is 30%.
So, assuming no more internals other than the bolt+phaser shot before you hit Range 4 (I actually think the second EPT would have hit the impulse you got 4 as well, but I forget now), that leaves you with a 63% chance to arrive at R4 with 4 photons. So:
.63* .59 + .37 * .30 = 48%.
So if you know you are taking no additional internals before getting R4, you have to go to range 4. Like I said, I think the second EPT would have hit and of course I could have tossed in some p-3s for a low chance to take out a second photon, so I am not saying you did wrong. I am just saying that if the only thing you were worried about was losing the single photon to the bolt shot, then that was not the right choice.
|By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 04:47 pm: Edit|
Would you be so kind as to move this tactics discussion to the appropriate place when you get a chance?
|By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 02:30 pm: Edit|
Andrew, some of the tactics stuff is so twined into the tournament stuff that I'm not sure I can accurately tease it apart.
|By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 03:43 pm: Edit|
No problem thanks anyway Jean.
|By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 10:04 pm: Edit|
Sheap (ATC) defeats Duke (ISC) in 3 turns.
Turn 1 I reinforced, with 12 reinforcement, no disruptors, a WW and 24 moves (16/30/28). I set myself to sticky. He armed a right EPT, held a standard left, went 17/12 for 16 total moves with 9 reinforcement. We both approached midfield, at impulse 19, R13-ish he fired the EPT so I turned right (dir E since I was top) and slipped to keep the range open. On impulse 30 he launched 20 from the the left G-tube and fired the PPD, on impulse 31 I turned to D to get my reinforcement facing (most of it was on #6) as the plasma would still hit in the R16 bracket early in turn 2. Because he fired on impulse 30, one of the pulses was deferred to turn 2. Impulse 32 he turned to A and we ended at R10. Since he slowed down to 12, I knew his speed on turn 2 was limited to 24, and since we were at R10 I knew I could get to OL range. I didn't fire any web on turn 1.
Turn 2 I knew that I had the edge, as I still had all my capacitors full, only had about six points of shield damage and he had fired 3/5 of his heavy weapons. On the down side, I was going to get hit by an EPT momentarily and there were two other plasmas coming soon. I could have stopped to weasel the two plasmas, but this would allow him to get away and come back with more PPD shots so I decided to press the attack. Also, I was pretty sure the other g-plasma on the map was fake, and I didn't want to have to climb uphill through two plasmas at a slow speed. So I went 24 moves again, 15/21/28 which would get me to R8 by EOT with him facing A (I could always add a little more zip from battery if something unfortunate happened closing the range). I also had 3 OLs and the weasel. He went 22 moves (17/23). I turned to C and he slipped away from me, for what started out like a chase turn. I ate the EPT, and then the pseudo, which turned out not to be pseudo at all and blew away most of my #2 shield. I didn't really care if it was real or not as I expected to eat a real one at some point during the turn.
On impulse 9 he made his speed change to 23, turned to B, then slipped to C. Speed 23 misses on impulse 11, so I fired the web to snare him in a breakdown-strength 3 hex web in the R11-20 bracket. He HET back to E, just as my speed change to 28 kicked in, putting us on a collision course. At R2 he fired his E-tube, but it had to go dir A because of the fixed launcher instead of dir F like he wanted. We got to R1 on impulse 18, and I tractored him, then fired my R1 alpha (3 OLs only as the 4th one was empty, but they all hit) scoring 70 points for 40 internals, including 2 plasma (including the one just launched), 3 phasers, 2 shuttles, 8 power, and the batteries. I also threw out the right-side snare. He returned fire with phasers, doing 23 damage and leaving my #1 at 2 boxes. He turned to F pushing me backward and giving the torp a better solution. I thought about releasing the tractor and juking the torp, but if I did that I would have to move into his hex and would not be able to do a followup strike on his down #2 shield. So, I held the tractor and allowed the torp to hit me, which blew up most of my #6 shield. He launched a shuttle at speed 5, which scared me as it it would hit on impulse 20, but there was nothing I could do about it so I just hoped it was fake (it was). His turn also brought his left side phasers into arc, which scored 18 points, including my fired snare, a right warp, and 3 phaser-1's (thanks to those ph-3 arcs). I also spent my remaining battery for reinforcement here. I held the tractor waiting for a good opportunity to release it and slip left to get on his #2 (presumably on an impulse when 28 moved and 23 didn't), but I didn't want to open the range too much before EOT so I waited. Well, my snare solidified and I ended up pushing him into the snare, which was entertaining. I released the tractor, and on impulse 26 was able to slip onto his #2 while he was stuck in the snare. I got my shot and rolled all 6's with my P3s for 12 damage, however I more than made it up on the dac, taking out 2 P1s, his remaining rear plasma, the PPD, his second tractor and three power. Because it was impulse 26, he would have an opportunity to fire that plasma on impulse 1 or 2 of turn 3, though I hoped he would forget about that. I turned to D, sticking momentarily in the snare as well (I didn't want to overshoot as I wanted to have a firing opportunity early in turn 3) before setting myself to slippery and moving out of the web. We ended at R3, facing my #3 to his #5.
Turn 3 I decided I would go ahead and expose my 6-box #2 shield to fire in order to get a good shot, because he only had phasers and not all of them, whereas I had disruptors still and the webfist if I got desperate. I allocated to repair two P1s as P3s, then 2 power to repair my #1 shield, two OLs, my 7 remaining phaser capacitor, batteries, 1 move at speed 4 (in case he parked, the one move would allow me to turn to R2), three tacs and two weasels, one for each of his remaining plasma. He went speed 21, I think (SFBOL crashed while I was writing this up). He did remember to fire his damaged plasma, so I weaseled it. He turned to D, slipping left to get on my down #1. He fired his 360 phasers through the weasel shift at my down #1 at R4, scoring 4 damage which took out one more P1. He grumbled about non-aggression (not really sure why, I had 32 power and allocated 21 of it to weapons, no wonder I stopped), so when my fire control came back on impulse 8 I fired my three OLs (one from battery) and my three facing phasers at R4, scoring 28(?) damage to his #4 and scoring some more internals including his last shuttle, then I TAC'd E to bring my left-side phaser into arc and did 4 more damage. I still had a 2-point web fist available to fire but I was thinking about holding the web to give me a wall to fight behind on turn 4, since my shields were so bad. At this point, he conceded. Though he had plenty of power, he was down to two or three phasers and one plasma-G, not enough to kill me with. I had all three of my front shields down or in tatters, but four P1s, all my disruptors and my caster plus a snare to pad it.
Up next: Either a Gorn or a TFH. Both fortunate opponents for an ISC.
|By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 09:32 am: Edit|
Excellent! The Round III Alacrity Award goes to Duke and Sheap. Congrats Sheap on the win.
The ISC appears to be snakebit, and yet headed for a possible win in Masters 2011!
|By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 10:17 am: Edit|
I have been informed that 3.1 was completed last night, with BS vanquishing, and therefore advancing in, the ISC. Thanks guys and congrats Bill!
So that leaves us with 3.2 and 3.4 left pending with the deadline at 1/29/12.
|By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 12:17 pm: Edit|
3.4 is being played as I type this. More to follow.
|By Jeff McKlevey (Low) on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 12:52 pm: Edit|
3.1 was almost a close fight.
|By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 01:11 pm: Edit|
That write-up was a little sparse Jeff.
|By Jeff McKlevey (Low) on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 01:45 pm: Edit|
T1 - nothing on turn one but me taking 9 to #5 from range 15 and plasma on the board.
T2 - PPD, range 2 tractor, phasers, plasma, and s. shuts where both ship were down two shields and about 45% internals.
T3 - gain space to recharge.
T4 - Close pass with PPD, Disr fire, and a fast F. At the end of this turn, there was one weapon between both ships (he had a disr) He had 5 power I had 3. I did repair a pair of P3's but no power for them. When the Gats came back online, I gave in.
I think there were about 12 internals between both ships at the end.
|By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 05:15 pm: Edit|
I watched some of 3.4 today, and have been notified that despite a game effort, Tartan Army in the Gorn goes down in defeat to the evil Romulan known as Moose. Thanks guys and congrats to Moose, who advances in a good old Gorn.
3.2 is all that remains of our pending games. Fine work by all so far!
|By Gregg Dieckhaus (Gdieck) on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 08:34 pm: Edit|
I've tried to contact Nomad but got no response.
Kerry send me an email and let me know when u can play.
|By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 06:02 am: Edit|
So it looks like it is going to an all ISC vs Big Plasms Semi-Final. Should be interesting to see what the final will bring.
|By Gregg Dieckhaus (Gdieck) on Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 08:58 pm: Edit|
I predict an ISC vs TKE final...
|By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 12:43 am: Edit|
Aww. Hey, I'm bound to beat Moose at some point, may as well start now!
|By Kerry E Mullan (Nomad17) on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 01:07 am: Edit|
yeah sorry about that. For some reason my DSL router/modem blew up on sunday morning and just got a replacement today.
I "think" anytime next week should be good mon-thur so Gregg just let me know what is good for you and I'll meet up at that time.
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