Interesting I could swear we had been told different regarding our F5DB.

I will definatly have an EaW question for your email shortly.

By Troy Williams (Jungletoy) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 02:13 pm: Edit

@ Josh- you answered your question here...

"Penalty applies to each Size Class and based on the EBpv of the ship."

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 02:16 pm: Edit

Jungletoy,
You could build 2 BC's with speed 32 plasma and 2 BC's with the Sabot installed ( labelled BCs I guess ? ) and not pay the penalty because its considered as 2 different hull types.
Read all of EaW 17f carefully.


Same deal for the CM's.

Cheers
Frank

By Kerry E Mullan (Nomad17) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 02:31 pm: Edit

So wait Frank just to be clear on hte last statement. Do you mean to say that varying refits makes each a different hull type?

ie for the KLI for example are these all then diferent hull types as their EBPV is different?

F5B with 12 tim(12 ti moderate speed drones)
F5B with 10 tim and a tiv m
F5B with 8tim and a 2tivm
F5B with 11 tim and a tiiecm drone

Etc.

Wouldn't that make drone users "multi hull avail" quite easily? ie by the same token then couldn't every ship do similar things by just "refitting" the std cost with COs ie assigning a GAS to one would increase the BPV by 2 and hence another hull type?

Am I misreading something here? Note I am not really involved on the building side so this was a surprise statement to me.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 02:37 pm: Edit

Admiral Jungletoy you were correct it seems that I had missed a couple SC 4 ships for both Kzinti and Klingon that would benifit from this.

The F5DB in particular would get alot more common, but as Frank can verify we have never had more than 2, and were under the mistaken belief that the ship was not covered by EaW 17f.

I do feel that limiting the F5DB this way isn't a bad thing, and I would actually caution Mike to consider this a bit more before making final judgement.

I guess a Kzinti SDF in each and every fleet is going to cost me a bit more than I expected.

Fortunatly the DD with drones is under 100, but its very close. The DW's also should be less than 100 with drones in most cases.

Question for Frank on EaW 17f

Lets use the Kzinti DDV first carrier, KHS Long Lean as an example.

Ship cost is 80/65 with 8 pts of drone speed upgrades bringing it to 88/73.

Then you got your dozen AAS Fighters each costing a pt in drone speed cost.

Each costs 3/6 +1 for the drone speed.

Does that make the ship for EaW 17f purposes 136/157 cost?

And the cost for the 3rd DDV would be 176.8?

Am I right to assume the fighters BPV is added to the ship with drone speed costs for EaW 17f?

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 02:41 pm: Edit

GFB:
My read of S8.46 does indeed mean there will never ever be more than one tug of any kind in a fleet that sees combat. (fleet tugs, combat tugs, and LTTs are all tugs by other names, according to the MSC 'TG' identifier)

If it were me, I'd stick to S8 in it's entirety (including command limits).

I don't care for the 'Free Aux' bit. It basically allows each fleet to bring a couple damage-sponges who occasionally happen to have some advantage over warships (bringing in two squadrons of fighters with no escorts, or making your PFT/scout/commando free in the free-aux way).

I have no problem with with-SC4 or without-SC4 fleet limitations. Some races have very excellent SC4 ships (Kzinti FF-variants, Hydran DD-variants) and I would have no problem making fleets based on large numbers of such hulls.

One campaign format we've used around here, is that everyone has their starting ships already defined for them (i.e. 1xC8, 1x D7C, 3xD6B, 5xF5B, etc.. Different for each race but the same across games) and they must form up N number of fleets. Each fleet has to be between X and Y F&E compot during setup. Once the game begins, do anything you like as long as it's a legal S8.0 fleet.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 02:50 pm: Edit

I don't think CO's ever get included in the EaW 17f calculation.

Thats a good question Kerry I don't think that the drones carried make it a different ship for EaW 17f purposes but maybe im wrong.

Using the F5DB as an example.

Could I build 2 at 109 BPV and the full 30 medium speed drones paid for.

Then build as many of them as I want that only have 12 drone speed upgrades paid for 6 BPV. That would put the ship at 99 BPV, and at any colony I could invoke EaW 6d and pay the extra drone cost to bring all drones to speed 20.

That may not be a terrible idea for our reserve fleet F5DB's.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Im not a big fan of the Auxiliaries taking over the game as the best scout choice for everyone.

Its not that the LAS is unbelievably strong, its that you can fit it in every fleet as the scout and not have it take away from your combat hulls.

The L-AC is also easy to abuse if your taking them in the free spot and in the fleet as SC 4 ships. For 90 BPV that is not a bad ship at all. 3 Disruptors, 7 phaser 2's, 5 phaser 3's and lots of 360 arc phasers. Why would you want an F5C when you can have unlimited L-AC's. It takes about twice the internals of an F5, so who cares if the front shield is a bit weak.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings to enforce S8 in EaW2.

Are there any other EaW rules that dont follow S8 besides the Auxiliaries?

By Peter Thoenen (Eol) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 06:44 pm: Edit

Well the point on command limits is it's a way to limit max fleet size. You either use that or a BPV cab. I find the BPV cap better to be honest or folk just find a way to maximize command limits and field thirteen ships. There is no point doing command limit AND BPV limit.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 07:07 pm: Edit

I agree, Peter, that it's not very sensible to limit the number of hulls (via command limits) and also limit the BPV. I recognize that the BPV cap is an attempt to keep people from fielding huge fleets of huge ships. But I am something of a purist, and like the S8 rules as printed.

Perhaps an attempt to keep the fleets down might be to restrict the exceptions to the command limits; No "free" scout slots, no free auxiliaries, no 4-ship-squadrons-counting-as-three-ships, and so forth. Just count your hulls, check the command limit of your flagship, and see if they match. Keep the restrictions that carriers must have their escorts, that SC2 ships must have escorting warships, and so on. You might get one or two super-fleets, but they can't be everywhere at once. Granted, the EaW situation makes them more powerful, since there are limited places to actually be located and choke points exist where open space doesn't have them.

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 08:46 pm: Edit

@ Kerry,
The cost of drone speeds is not a refit, just a drone speed improvement.
So if you have 3 F5DB's with varying drone speed costs all adding up to over 100, the 3rd ( most likely the cheapest or last one built/upgraded ) will pay the 30% penalty.
Upgrading a plasma launcher to Sabot abilities is a refit.
Do note if 2 of them get KIA, then the next one built will not incur this penalty as it applies to existing ships at time of build.

@ Josh,
Fighters are not included in the ships EBpv nor are their drone speed upgrades.
Just the carrier's refits and drone costs is included in the ships EBpv.

CO's are not included in the ship's EBpv.

@ Peter,
In EaW, CBpv limits and S8.0 Command limits is being used to prevent a war fleet of 6 ships accompanied by a civilian fleet of 4 ships and maybe an Aux or 2 !
Civilian and Aux ships count toward S8.0 limits.

@ Matthew,
IMHO, using CBpv to limit fleets is the way to go.
Some CA's are just to strong for their enemies counter part.
Example, Its Y165 and the Feds can field a CC+ and 2 CAR+ for about 450 CBpv including drone costs.
The Gorn can field a CC and 2 CA's worth 364 CBpv.
Using the CBpv system, the Gorn can drop a CC and throw in another CA and a CL to even things up a bit !
If your campaign rules restricts fleets maxed to 3 ships total, the Gorns will lose badly.

In EaW, all ships count towards S8.0 limits, no free scouts.

Cheers
Frank

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 11:32 pm: Edit

I have decided to throw my hat into the ring !


Like to fly the Pels if allowed, if not, Hydrans it is !

Cheers
Frank

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 01:37 am: Edit

Welcome Frank

Looks like we are filling with Admirals, only 1 spot remaining.

Im hoping the Pels will be allowed I think they will be by Mike, but with them not in G3 and the old pre E4 Peladine website taken down how will we get the info on the Pels from the annexes.

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 07:26 am: Edit

I sent Mike the MSC for the Pels.
Hopefully he will allow them but if not, Hydrans works for me.

I have not flown either race so should be interesting for my enemy Admirals to clean up on me !

By Michael Helbig (Admgrraven) on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 11:52 am: Edit

I am going to include the Pels



Welcome aboard Frank you I'm sure will give me back as much grief as I've given you. LOL

Michael

By Michael Helbig (Admgrraven) on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Ok I'm officially announcing that EaW2 is a GO!

My Start date is going to be Friday April 6th.

My Admirals currently are:
Gaius Fracking Baltar; AKA Josh Driscol
EOL; AKA Peter Thonen
Jungletoy; AKA Troy Williams
Devil; AKA Majead Farsi
Princeton; AKA Frank Lemay

I have one more admirals slot available so everyone beat the bushes and find a person you can beat on.

Also I'm going to ask that each of you try and find a vice admiral and or battle captains.

This campaign is designed to run BESIDE EaW1 NOT replace it. for those of you that are in both if you honestly do believe you can't do both then EaW1 should be your primary focus.

This is the official announcement that races will be bid upon in a draft. I will be online with each admiral and they will roll a D100 in my presence to determine draft order. There will be no bids for races if your draft order comes below someone else and they choose the race you really wanted you must select another available race. So please make sure you are willing to stick it out if you don't get the exact race you were hoping for. I can tell you though that each of the current admirals all have different races they wish to play so this shouldn't be anything more than a formality.

Again races available are: Federation, Kzinti, Klingon, Lyran, Hydran, Tholian, Orion, Romulan, Gorn, Peladine.

Starting year will be Y165. Each empire will start with a developed colony, 2xF-L 2xF-S 12 GSA's on the planet, an FRD and 2000 BPV for their starting fleet. There will be only 1 AUX allowed per fleet.

I will immediately start drafting the ruleset for EaW2. As there are but a few changes I have in mind this shouldn't take more than a week or so to do. Once the ruleset is complete I will send it out for you all to get familiar with.

The map will be secret in this campaign. You will only see what you have explored.

I'm excited gents for this campaign and I hope everyone will have fun and we will have many years to talk about it.

Michael

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 09:18 pm: Edit

Michael,
Should be fun flying the Pels in this plasma enriched universe !
Thanks !!

Michael, You never caused me greif, just kept me on my toes !


Looking forward to EaW2 !!

Cheers
Frank

By Peter Thoenen (Eol) on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 10:00 pm: Edit

I'm going to withdraw Mike. I'm not going to be a spoil sport and rage quit if I don't get Romulans given "So please make sure you are willing to stick it out if you don't get the exact race you were hoping for. ". I have no interest in this campaign if not flying Roms.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 02:14 am: Edit

I want to step in as an Admiral. I hope for Hydran or Kzinti. But I will take Orion or Fed or Rom or something.

By Michael Helbig (Admgrraven) on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 10:34 am: Edit

Peter,

Sorry to see you go. Tell you what I will do. If I only have 5 admirals at race selection time and none choose Romulans I would be willing to give you a ring and see if your interested at that time. Of course if I get 6 before hand then that offer would be moot.

By Michael Helbig (Admgrraven) on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 10:36 am: Edit

Welcome aboard Matthew.

I will be doing rules up this week and will be sending them out soon I hope. In the mean time talk with Frank and Josh and they can help get you up to speed on most of it. Josh probably more as I've used him as a sounding board on most of the changes between the 2 campaigns.

By Troy Williams (Jungletoy) on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 11:25 am: Edit

Frank you suck. ;-) The Pels are very strong with plasma/drone/p-1 phaser suite. Probably the most efficient hulls to boot.

More rock less talk Spring, Y165 is just around the corner! Woot!

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 11:53 am: Edit

I don't think anyone will be bidding for the Romulans against you Peter.

Matt Ill not oppose your going for Kzinti, in fact I think this is great I will take Klingon Im perfectly happy with any of the D&D empires.

I hope Peter gets his Romulans and can stay in the game.

And yes any questions you have Matt take to Frank or me or Mike if you don't like our explanation, I take my questions to either of them.

I really don't see that the lottery will have any impact on who gets the Romulans, your the only one so far who will even be going for them. And if Matt takes Kzinti and me Klingon, we have 6 Admirals none wanting to take your Romulans away from you.

It should be a good combination with 2 D%D empires, and 3 Plasma, and the Federation. That would definatly have all the major powers Mike wanted in his central themed EaW.

So congratulations Matt the Kzinti can be yours. Ill be going for Klingon, and if we don't bid against each other this lottery will just be a formality.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 11:56 am: Edit

I wouldnt be too worried about the Peladine there nice, but there not a phaser 1 empire at the moment its mainly phaser 2's and they don't have that many drones.

I think they can be competative, but each of these empires can be in the right persons hands.

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Pete,
I hope you return should the Roms are not chosen during the formal lottery !

Troy,
Josh is right, Pels do not have a ph 1 suite as you may think. The BB has only 5 ph 1's !!


Ted Fay will be my Captain in the event I am unable to fly any battles or have too many battles to deal with in 1 turn.

Cheers
Frank