Posted for our mutual reference. Please don't start a conversation here so I don't have to repost this.

You will need adobe acrobat to view the file.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/errata/X-shipCL23.pdf

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 07:57 pm: Edit

Adding some small amount of useful reference material:

Orininally posted by SVC:

I haven't read any of these new X2 topics and for all I know you guys have already gone places I won't be going, but just for purposes of your conversation.

Assume that Module X2 is Second Generation X-Technology, new hulls and new gizmos. Could be improvements of the existing (probably still have phasers) but could be whole new things.

Module X1R might be considered a reinforcements package for the existing X1 and hence would just be more of what was in X1 and, I presume, not part of your conversation.

I won't be paying much attention to the X2 topics until some time in the future when X2 is scheduled. Then I'll survey them for ideas and see if you guys reached a consensus. Could save me a lot of work; might waste you a lot of effort. Time will tell.


This is the origin of the "X1R" for production X1 technology.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 07:58 pm: Edit

This SVC post was originally posted in the X2 BPV topics. I look at it as the prime guideline for X2. The primary thing that comes from it is the idea that General War or X1 tech ships should be a 50-50 fight with the BPV-weight of X2.

This is what we often refer to as X2 "Playing nice" with X1 or GW tech.

It's one of the biggest design pitfalls for X2 because as BPV differences increase, a major tech difference will make the lower-tech ship obsolete. The classic example would be 3 Fed YCAs against a singe BCH, or 4 against a Fed CX.

I haven't read most of the X2 discussions but I asked Petrick to glance over them and give me a head's up. His report can be summarized as:

"The guys in those topics are convinced that X2 ships must be so good that no X1 or non-X ship could possibly hurt one, and that any X2 ship could kill any non-X ship in one volley."

Petrick goes on to state that he thinks this current theory of the X2 discussion crowd is a BAD idea for the reason that it would be all but impossible to play X2 vs non-X or to play X2 vs X1. This would, he notes, further fragment the player base, as those who want to fly non-X ships could never enjoy a game playing against those who only want to fly X2 ships. The result is that the non-X players would never buy the X2 products and those who liked X2 would never again by a non-X product. This would reduce sales for both types of products below the point it would be profitable to print them.

I AGREE that this would be BAD. We need a system where in BPV is standard, and that 300 points of non-X can fight and often win against 275 points of X1 and against 275 points of X2.

If my 125 point Fed CA cannot whup your 100 point Klingon X2-frigate, then what you guys are designing here is not just wrong but totally useless to the company and would be ignored in any design process for X2.

So, anybody who is thinking in terms of Godlike X2 ships that cannot be hurt by non-X ships, get it out of your mind or find another BBS to discuss it.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 08:26 pm: Edit

Thanks for the reminder John.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:18 pm: Edit

An excerpt from Module P6, page 57, written by SVC.

Module X2: Second-Generation X-Ships

Will there be an X2? Assuming that SFB remains a major force in the game industry, it's a fair bet that there will be an X2 in your future, althought not in 1996. While some players have shown antipathy toward X2, it could be presumed that even they will eventually welcome a new challenge.
What will X2 be like? Honestly, we don't know because we have not begun to work on it seriously. We've been collecting ideas, but nothing has been nailed down, hard-welded, or had concerete poured over it. We have looked at a few specific ideas and some general concepts, and I'll tell you about those in just a moment. You are, of course, invited to send in your own ideas of how we might deal with any of the ideas and problems that confront us.
The one thing that I can promise you is that X2 will not be anything like the disastrous Supplement #2 of a decade ago.

WHAT WILL THE SHIPS BE LIKE?
If I have come to any single conclusion regarding the ships of Module X2, it is that just taking every ship and adding a few phasers and some power (as was done in Module X1) is not going to get the job done. We need to think in terms of an entirely new generation of warships.
It's a fair bet that the ships will have more reserve power, but we may accomplish that with a number of special function capacitors instead of just goosing up the batteries.
Perhaps the only detail that seems certain is that phasers will be grouped into a small number of larger groups with broader firing arcs. For example, a Federation 2X-CA might have six FX phasers in the saucer rather than having two LS, two RS, and two FH.
Weapons need to be more dangerous, but perhaps more than just firing twice as often or the oft-threatened speed-48 plasma torpedo. If we just double the firepower and shields of every ship, do we really gain anything? Perhaps so, IF ther is a differential depending on the technology level of the targets. One possibility is that an X2 phaser could leak through X1 shields and punch through non-X shields, creating an interesting dynamic. We might extend overload range or provide ships with an "overload capacitor" that could be recharged when you didn't need all of your power.
We will probably do something unusual with shields, but just what is not decided. One idea (from Garth Getgen) is a self-regeneration capacity that would repair so many boxes each turn for free. One of the most common suggestions is to allow shields to be extended to cover a double arc if an adjacent shield is down. Another idea is a seventh "reserve shield" that would function sort of like armor, soaking up any damage that got through the main shields. Todd Dillen suggested that shields might have a threshold; an incoming volley that does not reach at least that level is simply ignored. You might be able to transfer boxes from shield to shield. It might take non-X ships two damage points per shield box.
One rule I have always wanted to use is "multi-system boxes." You have a box on the SSD that, every turn, you can use as a lab, a tractor, a transporter, or maybe two or three other choices. Such a system would also make it practical to design some fairly small "run-around" ships that, because of their X2 phasers and engines, would be really dangerous opponents for non-X ships to run into.
Gary Forbis suggested that ships might have a "warp capacitor" to allow them to "bank" movement points for later use. I said no at the time, but have lately thought it possible.

A NEW SOMETHING?
One idea I had was to invent some kind of totally new weapon that everyone could have, and install it on every 2X ship. I have no idea what that weapon would be, but the concept of making 2X technology really \idifferent} instead of just better than X1 technology is my central theme.
Several suggested an X-drone able to drive around firing a phaser-3 all day, sort of an unmanned robot shuttle. Indeed, Tom CLancy once suggested that the next generation of warships would all have unmanned remote-controlled weapons platforms, and that's not a bad idea.
Richard Eitzen suggested that X2 ships reallocate some of their power in mid-turn, giving them more flexibility.
There might be some HDW-type modularity.

A JUICY NEW ENEMY
One major focus of any disucussion of X2 will have to be the new "common enemy" to occupy that position that the Andromedans occupy in the universe to date. This enemy has to be mean, dangerous, and able to fight just about everyone (geographically and politically.)

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 05:22 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

One idea I had was to invent some kind of totally new weapon that everyone could have, and install it on every 2X ship

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 05:30 pm: Edit

Xander, please do not start a conversation here. This is for reference material only.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Oops - I'll edit. Where should I put it? It's a decent thought.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Try Major X2 changes. I'll answer there.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Posted so we don't lose track of it:
SVC's preliminary ruling on the XP refit as of August 2004.

This is for information only so please post no discussion here.

-----------------------------------------
PRELIMINARY DECISION
=
Yes, partial upgrades happened.
=
When: From the time that X-tech was invented to the end of the General War, Partial-X refits were fairly rare, amounting to perhaps 1/4 of the number of X-ships. The problem is that X-components were being used to make X-ships and the production of no individual bit greatly exceeded the production of any other individual piece. During the Andromedan War, this accelerated slightly but still amounted to no more than 10% of the non-X fleet, and most of the non-X fleet was increasingly obsolescent.
=
What systems:
Shields: No increase in boxes. Faster repair (XD9.21 in CL23) might be possible but might not. Still thinking.
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Warp engines: No, if you do that, you go all the way.
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Phasers: There are three questions. After much discussion we decided that the power grid is fine. Rapid pulse is probably possible and larger capacitors are possible. We will probably allow this on a per-phaser refit that must cover all phasers on the ship.
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Heavy weapons: Probably. (The middle ground of only on ships without drone racks makes no sense to us and isn’t an option.) We need to review this in more detail. The fact that upgrading these would mean changes to SSDs is a significant drawback, but this could be handled by a master weapons chart. The big thing is highly variable costs. An X-disruptor refit is cheap since you just gain holding. An X-photon refit is going to cost a lot. X-refits will NOT add weapons so you won’t gain a third disruptor or a second plasma-F.
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Drones: Yes, but with limits. You can pay to install an X-rack and it works fine. You can pay something to upgrade your normal racks for the extra plus and sockets but there are still going to be some space limitations we’re writing a rule about.
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Crew quality: use the non-X rules.
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Maneuver bonuses: No, you didn’t get the engines, so you don’t get what they give you.
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Fire control: No. Long argument, final decision. No.
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Batteries: Yes, but with limits. Current theory is that the max draw (limited by power grid) is equal to one point from each original battery. If you have four batteries and lose one of them you can still draw four points, from any of the batteries. I don’t favor the two-point solution because that is inventing a new kind of battery not just swapping out the two kinds that already exist. We’re still thinking about maulers but this solution would seem to work for them.
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X-cloaks ok.
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X-mega-fighters. I remember this subject coming up a long time ago, but I haven’t discussed it with Petrick so no decision on this.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 07:17 pm: Edit


SURVEY Response.

1. Do you think partial X refits happened? Yes or no.

yes.

2. When do you think they happened? Choices include: when X was invented, late in General War, after General War.

Late in General War

3. For each of these specific items of X-tech, indicate if you think they were or were not included in the partial refit, and why:

Shields: Yes. Increase in Minnimum Shields, and faster repair rate.

warp engines: No.

phasers:

Yes. Allow Increase capacitor size.

heavy weapons:

No, but allow Plasma to have 2nd PPT.

drones:

Yes.

crew quality:

No.

Maneuver bonuses: No.

fire control & Tac Intel:

Yes.

Batteries: Yes, if baateries are made more efficient they will be used, at least in new construction, and major overhauls, this upgrade may even be available before X-Ships are.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Very nice, thanks John!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 07:30 pm: Edit

Tos: sift this file for anything usable and copy it into the new X1R file. Feel free to recruit help. I don't expect to have the luxury of doing so.

Topic closed. See the X1R topic.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 05:27 pm: Edit

a SVC quoate important to X1 and X2 (Remember keep comments off this thread so the good stuff isn't buried in the archives)

Remember that the old Supplement 2 thing is pretty much dead, no longer part of universe history. The current history is more or less....

During General War, border areas get shot up a lot. Federation civilian populations in border areas were "captured" by the Coalition and "liberated" by the Feds. They like the Feds better (lower taxes, more support, generally wealtier economy to operate in). Borders restored at the end of the General War.

Post-war economy (running concurrently with the Andromedan War, which, as noted in CL35, is a very strange war and most people don't even notice it is happening; those who do notice tend ot not survive the experience) is lots and lots of freelancers looking for stuff that X-technology needs.

Used gunboats, military weapons removed, are the primary prospecting boats. so many of them it's hard to control and track them. Most races/empires do things like Mexico does now. You don't need a passport to enter Mexico, but you do need one to go more than a few miles (I think 20 miles) into it. The old "trade war borders" are in fact, not borders, just the point where you need a formal passport to enter. Lots of Fed prospectors in Klingon border provinces (under various Klingon laws and rules) and more than a few Klingons and subject race people in Fed border provinces (more than a few of them asking for immigration permits).

Tos, you have the attitude that "everybody is tired of the general war, so let's do something else" but surveys show that everybody EXCEPT YOU is NOT tired of the General War. So X1R has to have a strong general war element.

Basically, most of your background is not happening. Some of your ship lists and technology ideas are workable in another framework.