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Jon,
Do you KNOW that sun Snakes are not native to the WYN cluster? I know that I don't know that. What if they are like Salmon? They travel to the WYN cluster to spawn, and seek stars to die (like the fabled elephant grave yards in Africa legends.)

They have to come from some where, and the WYN system stars are unique being isolated by the radiation zone.

Perhaps the knowledge to control sun snakes comes as a result of a WYn star ships dealings with a sun snake?

Even the threat to unleash pet sun snakes against an enemy empire has to be taken seriously.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 02:13 pm: Edit

I had assumed that Sunsnake reproduction was accomplished by destroying suns. The explosion incubates one to three baby snakes and they head out. Otherwise it seems an incredibly lifestyle oddity. Why would they blow up stars just to die? That to me would just imply that the sunsnakes had to have been originally engineered as a weapon.

If they do all spawn in the WYN cluster then the WYN could also easily wipe them out or the surrounding powers would keep a close eye on the cluster barrier to make sure none get out.

If you are going hypothetical though for this scenario it is probably easier just to say that the WYN have an element or rare mineral or handwavium of some kind that is only found in the cluster and if enough of it goes into a star it blows and you shoot your robot cargo ship into it or even some kind of long range variant similar to a Qari scud.

If you want to go hard-core WMD make it cause a hypernova with gamma radiation burst. You blow the star and shoot out enough radiation to sterilize some neighboring star systems within a few years when the radiation arrives leaving the empire with a massive evacuation crisis or crises. This makes defense more problematic because you have to defend every "hypernova capable" star in range of your colonies. It also mimics the Korean situation. If one of their neighbors were to start pulling people off the bordering colonies (evacuate Seoul) the WYN know they have to attack now.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 06:09 pm: Edit

It would fit the scenario setting.

And if the WYN could deploy some sort of system to ballistically "launch" these sun snake weapons to hit the home worlds of the Kzinti,Lyran's, klingons and the western major worlds of the Federation (Cygnus) it would fit somewhat better.

And if (in this alternate reality) the Klingon empire had once supported the WYN kingdom only to become just another target....

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 11:27 am: Edit

If it can hit Cygnus it has the ability to hit the Klingon, Kzinti, Lyran, LDR, and probably Hydran homeworlds too. As soon as they realize the WYN have this weapon the Klingon, Kzinti, and Lyran fleets would probably all mobilize their "spare" fleets (Kzinti Barony, Lyran Far Stars, Klingon Reserves) and portions of the other fleets and set up a blockade on the border and they can probably monitor the whole thing until they can go through the zone and wipe the WYN out. No one would put up with that credible a threat. If the Orion shipyards were never built and it was just the Usurper the WYN fleet would also be weaker (probably no Orion ships, no fish ships).

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Exactly.

Too dangerous to leave it in the hands of an unstable dictator like rocket... er um, the leader of the WYN hermit kingdom. Yeah that's right.

And militarily weaker than the "real star fleet history" indicates.

And, even better, it might all be a bluff that no one could afford to not take seriously... so it really doesn't change anything in the existing game rules... except a couple of star systems going nova from "natural" sun snake attacks that the WYN dictator claims responsibility for.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 02:46 pm: Edit

I am not convinced it works at that point. What is preventing invasion with a force kept outside the zone to blockade it preventing more attacks?

The reason North Korea survives is the cost in lives to subdue it and the humanitarian crisis that would result. The invader would lose ships but they do not need to occupy it. They get a force into the zone (or the Klingons and Lyrans attack simultaneously to dilute the response or the Kzintis with a Fed expeditionary fleet). Once they get through the radiation zone they go to the sun snake nursery and destroy it. Then they devastate the WYN capitol, destroy all their orbital base, and trash their conversion shipyards. No need for ground troops so casualties are low and who cares about the humanitarian situation? The WYN is not a population held hostage like North Korea. The political fallout afterwards would be rough as no one wants anyone else to own the cluster. Most likely the Klingons would get it.

What is the objective of this scenario? Some kind of F&E scenario? An SFB campaign? I think the threat needs to be more muted to make it not result in immediate attack.

It would be a frustrating campaign to play for whoever plays the WYN. In the year 205 you are looking at X-ships (possibly 2X ships) and your background has the WYN using presumably overgunned Early Years ships? An X1-cruiser can take out a fleet of Early Years ships if the ship is careful. The Radiation zone will show them a bit but X-ships fare much better in the zone. X-ships fresh from the zone are almost as fast as Early Years ships so the X-ships should be able to outfly the reacting ships until the radiation clears. You said they have no PFs so that is another threat out of the way. The Hermit Kingdom would fall easily.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 05:08 pm: Edit

Jon:
That is the point of discussing the scenario, it's a work in progress.

O.k., early years tech is too low to provide enough of a challenge. How about middle years or General War tech? Is that close enough to challenge X-ships?

What if the invading forces must have half of all ships in the force be G.W. tech. Would that balance the two sides?

What if the nursery of sun snakes is located on one of the WYN populated worlds? And the invader did not know which of the 20 planets it was? What if the surviving invasion force had to blockade ALL WYN planets until they could identify the sun snake nursery?

This topic is in the Star FLeet Battles scenario folder, I'm guessing that would tell most players that it's intended to be a SFB scenario...

No one has suggested just how the WYN dictator can, could or would be able to deploy the weapon (assuming there is one...) so until we do, it's impossible to determine if a blockade force even has the ability to intercept the weapon.

Th WYN forces would be out numbered, but they could concentrate forces at one or two points... the blockades have to be strong everywhere.

The WYN only have to get lucky once. The invader/blockader has to win every time.