I haven't seen the SSD, does it have two G-torps or something else?

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 02:22 am: Edit

The ship's equipment is listed earlier on this page.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 04:40 am: Edit

Oh, that's just crazy. How could someone seriously propose THAT as a tournament ship?

Scatter-pack, 2 drone points, 80 points in Fs and Gs, 11 point phaser capacitor, excellent phaser arcs, internal toughness?

Whoever did that should not be allowed to design tournament ships. Geez.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 09:38 am: Edit

Please remember to criticize the idea, not the person.

Jean
WebMom

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 11:23 am: Edit

Well, as a first draft it is understandable, as it is essentially a bog-standard Peladine CA with the usual tourney mods (4 shuttles, no balcony, 5 battery, tournament shields). It is just that the Peladine are overpowered in general.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 12:30 pm: Edit

I think if it had 4xP2 FA, 3xP2 RX, 2xP1 360, 2xG torp, 2xF torp, 2x B rack and standard tournament power/shields/etc., it would probably be reasonable. It has a heck of an anchor threat (2xG, 2xF, 2xType IV, 2xSuicide Shuttle all at the same time, with a heavy weapon's suite that costs a grand total of 2 power to hold. Or 4 if you count the suicides), but not wildly over the top.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Peter,

Re: Well, not having E4, that doesn't help much :-)

Good reason to get E4 then?

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Heh--probably. Honestly, I didn't even know it existed. I'll go check that out.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 08:54 pm: Edit

You can get E4 on e23.

Peter, so what your saying, is cut out 2 of the FA P2 and the scatter pack and the extra drone points?

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 09:18 pm: Edit

That would be my suggestion--I'd definitely, no questions asked, immediately remove the SP and the 2 drone points (the Shark doesn't get a SP and drone points, the WAX doesn't get any of those, an Orion with drones doesn't get any of those; SP and drone points are an exception rather than a rule in tournament play). I suspect the 2xFA P2s should go too, but trying it without the SP/drone points wouldn't be out of the realm of reason first.

But if you want to cut out the middle man, remove the SP, drone points, and 2 of the FA P2s, and see how that works, and if it needs a tweak up, tweak up from there.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Peter,

If one compares the Peladine to the ISC, which is arguably one of the most powerful tournament cruisers in the game.

The Peladine trades a PPD for two drone racks, a slightly thicker ship, slightly better plasma F launchers, and better phaser armament.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Which isn't an unreasonable trade *without* the SP and drone points. The Peladine has a much stronger anchor threat than the ISC (2xG and an F vs 2xG, 2xF, 2x heavy drones. Plus the dual shuttle bay), and in close, 2xB racks are always going to be more potent than a PPD. Don't get me wrong--the PPD is strong, but I think the armament of the Peladine is pretty strong. Without the SP and drone points.

Maybe we can get a game in tomorrow and see what happens :-)

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 04:43 pm: Edit

So Barry and I played a game last night, my Alunda TC (12xBB/2xPW) vs his Peladine (no drone points or SP).

T1: I move 16 till about 12 and then 31 till the end of the turn (26 moves), turn on my ship (3 power--no LS on the Alunda), hold a weasel, and put 8 power into my BB capacitor (20 total power for the turn). Barry moves 17/24 kind of a split, with 2x enveloped G torps. We cruise up the map. At about R9, Barry launches an enveloped G torp and a couple drones and turns C (I'm facing A). Next impulse I launch a whipcrack torp at each drone and turn F. We get to R7, so I fire 4x4 point BBs and 6x1 point BBs (22 total power, so 2 out of battery). I roll cruddy, only hit with one of the heavies, and do 22 damage to his #2. Having fired most of my guns, Barry HETs back at me to follow in his torp. He shoots a couple phasers at my whipcrack torps, which hit his drones for 2 or 3 damage each. I slip away, and turn E as soon as I can. Barry chases, launches a second enveloped G torp. We end the turn at about R5, one of his G torps 2 hexes from me.

T2: I move 31 till about 22 then 16, hold a weasel, put 8 power into my capacitor (8 total this turn). Barry moves 31/24, probably recharges his batteries from the HET, rearms some torps and phasers. He chases me as I run from the envelopers. I turn south then then towards my right hand corner as he keeps coming. Mid turn, he turns to follow me, and I get R4 (after the envelopers evaporated) on his 8 box #2, and blast him with 2x 4 point BBs and 2x 1 point BBs (10 power, 2 from batteries), hit with everything, and do 22 internals, hitting all 14 hull, an F torp, and a couple phasers and power. I get in front of him and slow down to 16, so he launches both F torps and a drone at me before the 8 impulses from one of them dying is up. I see that the F torps are going to hit me for 30 damage on a shield that he can follow through closely with phasers, so I decel and weasel the torps. He gets to R3 before I stop and blasts through my #4 for about 10 internals with his forrest of P2s. I put my AFC back up, but void my explosion the impulse before it ends on impulse 32 as I fire 2x .5 BBs to kill the two damage drones on the map. We end the turn at about R3, him off my #2 shield.

T3: I plot speed 0 with TACs, arm one of my ARFs, put, like, 24 power in my BB capacitor, start a new weasel. Barry moves 8/4/0/TAC, rearms phasers, puts some power in tractors and has some reinforcement. Impulse 1 my AFC comes up, so I grab him with an ARF (auto hit to drag in at R3). Impulse 2, I pull him to R2, he launches a fast F at me, and I fire 4x 4 point BBs and 4x 1 point BBs. I roll horribly, hitting with 2 of the 4 heavies and don't even drop his #6. His plasma hits my #2 for 20, and he follows up with a pule of P2's for another 15 or so internals. He launches 4 shuttles (all manned), I launch 2 (same). I turn off the ARF to leave him at R2, but on impulse 4, he gets to R1 anyway. I TAC my #1 at him, ID a drone on the map as a type IV, decide that I can't really do anything about it, so I fire my 2 ready BBs as heavies into his weak #6, hitting with both for 18 or so internals, followed up by my PWs for a few more in in small volleys. I take his type IV on my #1 for 24 damage. His shuttles and a couple P2s kill my shuttles, his 4 shuttles fly around me, doing about 8 more in as he goes by. He tractors me. I probably fire my last couple BBs into his ship for 1 point each for a few more internals. We end the turn at R1, tractored, my 6 box #1 facing his 30 box #1, his 4 shuttles off my #5. He maintains tractor.

T4: I stay at 0, put as much power into my BBs as I can, TAC, and hold a weasel. I fight his tractor auction up to 2, just to make him spend some power. He rotates me to R0. Impulse 1, I blast him with 4x4 point BB and 2x1 point BBs. He launches a G torp and fires a bunch of phasers. I hit well and knock down his #1 and do another dozen or so in. He does another 15 or so through my #1. Impulse 2, I TAC my up #6 to face his torp, which is a pseudo anyway. I fire a PW through his down #1 (he didn't have an up shield to TAC anyway), roll well, do like 10 internals, and he surrenders, having virtually no weapons left. I'm a mess, but still have over half my BBs and enough power to fire them. His shuttles will still mess me up some, but not enough at that point.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 04:48 pm: Edit

The Alunda still seems probably overly strong, although really, what makes it strong is the stuff that you can't really change without making the ship not an Alunda (i.e. the incredibly flexible BBs that let you fire heavy OLs out of back shields as needed). And even as strong as it is currently, it has a lot of trouble vs drone ships.

I think the good thing to do currently is go back to the basic Huntship armament--10xBB (2xFA/L, 2xFA/R, 2xLS/RF. 2xRS/LF, 2xRH) and 4xPW. Maybe take out a couple points of power (it currently has 38, but effectively 39 due to not needing to pay for LS. And then it has 5 battery every turn for the first 3 turns), so it is at 36 with the 3 batteries, although I'm not sure what 2 power to take out--it needs the APR to be able to recharge batteries. Maybe 30 warp, 4x APR, 2x Impulse?. But I think the 10xBB and 4xPW armament is the good place to start.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 04:55 pm: Edit

The Peladine seems like it is strong but possibly reasonable as it is now, but without the SP and the drone points. Very strong anchor threat. Reasonable plasma tactics possible. Strong phasers. Some drones as back up.

In this game, I rolled horribly, but still pulled out a win, but I think Barry zigged in a couple places where he probably should have zagged:

A) Launching 2x enveloped G torps on T1 seems dubious--if you launch 1, I'm already probably running away, at which point you have to launch the second at someone who is already running away. Probably better to arm a single enveloper and roll the other torp. If I run, you can launch a second on T2. If I crash the 1st enveloper, you are up 36 damage, can follow up with 40 more plasma, and have that huge phaser battery to go through the hole.

B) Turning to let me shoot his 8 box #6. This might have been just 'cause he didn't notice, or 'cause he didn't realize I could shoot 4xBB back in that direction (or that I could have 10 power for BBs while running 31 most of the turn), but this gave me 22 free internals early when it mattered.

If a couple of the shuttles launched on T3 were SSs, there was almost nothing I could do about them, and a couple SS hits at that point would have been huge too.

Still, I think the Alunda is too strong anyway.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 05:06 pm: Edit

I would like a few additional playtests of the Peladine tournament ship to just confirm that it is too much. And not just against the WYN Aux please.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 05:18 pm: Edit

The Peladine Tournament ship does have some negatives.

It only has two phaser-1s, and because of the 360 mounts (which admittedly allows them to fire in any direction) it will lose one of them on the third "phaser" hit of any volley, and the other to the second such volley. (Yes, I know getting those three "phaser" hits can be difficult.) While phaser-2s are better than phaser-3s, they are not as good as phaser-1s at any range but zero, and then only on a die roll of "6."

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Yeah, I think with it as it is currently (2xG torp, 2xF torp, 2xP1, 9xP2, 2x B-Rack) and without the SP and the drone points, it is reasonably strong, but not overly so.

It is tough (14x C hull and 8x Lab. Apparently Raccoons like science!) and takes damage well. It can use reduced but standard plasma tactics--envelopers still work, but not as well with just the G-torps; it can anchor *very* effectively as it has more power than a standard plasma ship (albeit due to the G-torps), and can anchor and hit with 2xG torps, 2xF torps, 2x drones, 2x suicide shuttles. Difficult to pull off, but a significant threat.

I think a standard game plan of an opening enveloped G followed by either more plasmas and drones and a strong phaser suite if the opponent charges or a chase into the corner for an anchor attempt or a very strong R3 phaser/bolt shot is a viable plan for the ship.

I suspect that with the SP and drone points, the ship will be wildly strong. Without, it is interesting and viable, but probably not too strong.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Re: The Alunda:

I'm going to suggest to Barry to put the ship at 10x BB and 4xPW (i.e. turn the 2xFH BB into PW again) and 36 total power (30 warp, 4xAPR, 2xImpulse) and see how it goes from there.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 07:18 pm: Edit

Yup.. Agreed on Alunda... and the Peladine may now be about right without the SP and drone points.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Had another playtest with the Peladine TC yesterday versus the Wyn Aux Box ( Hellbore, Photon, Disruptor, Disruptor )

I ended up conceding because I discovered during EA that I had fired 6 phasers that I did not have power for on the previous turn.

But, I'd say that the Peladine plays well and I don't see any balance issues.

All that means, is that it is in the ballpark. Too soon to tell for sure.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Barry,

Was the Peladine with the modifications of "no drone points or Scatter pack".

Thanks.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 06:53 pm: Edit

That is correct. I was playing the Peladine with no drones points and no scatter pack.

By Eric Phillips (Ericphillips) on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 09:39 pm: Edit

This may sound silly, but has anyone thought about a Tournament Juggernaut?

By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 12:11 am: Edit

It sounds less silly than a tournament fighter, tournament base station, or tournament B10 (all of which have been published...).