Archive through May 11, 2012

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Star Fleet Battles Online: Tournaments: SFBOL World League 2: Archive through May 11, 2012
By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Yeah, that was the surprise.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Surprise!

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:15 pm: Edit

So analyzing the tree, it seems kind of harsh that three (the first three) teams ended up having to fight against 3x Fleet Captains and and a bunch of the others didn't. Which is just the vagaries of randomosity--as noted, I had a matrix of games by virtue of alpha numeric "players" facing off against other alpha numeric "players" (i.e. A1 vs B1, A1 vs C1, A1 vs D1, etc.) I put the matrix together having no idea who was on each letter team or who each alpha numeric player was. And the teams were assigned a random order (i.e. who was team A, team B, etc. was the result of die rolls) and then I just plugged folks into the matrix. And that is how things ended up. I had to juggle some folks to get rid of some civil war fights (and in doing so, got to rescue a couple people from having to fight two Fleet Captains in the process), and also tried to fix places where someone had to fight the same ship twice when I could (but, as noted, that was just too difficult to fix when a team had a GBS on it and someone on the team was paired against a couple other GBSs).

Given the way I arranged the matrix (which I didn't actually notice until it was done and plugged in), it resulted in three players each fighting the same 3 players (i.e. A3, B3, and C3 each had to fight I3, J3, and K3, for example). I think those mostly got mixed up when I was fixing civil wars, but it is possible that might show up some in the tree. I don't know that it is that important to fix, but in the long run, it seems like it is better to spread out folks more. In practice, I think most of that got fixed. But I'll see if I can fix the matrix in the long run.

Just analyzing the format out loud.

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Yeah, I happened to notice that my team drew three fleet captains, and the one of those that is using the Federation managed to draw our Hydran player instead of our WAX or Romulan :)

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:18 pm: Edit

Yeah, the bad RPS matchups were simply not a factor I could worry about.

By David Zimdars (Zimdarsdavid) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:32 pm: Edit

Asking for a Fleet Captain around here is about as specific asking for the doctor in a hospital.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Yeah. The fleet captains and rated aces are particularly plentiful on the client and the BBS. I don't think it's a bad thing, since I want to be one of them too.

What's the best way to learn Kung Fu? get beat up alot by people who know it. So my additude is more along the lines of "Thank you sir! May I have another?"

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Yeah, I'm not saying I want a redraw or anything. It's like in the NFL, every team has something in their schedule to complain about :)

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Heh. I think there used to be a seeding system (long, long ago...) in World League that was based on a given player's NK Rating. That must have been complicated.

By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 09:38 pm: Edit

In 2008 (last year I ran this event), there was team seeding based not on NK Rating, but on last 3 RAT results and last year's WL result (this seeding methodology dating back all the way to 2001 when SteveT ran it, I believe). It wasn't that hard to calculate, and was used to seed the highest-point teams to the different pools. Would have required a different methodology this year as there are no "pools", only "one big pool".

By Eric Phillips (Ericphillips) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:07 pm: Edit

Deleted

By Eric Phillips (Ericphillips) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:08 pm: Edit

Well, only two of my three games are against the WYN GBS... of which I have never played or played against.

Doesn't bode well.

By the way, whats the difference between the GBS BB and B1?

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:10 pm: Edit

BB has 4 B racks

B1 3 B racks and 1 ph 1 right side.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:13 pm: Edit

And there is the rare and exotic Ba

3 B racks and an ADD

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 04:24 am: Edit

If only there was a "Baa" model, I would play it. :)

The GBS is about midway between the Kzinti and the Klingon. It doesn't have quite the drones of the Kzinti, or (in most cases) quite the direct firepower of the Klingon, but it takes damage better than either (due to balanced hull and better P3 arcs). A GBS that takes two phaser options will have a lot of direct firepower, but few players do that, because of damage and energy considerations. If you don't take any drone options, the first drone hit reduces you from two drones to one; otherwise, you will go down to two or three drone racks. Two or three drone racks is a serious threat (you can still fire two heavy drones), whereas one drone rack is more of a mild annoyance. Drone racks are also very fast to repair, and while you won't have any reload drones to put in the rack, it will pad your other racks quite well. So while the GBS (like the Klingon or Kzinti) can lose one drone rack rapidly, it can be a challenge to break more than one.

Compared to either the Kzinti or Klingon, the biggest disadvantage is the lack of the scatterpack. However, that also gives a lack of dependence on the scatterpack.

I don't feel the GBS is, exactly, better than either the Kzinti or Klingon. By the numbers, it has slightly fewer phasers, no drone points, no scatterpack, and no special abilities (vs. the Klingon's UIM or the Kzinti double control). However, what it lacks in gadgets, it makes up for by having more even matchups across the board. There are not really any bad matchups for the GBS, whereas the Kzinti and Klingon, while not having many really horrendous matchups, have at least a couple of negative ones.

This is kind of the same reason I took the Firehawk instead of the Eagle (a ship I consider myself more skilled in). The Eagle has problems with the other Romulans and is basically auto lose against the Tholians and the Orion, whereas the Firehawk is at least functional against them. So, naturally, nobody took Tholian or Orion and there's only one other Romulan....

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 07:41 am: Edit

re: Seeding.

Well, if we end up with a similar kind of format next year (i.e. one big pool), I'll angle to "seed" the pool by spreading out the hard hitting teams (i.e. the ones with multiple highly ranked players) more evenly in the pool, which should distribute things better--as it is, a lot of, say, Fleet Captains ended up in the bottom half of the pool due to random placement, which resulted in the top chunk of the pool getting a very rough schedule. I mean, again, not like this is the end of the world or anything. But something to consider for next time.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Honestly, with the number of multi time aces, and the number of inexperienced players how could the schedule have been put together any different. Would it even change the teams that make it to the second round, much less the finals. I dont think so.

For myself I always enjoy the challange of playing one of the greats of the game, especially if ive never played him.

And besides I really feel like NK rating is at best a rough guide to player skill. Even players with very low rating can earn a point just for completing the game. That wont get them into the playffs, but really the changes to the seeding system would only prolong the inevitable. Come playoff time there wont be much left but teams loaded with Fleet Captains and aces.

I cant complain I have had some terribly hard opponents in every RAT ive ever played in, and last years WL schedule wasnt exactly a cake walk either.

For the record I hate cake, and not expecially gung ho about walks either. But playing any Fleet Captain or ace a game of SFB, now thats something I really enjoy. This year I and my whole team were gifted with 89 percent of our competition being aces, but two of them must have aced about 20 times.

Id like to thank our freinds at Random.org for this accelerated education we are about to recieve. :)

By Mike Kenyon (Mikek) on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 01:17 pm: Edit

Josh, there really needs to be a "Like" button on this forum ...

By Eric Phillips (Ericphillips) on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Thanks Josh and Sheap. Good overview of the WYN. Now, I just can't let the Wyn win.

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Hulk (Droid) smash puny ScottishEngineer like red headed Loki this Tuesday 5/15 8 pm eastern.

By Mike Kenyon (Mikek) on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Fighting angry will always be the downfall of the Hulk ;)

By Geoffrey Nokes (Chaotic_Cobalt) on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 11:42 pm: Edit

I must say i play this game for the internals.
i love seeing the spew of hits and the resulting red boxes of destruction. Less so when there on my ship, but hey,there's always exploding in your enemies face! (Am i sounding more and more like a Gorn to anybody else?)

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Is there any rule prohibiting a team from having more than 1 ship per team from any empire?

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Nope. But maybe there will be. In the name of making my life easier in the long run.

One year, a team was (IIRC) all various Romulans. And one year there was an all Orion team.

By Bill Schoeller (Bigbadbill) on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:55 pm: Edit

I beat Josh, aka Gaius in my first WL match tonight.

Thanks for the great game Josh!

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