Archive through March 09, 2002
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
New Rules:
(E) Weapons:
Tracer Photon Torpedos:
Archive through March 09, 2002
This is, as far as I know, just the product of my own dabbling. If it's been thought of before, please ignore.
Tracer Photon Torpedoes
_.01 Photon torpedoes may be fired in tracer mode. The decision to fire in tracer mode is made at the time of firing.
_.02 The torpedo expends part of it's charge leaving an ionized trail behind it. This reduces the warhead strength by 50%. If the tracer photon hits, any photon torpedoes fired by the same ship on the immediate next impulse receive a -1 modifier on their rolls to hit (with photon torpedoes) the target of the tracer photon.
_.03 Standard, overloaded, or proximity fused photon torpedoes may be fired in tracer mode. Warhead strength is rounded down in the case of partially overloaded torpedoes with an odd warhead strength.
_.04 Example: A Federation CA is dueling with a Klingon D7B. The Klingon is maintaining range 15. The CA has 2 proximity torpedoes and 2 standard torpedoes ready. On Impulse #14 the CA fires both proximity torpedoes as tracers, hitting with both and scoring a total of 4 points of damage on the D7B's #3 shield. On Impulse #15 it fires both of its standard torpedoes. Normally it would hit on a 1-2, but because it hit on the previous impulse with a tracer it now needs a 1-3. The CA rolls a 3 and a 4, hitting with one of the two standard torpedoes and delivering an additional 8 points of damage to the D7B's #3 shield.
Why use tracer mode photons?
They add a few tactical wrinkles to make the basic Federation photon and phaser ships more interesting opponents. The Federation player gets a method of improving photon to-hit chances, but with a definited downside (reduced damage, and if the tracers's miss, nothing gained) so determining just when it's to the photon ship's advantage is not trivial.
One such situation might be the range 8 four overload strike from a Fed CA. Typically it will hit with 2 of the 4, doing 32 points of damage. If it instead fired two as tracers, hitting with one on average and doing 8 points and then on the next impulse fired the other two as normal overloads, it would have a better chance of hitting with both. Essentially it would come down to (on average)a trade off between doing 32 damage or doing 24 or 40 points of damage.
::blink::
::blink::
Good gravy, it just might work!
I like it!
hmmm. If this existed, I'd consider firing one prox and having the remainder armed as standards. I fire the prox, if it misses I fire one standard, if that misses I fire one more standard. If any of those hit I fire all remaining torps, otherwise I continue to hold the last torp.
Let's consider this at close range though, shall we?
Range 3 I fire one overload torp (1-4 to hit). If it misses, no big deal. If it hits - and the probabilities say it will - the other player takes 8 damage and needs to make an immediate choice. Close to 2 and allow all three of the remaining photons to hit (1-5 + 1 is auto without feedback), or stay in the 3-4 range (probably by turning out), giving the fed 'only' a 1-5 for the remaining three photons (and if you turn out it's probably not on a perferred shield either).
Would I do this? In a heartbeat.
Hmmm... maybe a minimum range of 4?
The tracer photon should do NO damage (but always gets the +2 for proximity even inside range 8) fusing as a tracer must be marked in EA just as fusing as a proximity is.
This stops long range prox shots which cost only -2 damage for an average of 4 extra damage the next impulse on 3 other photons (assuming a 4 photon ship firing 1 prox and 3 standards).
The advantage of increased consistency of damage is gained without as much of a chance of increased average damage.
DougL
Then what's the point? If the chance to hit goes up, but the average damage stays the same......then it is a wash and does not matter.
Consider this.
The tracer and the regular photons are fired at the same time, (or perhaps the tracer can fire a tad earlier much like the first and second phase of hellbore firing).
However, in either case, all fire must be announced.
If the tracer hits, the remaining photons get the -1 modifier.
The tracer (as originally intended I think) is meant to sacrifice warhead strength (I'd say no more than 25%), however I think it must be plotted ahead of time (much like you must load a tracer round in a belt of ammunition), therefore the commitment is made well before hand. IOW, on the second turn of arming, you'd put 2T (T for tracer).
Since the rest of the photons are going to attempt to "trace" the path of the tracer, it will either gain a -1 modifier or (arguably) a +1 modifier if the tracer misses.
I might even argue that this would be used only in narrow salvo function (but that may be too limiting).
It actually fits the photon criteria (all luck or no luck at all). The affects of a hit or miss should swing both ways.
.02
Christopher Fant, one of the major objections to the Fed is the inconsistency of damage, a tracer rule which produces the same average damage more consistently is thus useful for those who think this is a problem. That would be the point.
Those who do NOT think variance in photon damage is a problem can still fire narrow salvos. 
If the purpose of the tracer is an unbalanced improvement of average damage that fundamentally changes the tactics of photon armed ships then I recomend using PERVERSIONS instead. Much simpler, requires less bookkeeping, and does an EVEN BETTER job of improving average damage. A balanced improvement should provide extra options, not simply extra damage.
Ask when you would EVER fire proximity photons from a DD or heavier unit WITHOUT first firing a tracer prox torp under the original rule as written, it is so good it is obligatory.
DougL
An intriguing idea.
However, unless the ship has Aegis (or a similar system, I imagine) I would say that photons fired in the same round as a tracer photon should *not* benefit from the to-hit bonus.
As for damage... hrm, that's a tricky issue. I almost want to say make it do HALF damage. Would there be any provisions for other members of the squadron or group to be able to use the trail from that tracer shot? My gut feeling says, while cool, it would be a very bad thing.
Something like this would definitely alter Federation tactics at least a little. Instead of going for the alpha strike, or the Kaufmann retrograde + narrow-salvo photons, you'd get an almost Mizia-like rate of fire, the tempo being sort of like... pom... POMPOMPOM from a typical cruiser. Destroyers might not have the power to do anything quite like that, though.
Put it in stellar shadows perhaps.
Make it like a real tracer...give it a maximum range (tracer "burnout" range) and increase the energy cost, but leave the damage the same. As for other ships using it to help their to hit roll, I'd say yes, but maybe not quite as good. Tracers are often used for exactly the purpose of designating targets by lead units in the real military. I think it's a neat idea, and worth a try.
The tracer is an interesting idea but it must have the cons with the pros. Otherwise, such a system would always be used.
That is why it should be allocated.
That is why it's success or failure affects ONLY the photons that fire with it.
That is why if it misses, it will cause a greater chance of the other photons to miss. Conversely, if the tracer hits, the other photons benefit.
Allowing photon fire (in future impulses, even just one) to benefit is just way too huge.
This is hardly any different than narrow salvo. In fact, it's a cross between narrow and normal fire.
The Tracer must have a diminished warhead, otherwise why not make them all tracers.
Mike, I see where you're going but I think that would just complicate the rule with yet another amendable energy cost to punch conversion chart.
Keeping it as simple as possible would be the best.
Ultimately, the tracer would be that two edge sword that would win you a battle or kill you in the end.
I think giving it any more benefits than that would make all those people who think Photons are the almighty weapon freak out.
Tracer Mode Photons (Revised)
_.01 Standard photons may be armed as tracers. This is indicated during Energy Allocation. If not fired, the tracer photon may be held or changed to a normal or proximity fuse in a manner identical to the process for proximity torpedoes.
_.02 The energy cost is the same as for a standard photon.
_.03 The tracer expends part of its warhead leaving an ionized trail behind it. The tracer does less damage as a result, scoring 4 points of damage on a successful hit instead of 8.
_.03 The tracer torpedo take slightly longer to arm than a standard torpedo and may not be fired at a true range closer than 3. It otherwise hits at the same ranges and probabilities as a standard photon
| Range | 0-1 | 2 | 3-4 | 5-8 | 9-12 | 13-30 |
| Hit,Tracer | NA | NA | 1-4 | 1-3 | 1-2 | 1 |
| Damage, Tracer | NA | NA | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
_.04 Benefit of the tracer. If the tracer torpedo hits, all photon torpedoes fired by the same ship at the target of the tracer on the impulse immediately following the impulse that the tracer hit on receive a -1 on their to hit rolls.
In order to receive the benefit, the photon torpedoes can not be fired on the same impulse as the tracer. Photons fired more than one impulse after the tracer hit receive no benefit.
_.05 Drawbacks of the Tracer. The ion trail left by the tracer has a detrimental effect on phasers fired by the ship firing tracers. Phaser fire from a ship firing tracer torpedoes suffers a +1 shift on the the impulse the tracer is firing and the impulse immediately after the tracer is fired. This penalty applies regardless of whether the tracer hit and applies to all targets of the firing ship's phasers, not just the target of the tracer.
How about since it ignites it's ion trail, that the firing ship recieves feedback damage from it when it hits, regardless of range.
Now we have gone from nifty idea to way to much effort to use it
_.04 I'm sorry but I completely disagree.
_.05 makes very little sense. Why would phasers be affected?
Anything like what you are showing is way too much. However, as I am obviously in the minority here, I'll withdraw my comments. Good luck.
I'ld like to make a couple of statements.
1) Proxi tracier is based on dubious physics ( even when proxi tracers are used to aim proxi torpedos ( although less so ).
2) The Bonus of the Tracer should be to aid the Photons of the ship and the photons of OTHER ships.
3) The Tracer should aid the Phasers of a ship and indeed the phasers of other ships.
There should probably be two ways to break the tracers effect and it should be be both time and movement related.
E.g.
A ship can break the bonus of the Tracer by earning two movement points on the Impulse table.
Double the Erratic Manouver bonus is added to the speed and if the vessel HETed during the period where tracers effect it, Double the HET bonus would be added to the total number of movement point being generated that turn and applied on the Impulse table such that when two points of movement have been generated, the vessel is realeased form the effect of the Tracer.
Also A ship can break the tracer's effect through the passage of time. After a number of impulses equal to the the command rating of the Tracer launcher minus one per ship ( other than it'self ) that is taking advantage of the data recieved by the Tracer launching vessel, the effect of the Traci is dropped.
Limited Aejis will used doubble the command rating and Full aejis will use tripple the command rating.
I would also recomemd that the Tracer have a standard effect.
Such as Generates 3 ECCM.
Though I kind of like, Proxi Generates 1 ECCM and Standards Generate 4 ECCM.
R.S.:
I think that rather than the Feedback option.
And Vessel firing a tracer lights it'self up like a Christmas Tree and Genrates ECCM for it'self to be targeted reguardless of whether the Tracer hit or missed ( though this Tracer effect can be removed through the normal tracer effect removal method with each enemy vessel needing to use it's own control rating rather than using the control rating of the attacking vessel ) with the exact ammount of ECM being based on the number of tracers launched based on the table below.
| 1 Tracer | 2 ECCM |
| 2 Tracers | 4 ECCM |
| 3 Tracers | 5 ECCM |
| 4 or more tracers | 6ECCM |
What was wrong with the original, standard arming torp doing 4 points of damage if it hits, and allowing a -1 to other torps from the same ship on the next impulse?
C.E.F.
Okay let looks at a few ranges and average damages based on have damage tracers and standards. All attacks will be four photons all standard bar the listed tracers.
RANGE 30
| 4 Standard | 1/6 x 4 x 8 = 6.666 points |
| 1 tracer | 1/6 x 4 + 1/6 x2/6 x 3 x 8 + 5/6 x 1/6 x x 3 = 5.333 points |
| 2 tracers | 10/36 x 4 + 1/36 x 2 x 4 + 11/36 x 2/6 x 3 x 8 + 25/36 x 1/6 x 3 x 8 = 7.006 Points |
RANGE 12
| 4 standard | 2/6 x 4 x 8 = 13.333 points |
| 1 tracer | 2/6 x 4 + 2/6 x 3 x 8 x 3/6 + 4/6 x 3 x 8 x 2/6 = 10.666 points. |
| 2 tracers | 24/36 x 4 + 20/36 x 3 x 8 x 3/6 + 16/36 x 3 x 8 x 2/6 = 12.888 points |
RANGE 8
| 4 standard | 3/6 x 4 x 8 = 16 points |
| 1 tracer | 3/6 x 4 + 3/6 x 3 x 8 x 4/6 + 3/6 x 3 x 8 x 3/6 = 7.333 points |
| 2 tracers | 36/36 x 4 + 27/36 x 3 x 8 x 4/6 + 9/36 x 3 x 8 x 3/6 = 10.111 points |
RANGE 4
| 4 standard | 4 x 8 x 4/6 = 21.333 |
| 1 tracer | 4/6 x 4 + 4/6 x 3 x 8 x 5/6 + 2/6 x 3 x 8 x 4/6 = 21.333 points |
| 2 tracers | 8/6 x 4 + 32/36 x 3 x 8 x 5/6 + 4/36 x 3 x 8 x 4/6 = 24.888 points |
You can determine for yourself as to what effect, if any the tracers will have on combat.
Tracers are used for two purposes.
1. fired single-shot, they tell others on a confused battlefield "shoot at THAT bunker with the rocket launcher". Squad leaders often carry them for this purpose.
2. Fired by a machinegun which has a continuous stream of bullets, they allow you to walk the fire onto the target.
The concept of "fire one, watch it go, adjust the fire of the next one" works nicely when the target isn't moving a whole lot (like, say, a bunker or a stationary tank). When you're talking about a moving and maneuvering target, I am more than a little doubtful that a tracer fired NOW is going to say much about your odds of hitting with the next shot. There is no "wind" to blow one round off target, allowing a tracer to tell you how much to adjust your next shot.
I can understand how the rules were written and they hold water, they just don't hold physics. There is no engineering explanation for how this tracer thing is actually helping.
Physics? When did physics enter this game?
(grin)
How's this for physics, then?
A photon is fired which the player has set as a tracer. If it misses, no effect. If the facing shield is down, it does 1/2 damage per the DAC but has no further effect, the remaining damage-causing energy is wasted. If the 1/2 damage knocks the shield down, no further affect as you cannot mark a shield that isn't there anymore; damage not used to knock the shield down is applied normally via the DAC.
If the tracer photon hits an "up" shield it does 1/2 of it's normal damage (2 prox, 4 normal, 8 OL) PLUS it "marks" the shield it hit. Use any technobabble to explain how the tracer torp "marks" the shield; it causes it to emit hyper-polarized photons or some other kind of funny radiation.
On the following impulse, the "marking" can be used by other photon torps to home in on, giving a +1 to hit. Non-X ships cannot share this info, so if Fed CA#1 tracer-marks a shield, other photon-equipped ships present cannot use that to their advantage. X-Tech ships don't have this limitation and can fire on a shield marked by another ship, as long as the marked shield is facing them.
At the begining of the second impulse following the hit that marked the shield, the "mark" dissipates and has no further affect.
Limitations: if the tracer hits a shield and is powerful enough to knock it down, there is no shield marking for torps to home in on during the following impulse, so no bonus for torps fired then. If the targeted ship can turn so that the tracer-marked shield is no longer facing, there is no bonus to hit (because the now-facing shield is not marked). Tracer marking affects PA panels in the same fashion as if they were shields, so Andros get no advantage here.
Example: on impulse 10, a Fed fires a normally-loaded tracer photon at a Klingon whose #2 shield is facing. The Fed rolls to hit and does so -- the Klingon takes 4 points of damage and his #2 shield is marked. On impulse 11, the Fed fires three more normally-loaded photons set to home in on the marked shield; these roll to hit with a +1, and any that hit do 8 points damage each. On impulse 12, before the Fed can fire again, the "mark" caused by the tracer photon dissipates. BUT...if on impulse 11 the Klingon had turned so that his #2 shield was no longer facing the Fed, the Fed would not get the +1 to hit as the marked shield was no longer facing him. This could be a normal turn, HET, anything that changes the shield facing to the Fed.
Tracer-marking has no effect on any other weapon system, as (1) only a photon torp is capable of marking a shield in this fashion, and (2) only a photon torp can be equipped to home in on the radiation emitted by a tracer-marked shield (possible exception, FRA ships in the Omega Sector?)
Photons cannot "home in" on anything.
Tracer Torpedo (addendum)
_.041 It the target moves after the tracer hit but before the tracer firing ship can fire the followup torpedoes, the benefit is lost.
The Physics of the Tracer Torpedo
As stated, the tracer leaves a trail of ionized particles in its wake by bleeding off a portion of its warhead. The resonance between the ionized particles and the photon torpedoes provides a 'guide path' to the target that the photon torpedoes have a natural tendency to follow (various factors can cause them to jump off the guide path, so it's not a perfect aiming tool). Each tracer is tuned to emit a particular resonant frequency, so the firing ship can determine which frequency to tune its firing control to when firing the follow-up photon barrage. The ionization trail dissipates quickly, so the firing ship only has a narrow window to exploit the guide-path effect.
Unfortunately the trail of ionized particles creates a 'lensing effect' around the firing ship that causes its phasers to be refracted by a tiny amount. This tiny angular deviation can result in a large angular deviation at the target, causing the phasers to be less accurate than normal. Incoming phaser fire is also deviated, but the distance left to travel to the target is so minimal as to have no effect.