Archive through June 26, 2012

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Star Fleet Battles Online: Tournaments: SFBOL World League 2: Archive through June 26, 2012
By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 08:42 pm: Edit

Thanks Jean. I'm not real good with facebook - is it under photos?

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Ken, under the big cover picture is a small photo block of whatever is the most recently posted photo. It is indeed labeled "Photos" underneath it. Click on it. You'll need to keep clicking on "See More" until you start seeing some of the Kzinti ships. To get to the earliest 2500 album, keep going until you see the SF Marine album for Battle for Vista De Las Vegas. It'll be the album right before that one.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Ken, sometimes I think I'm losing my memory. Much easier way. Scroll down to find the proper ship and click on it.

By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 09:46 pm: Edit

That's perfect, thanks Jean! Pics in 2 weeks.

By Brian Evans (Romwe) on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 11:58 pm: Edit

Romwe(Kzi) over Spaceball(Fed) in a fast paced 3 turn game. Go Action Cats!

By David Zimdars (Zimdarsdavid) on Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 09:56 pm: Edit

Krieg(TKR) over AdmiralDZZI(KLI). My anchor defense left something to be desired and I ate 90 points plasma.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 09:21 am: Edit

Ok, so 3 games left to go and still about two weeks left! This is a spectacular run of efficiency!

As of press time, the team scores are:

-Team SWA: 25
-Team Avengers: 25
-Team Alien Demon Battalion: 19
-Team Action Cats: 18 (1 game to go)
-Orion Bikini Team: 17
-Team Deception: 17
-Team Colorado: 16 (1 game to go)
-Team The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: 13 (2 games to go)
-Team Plasma Surprise: 9 (2 games to go)
-Team Spontaneous Combustion: 9

So First and Second are soundly SWA and Avengers (indications are that SWA wins the tiebreaker); 3rd and 4th are still up in the air--ADB is at 19, Action Cats is going to be either 19 or 21, Colorado and Good/Bad/Ugly could also both end up at 19. So things are afoot!

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:29 am: Edit

I ran some scenarios, and assuming I got them right...
* Action Cats has clinched a playoff spot, probably the third seed, but could get the fourth seed if Sir_Akira beats The_Rock and some other stuff happens. Action Cats is the only team still in contention that entirely controls their own destiny (excluding SWA and Avengers who have clinched the #1 and #2 seeds).
* Scenarios where the strength of victory tiebreaker fails to determine the fourth playoff spot, or determine the order of the third and fourth seeds, are possible.
* One of the teams on the bubble has actually been mathematically eliminated.
* As it stands now, the most important game remaining is The_Rock vs. Sir_Akira. However, this game could become meaningless depending on the outcome of other games that may be played first. It's also possible that this game, if played last, could determine the #4 seed, with neither of the teams with anything at stake participating in the battle!

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:31 am: Edit

>> Scenarios where the strength of victory tiebreaker fails to determine the fourth playoff spot, or determine the order of the third and fourth seeds, are possible. >>

Damnation. That might mean SUDDEN DEATH!

By Paul Scott (The_Rock) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Action Cats, actually, cannot take anything other than 3rd.

If I win, AC has 21 points and is third.

If I lose, our minimum tiebreaker is 6 points.
ADB has 4.

GBU (winning both) has 4 (If I lose).

Colorado (winning) has 1.

So Colorado cannot advance in any scenario.

The most relevant scenario is:

AC - 3rd
ADB - 4th.

The only way for it to be anything other than that is if I lose AND GBU wins both AND GBU defeats ADB in SUDDEN DIE!

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Paul wrote:
>>Action Cats, actually, cannot take anything other than 3rd. >>

Yah--Sheap was indicating that Action Cats! could get 3rd or 4th. I think the only way that anything wonky happens is if Paul loses his last game (Action Cats! at 19), Colorado wins it's last game (CO at 19), and G/B/U wins its last two games (also 19), making a 4 way tie for 3rd and 4th. But given that this is physically impossible due to them playing each other, we probably shouldn't worry about it :-)

By Paul Scott (The_Rock) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 01:16 pm: Edit

You can get a three way tie for 3rd/4th, but....

AC's minimum Tie breaker is 6.

ADB's tie breaker is 4

GBU's maximum tie breaker is 4; and

Colorado's tie breaker is 1

So even if AC, ADB and one of either GBU or Colorado all end up at 19 points, AC will be third. Further, the only way to end up with a tie at 4th is ADB and GBU and AC all tie at 19 points. Under that scenario, ADB and GBU both end up with 4 tie breaker points and go to SUDDEN DIE!

For that to happen, however:

Mike J has to beat me AND Marcus has to beat Mike K AND Brendan has to beat Mike J. Only under all three of those games turning out exactly as above do we have SUDDEN DIE! for 4th place.

By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 01:23 pm: Edit

So, what you are saying is, we still have a chance? :)

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Action Cats have defeated BanTheFed (0 wins), Lord_Goofy (2 wins), Spaceball (0 wins), ericphillips (0 wins), and me (2 wins), giving them a tiebreaker number of 4, with two remaining opponent games (BanTheFed vs. ScottishEngineer and Akira vs. Tartan_Army). The game between Akira and Tartan_Army is irrelevant for purposes of Action Cats because if The_Rock beats Akira, Action Cats have six wins and if Akira beats The_Rock, Action Cats cannot earn any tiebreaker points.

If Akira beats The_Rock, and BanTheFed loses, AC will finish with 4 tiebreaker points giving them SUDDEN DIE! with ADB for the 3rd or 4th place slot. It is not possible for this to produce a three-way tie because it would require BanTheFed to lose.

By Paul Scott (The_Rock) on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 09:23 pm: Edit

Hah. I see I counted my win over you twice. Sheep is right, there is an additional chance for SUDDEN DIE!

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 05:10 am: Edit

That game may have FELT like two, but it only counts as one in the standings :)

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 07:34 am: Edit

I think next year if we include head to head record as the first tie breaker, then common opponents, then strength of victory, we will reduce the chances for SUDDEN DEATH! No?

Although, now that I don't have to face the prospect of SUDDENLY DYING! SUDDEN DEATH! doesn't seem terrible.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 08:52 am: Edit

Head to Head record only works when you know that every team will be playing every other team. Which we didn't know was going to happen this year (i.e. the format wasn't set until we knew exactly how many teams we have)--with 9 teams or 11 teams, for example, Head to Head tie breaker doesn't work, as not every team plays every other team. Strength of Victory seemed like it *should* work well enough, but that still remains to be seen. I'm not sure what Common Opponents is, tie breaker wise.

Granted, SUDDEN DEATH! is pretty much the same as Head to Head (i.e. in the tie between SWA and Avengers, we played one game team on team, SWA won. If we used Head to Head, SWA wins the tie breaker. If we play SUDDEN DEATH!, whichever side wins, wins, so we might as well pull out the middle man here and just go with Head to Head).

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 10:13 am: Edit

Head to Head could be examined after the Round Robin. There is no need to give it any thought in set up. There may be no head to head matches, in which case you proceed to Common Opponents, which is examining the tied team's record against common opponents, better record breaks the tie. Once again no thought given in set up, it just is what it is. Then if Head to Head and Common Opponents fail, we have strength of schedule.

I am just making conversation, I have no real preference, but if we want to avoid SUDDEN DEATH!, adding a couple more simple tie breakers would help. Personally, I even kind of like SUDDEN DEATH!, as it is a fun to play and joke about. Unless you get thrown to the wolves by your team leader.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 10:20 am: Edit

Yeah, I am a vicious team leader like that.

Ok, so Common Opponents is you look at what guys both teams played, and then see who won most against those guys? Lemme go look at SWA vs Avengers in that light--huh. SWA and Avengers played *none* of the same guys (again, vagaries of the kooky distribution model I invented). So Common Opponents doesn't work here. Gah. Just trying to figure stuff out.

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 11:42 am: Edit

Head to Head would have stopped you before Common Opponents in this case, as Chris lost to John.

In any case, it is fairly common, I would think, to have Common Opponents.

Was thinking you could also do it in any order say with SOV being 1st.

By Mike Johnson (Akira) on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - 07:31 am: Edit

My apologies to both Paul S. and Brendan, but RL has reared its ugly head and it will be at least the second week of July before I can play my games against them. In the interests of not holding up the tournament I'll just resign both games.

Also apologies to my teammates, but we weren't going to make the next round anyway :)

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - 10:11 am: Edit

Noted and thanks for the update!

By Chris Proper (Duke) on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - 10:16 am: Edit

If I read this right it's team The Avengers vs. team Action Cats!

edit: I assume I don't have to fight a civil war with The Rock.

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - 11:00 am: Edit

If Sir_Akira resigns both games, then Action Cats gets third, and ADB gets fourth.

The thing that's good about SoV is that it takes the whole team's performance into consideration. Head-to-head is good when you are playing team vs. team, but in a setup like this one, it only considers one of the three players from each team.

That doesn't mean I think head to head shouldn't be used at all, but I think it should be after SoV.

In the NFL, for common opponents to be used, you have to have a minimum of X games, I think four. Obviously it won't work with zero, but unless you have two or three, it's prone to flukiness and the same limitation as head to head.

So I would say, for this type of schedule, SoV first, common opponents second (minimum three), head to head third. In a schedule like this one it is impossible to tie after head to head, since every team plays every other team once.

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