Archive through August 22, 2012

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development: August 2012: Pick the next SFB module: Archive through August 22, 2012
By Mike Dowd (Duellist_69) on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Preferences:

Y4
C6
X2

By Robert Edward Kalbach (Smilinatthegorn) on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 11:45 pm: Edit

For this release: C6, Omega, or X1B.

For the next round: meaty X2, please!

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:15 am: Edit

Given the time constraints, C6 is the obvious answer. Most pieces are done already, and Petrick can hammer out the GW Carnivons easily enough. Also, even though many of the ship designs may not be known or fully defined, the list of ships to use should be very easy to formulate, which will allow the counters (the current bottleneck) to be addressed and printed. Heck, even the counter outlines should be easy enough to do. This is easily the most expedient solution that will let the counters be addressed fastest.

The other plus (for me) is that it is one of the only two listed that I am even interested in buying.

While this might be kinda surprising to hear from me, I would much rather Y4 be pushed back so it can be done well. Though I am quite sure it could easily be filled with plenty of interesting ships, the options for those ships are all over the place. Include more Fed nationals? Include conjectural also-rans (Peladine, Borak)? Include something new? Include something conjectural? Who knows. And without very definite decisions on those questions, the counters are a total mystery. Selecting Y4 would just slow everything down significantly. So I vote to wait on Y4.

Failing C6, the other vote I give is for Omega. While Omega is, quite frankly, not my cup of tea, there are plenty who do like it, and framing up an Omega module appears to be very straight forward, which would allow the counter lineup to be quickly defined and selected.

Put together, my preferences for the next project are:
C6
Omega

EDIT: When I refer to "Omega", I don't really care which of the six (or eight) options are taken. Just take one that is reasonably well defined so that the counter lineup to be quickly defined.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:56 am: Edit

First choice: C6. This has a great appeal to me because of the mix of new empires.

Second choice: Omega. The "Three modules with new empires: 1 (Paravian, Nucian, Vulpa), 2 (Jindarian, Loriyill, Hiver unihive), 3 (Echarri, Scon, Zosman)." is very interesting as well. Paravians for the Alpha and Omega sectors.

By Dal Downing (3deez) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 01:01 am: Edit

Okay my first wish would be another C6 only because it could get most of the design work for FC Fallen Empires done at the same time making it a 2fer. Plus if we play it right it would give Sandrine a crack at a hardly developed Empire to work on.

After that I would like to see Y4 or a Omega Great War supplement.

Next rung down would be R13 or X1B2.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 01:26 am: Edit

Xander:

Captain's Log #19 had a look at the Core Worlds; a set of provisional ships and empires set to exist within the Milky Way's core region.

I don't know if anything could be made of one (or more) of those empires; do any of them exist in the SFU historically, or are they considered to be a set of simulator ships?

-----

Also, as far as the trading fleet idea goes, the Bolosco and Qixa seen to cover that kind of dynamic already. (The Qixa trading ships are designed to run rather than fight; whereas the slower, yet tougher Bolosco hulls are more capable of handling themselves should they get into a scrape. Plus the Bolosco, unlike the Qixa, are happy to offer their services as mercenaries to several other Omega powers; at least prior to the fall of their home space to the Souldra in Y191.)

Although, the R-section for the Bolosco implies that there are other exile fleets out there in the broader universe; and that only one group ouf of who-knows-how-many made their way into the Omega Octant.

Perhaps another set of Guildships might show up in another part of the Milky Way at some point; or, rather, in a place like the Lesser Magellanic Cloud or Triangulum Galaxy?

-----

I do like the idea of formally publishing the Juggernaut Empire.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 03:27 am: Edit

IIRC, the CL#19 ships were Omega. Is that the 'Core Worlds' you refer to, 'corewards' from the Omega area? (Books are boxed up at moment, cannot check)

I guess the core is the core, but I was thinking something that could bleed over into the alpha sector some, and Omega generally doesn't do that.

Speculation: of all things, that might make the most interesting addition for a C6, then. I imagine one of the reasons for the less stellar sales of the Omega modules is that many gamers (for example, my group back in Ohio and my group here in Oregon) "only buy alpha sector". Pretty much any race, or any period, but it has to in some way relate to the 'Star Trek they know' (content interacting with the Federation, Klingons, or Romulans), so while even the Nicozians and Borak were of potential interest...the Omega sector never has been.

If C6 could add some coreward races that interacted with both Alpha and Omega sectors, maybe allowing for some more crossover ships and scenarios...I would imagine that would perk up interest in Omega, overall.

(As to the GW Carnivon idea - would still suggest, if going down that road, to make it something more than 'just another empire that happens to suddenly exist in this one F&E hex that we forgot to mention before'. Personal preference is the idea of a band of roving traders, in competition with the Orions and...to a lesser extent...Jindarians for resources and hidden bases, and in perhaps-not-entirely-above-board-but-certainly-not-criminal competition with regular civilian commercial activity. Use their ships to form the core of a kind of trading guild like the Hanseatic League...essentially becoming the SFU version of the Ferengi, only not so stupidly written and more depth than 2d/cardboard motivations.)

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 03:54 am: Edit

Taking a step back on the C6 thing - while I'm conceptually onboard with the idea that 'more races is a good thing'...on more thought, I just don't think it would work as written above.

Consider...


Quote:

C6 (Borak, Peladine, Paravian, Carnivon, Nicozian)




So we've got the Borak, who definitely have some "real" ships (their W-era and Y-era ships), but are also mostly simulator (everything GW-era and X-era). Then the GW-period Carnivon survivors - a 'real' race. Then the Peladine - almost completely simulator except for a single 'real' ship. Then the Nicozian - an entirely 'real' race. Then the GW-era Paravians - 100% simulator.

I mean...who is going to buy a product 50% simulator races and ships and 50% 'real' ships?

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 07:05 am: Edit

Well, the difference for me is these Sim empires are built like real empires, and not like the trick or joke empires in C4. They are way more suitable for campaign play, or things like battle force in cap log.

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 07:11 am: Edit

Part of that is I know what a Borak (species) looks like, and I know what a Carny or Paravian or Phenal/Ranel look like. There is no Frax/Flivver/Canad'ien species, they are designed only as ships, to me that is much less interesting. C6 has history, C4 does not.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 07:16 am: Edit


Quote:

Then the GW-period Carnivon survivors - a 'real' race.




I was under the impression that they'd be a "conjectural" empire, a sort of "If the Carnivons made it into the WYN cluster, or survived off map, this is what they'd look like" just like the GW Borak, Peladine, and GW Paravians. While the Nicozians are real, they're not really an empire so much as a random nuisance, like monsters are.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 08:18 am: Edit

me!

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 08:39 am: Edit

Well, the Frax do have some pseudo-history, including a "homeland" in the Kaltic Freestates (the provinces bordering the Kzintis) and even featured in the Olivette Roche trivideo You Do Not Have To Die. They have blue skin and are humanoid (according to that story).

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 09:43 am: Edit

I'm all for the Carnivons being a real empire, even if a small one.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:32 am: Edit

Terry, remember that Olivette wrote that story and what makes a good trivideo is not necessarily accurate or historical ...

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:38 am: Edit

Xander:

While there are 10 Omega SSDs in CL19 (all of which were later published in Module Omega 2), the Core Worlds are not among them.

The Core Worlds, credited to Sean Young, is stated to be a setting based in the galactic core; with a sample ship offered for two local powers, the Andrium Kingdom and the Oromigahd Empire. More ships were said to be available online; but the website address listed is no longer valid.

(Another web-based setting, the Pyxon Galaxy, is also glanced at in CL19; created by Pierre Adams, the issue shows a ship each for two of its empires, the Lacertan Protectorate and the SIA. Actually, the SIA CA is quite an asymmetric design; one which suits the inclinations of the arthropods who fly it, I suppose. However, it seems that the website that setting was hosted on is also out of commission.)

In both cases, it doesn't seem that either setting is considered to be officially part of the broader SFU; the idea of including them in CL19 was more to help show how SFB's online presence had expanded despite the onset of the Interregnum. So, it may well turn out that the core of the Milky Way might have some other set of locals inhabiting it; if any, that is.

(Although, aren't the Masters said to be based there?)

-----

As for the Carnivons, the idea of a Stellar Shadows version of them hiding in the WYN Cluster could be interesting; though if there was room in the galaxy for the survivors of The Last Command's refugee fleet to establish a new home, it might be better left to the Sargasso Storm Octant, where they could perhaps echo the role that the Paravians would go on to play over in Omega.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:39 am: Edit

The Carnivons (in the GW era, anyway) have to be conjectural, as either location given (WYN cluster; F&E hex 0101) wouldn't work with established history. They would be just as conjectural as any of the Paravian GW-era scenarios.

The main difference between C6 and C4 (besides the Nicozians) is what Nick points out. C4 were all "trick" empires with some piece of "impossible" technology that made them work. C6 are all based on "historical" empires that get their own "what-if" scenario to see what they would be like if they had been allowed to develop, instead of getting crush prematurely. Another huge difference is that with C4 (outside the Frax) the empires all existed in a vacuum. They had no location, no history, no race, no context. The C6 empires all have a history, a location, a story, a context in which they can exist.

So, yes, simulator or not, I find the contents of C6 to be compelling enough to want to buy it. Like I said before, of the list given, only two are interesting enough to me to consider buying them. C6 is definitely one of them.

(And C6 should definitely include the GW-era Carnivons. I think Petrick definitely deserves to finally get to work on them so we can see what his demented mind will come up with.)

By Jeff Johnson (Jeffro) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:49 am: Edit

If C6 includes a Juggernaut empire, I think it'd be a winner. The Peladine would be something I'd look forward to as well. (I don't think there are counters for either of these races, eh?)

I have Y1 but I haven't ever played the Carnivons or the Paravians. If I had conjectural General War and Middle Years ships for them, I'd be much more likely to have them hit the table.

I don't know enough about the other races mentioned to comment on them.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:52 am: Edit

There are some provisional Peladine counters on Special Countersheet #1, along with some other playtest units (such as most of the current crop of Triangulum ships).

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 11:04 am: Edit

I'm all about Peladine.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 11:29 am: Edit

I really want X2 but that is not going to happen. So for this round:

1. Omega: I would like to see at least a few of the original Omega empires receive the units required to become campaign playable. Its been 12 years already.

2. Xorkaleans. Combine them with the Nicozians into F3 or whatever.

C6 is the logical choice however I can't get excited when most of the material for it was published within the last year (Peladine, Borak, Nicozian). Just seems too soon (and people get upset when a ship in a recent Cap Log appears in an R-module). GW Carnivons would be cool.

I hope to not see another R-module for along time as the last one seemed to be stretching for ideas (heavy war cruisers, battle frigate variants, obvious variants for obscure classes).

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 11:40 am: Edit

I think C6 would be best. Then we could have some material for what if scenarios for F&E using these in a Captain's Log at some future date.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 11:41 am: Edit

It doesn't make sense to me that Xorkaeliens would be published with anything but X2 (that's their time) unless it was just to publish the few raiders. But then, wouldn't that possibly paint things into a development corner?

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 11:53 am: Edit

I want to see the Xorks too, but that is why I listed X2 as my second choice after C6, I assume the X2 stuff needs to be developed with/before the Xorks.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:02 pm: Edit

I posted about this in the Triangulum development topic; but Nick Samaras' point about campaign compatibility is a good one. (Spreading things too thinly has caused problems for Omega; while the more concentrated approach in Module C5 has left the LMC in a much better position, in terms of supporting campaigns in that island galaxy.)

Even if the "v2" Triangulum file includes eight empires' worth of ships, publishing them all in one go might leave each of them with a shortage of units; to say nothing of the added time it would take to try and polish any unique technologies for the four "new" powers (relative to the rules for the quartet of empires we know about already).

So, while M33 is a long shot at best, it might be more manageable if only one of the four "new" empires was added in for now; and the five fleets that would then constitute the first wave be given enough variants, bases and transports to be at least minimally campaign compatible.

(That way, the other "new" empires could be left to highlight a second book; while more ships for the first five could then be added alongside them.)

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