When I first saw a Peladine years ago, my immediate reaction was "Scream and leap tractor monster". There is very little else it can do well. It even has 2 shuttle bays to make the anchor more extreme.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 16, 2013 - 09:43 pm: Edit

Does it have two shuttle bays? I thought it only had 1. I mean, it is certainly possible I'm wrong.

Yeah, it can't really do much else successfully. And the problem with only being able to anchor is that it is reasonably easy to foil that, and the "Plan B" of the ship generally isn't going to go that well.

By Brian Evans (Romwe) on Monday, June 17, 2013 - 10:04 am: Edit

Barry and I chatted briefly after our game yesterday about the Maesron. My gut feeling after flying against it, was that the missiles need to be tweaked up a bit. Either getting to launch 2/turn, or making them harder to deal with. If there was a way to let them launch 2/turn, that's probably what I would go with and keep the 2 missile options the same.

From a strategy perspective, it looks to me like r5 is the sweet spot. It does reasonable, and predictable damage there. More than most other ships I think. It then needs to get out of dodge for a turn so it can rearm. I'd probably go for r5, late in the turn, followed by an HET. If centerline, that's close to 60pts of damage. If on the oblique, then it's about the same, but in 2 volleys. It also fights out the rear arcs better than most, so not totally useless on the run turn. Launch a missile end of turn, followed by one early the next and it gives the pursuer 2 missiles to deal with. I'm sure this is really tough to pull off, but might be worth a try.

By Mike Kenyon (Mikek) on Monday, June 17, 2013 - 12:05 pm: Edit

Having now played 4 games in the Maesron, I tend to agree with everything that Brian has said. The challenge is that once you've fired are R5, getting out of dodge is easier said than done.

I have found that the Phaser compliment, while individually weak (especially from range) does hit a whole lot and there are just an endless sea of the things and in all directions. It does serve to make people really question getting to very, very close range on you and even from moderate range you can make the opposing captain spill his coffee. Spent a lot of time running away from an opponent and continuing to hit them through the down shields (or trying).

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, June 17, 2013 - 03:57 pm: Edit

At R5, you are doing, what, 10 per TG (assuming they hit, which is likely at 1-5) and 2.5 per PW1 (of which 6 are probably in arc), so let's say 30+15=45 at R5, plus another upwards of 15 on the next impulse if you can get the other TG and 2xPW1 in arc. Which is a lot of damage at R5. But likely difficult to arrange, and if you can turn to get the other 3 guns in arc, your opponent can probably turn an up shield in the way.

AT R4, the PW1s go up a point each, which gets you up to 51 damage non-centerlined. Which is pretty good. But at R4, most opponents are getting a better jump in damage than you are.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Monday, June 17, 2013 - 07:35 pm: Edit

My Peladine SSD is dated 2001 so it might not be the current version, but it has 2 bays. Almost all Peladine ships have 2 bays, and most have balcony and track, not that that matters here. Might be worth checking if the SFBOL version agrees, and (if not) which is right.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, June 17, 2013 - 08:40 pm: Edit

Rather than using C-racks, might it be an idea to give the Mæsron ship a "Vulpa-esque" refit, which swaps out the probe launcher on the aft firing platform with a third TM-rack?

Historically, the Vulpa faction in the Masron Civil War fielded the CAF variant of the heavy cruiser. That ship replaces the two FA TGs with PW-1s, and removed the probe launcher to make room for a third missile rack.

Perhaps a similar mindset could shape this ship, if needs be.

(Unless it would be better to see what the post-Collapse Vulpa might look like when the time comes, and leave the Mæsron TCA as representative of the "New Alliance" instead.)

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Two things to address in this post... The Trobrin and the Maesron.

Just finished a playtest game with Ken Rotar. He was in the Trobrin and I was in the Klingon...

Turn 1... I decided to only load up with small drones. No large ones, since the Trobrin uses the same amount of phasers to kill a small drone and a large one and I was planning on using the drones as phaser soak.

I put two fast drones in the pack. That way, those two would hit earlier on and not give him a juicy weasel target of six drones.

I had a suicide shuttle warming in the bay and started a weasel, for turn two.

Did a 21/26 split and headed down the middle. Shifted over to the right to give the drones from the pack time to catch up a bit. Also loaded only standards in the disruptors.

Around impulse 21 or so, he launched an Implosion Torp, turned out later it was the heavy.

A few impulses later, I got to range 6 and fired the disruptors hitting his #6 for 9 points of damage. At that point, the torp was range three from me, so I burned all my labs and did ID it as the heavy.

Turned off, at which point he fired his LS IB rolling a 12 and missing. He did a HET and fired off the other IB and lots of phasers on my #4 shield. Between the IB and the phasers, he punched the shield and did four or five in. He got a P3 and a disruptor.

However, in the same impulse, I fired every phaser I could 5 P1, 2 P2, and 2 P3 at the implosion torp at range 2. Did 43 points of damage to the torp so that when it hit on impulse 2.1, it was out of power, barely.

Turn 2, He was running and I was running after him. I was prevented from closing a bit, because he was on my down #4 shield, and I didn't want to let him get range 16, where he could have fired enough PR-1 to get through battery general. As it was, he fired two of them at range 17, doing a point of damage which I soaked on battery general.

I launched two drones at him early in the turn, a dogfight and a regular drone... He did manage to run out the dogfight drone. But turn two was mostly for me to recharge batteries and phasers and try to close up with him.

On Impulse 2.31 he launched a light torp at me from his RS launcher and than turned left.

Turn 3, I started off launching two 32 speed drones at him... My last two fasties. I overloaded two disruptors... At this point, I was pushing him towards the Northeast corner of the board, so I started slow, speed 12... That gave the light torp a chance to run itself out as it came towards me. I burned a P1 and a P3 on it at the last moment and let it impact on the #2 shield for a single point of damage. I than accelerated up to speed 23 for the rest of the turn.

On impulse 3.25 I got to range 4 of him and launched three drones at him. Two Type Is and my last dogfight drone.

I batteried up an OL disruptor and let go with 3 UIM OL and 4 phasers... My dice were hot... All three disruptors hit, and my phaser dice were 1,1,1,4...Did about 22 in.

Continued to close to range one and he accelerated. I grabbed him in a tractor, and I pushed him into the wall stopping him.

He managed to tractor one of my drones, and used a suicide shuttle on one of the others letting the dogfight drone impact on the down shield.

I let go with a suicide shuttle of my own doing 18 damage to his #4 shield.

The next impulse, if I had continued straight into the wall, he would have been directly behind me at range 0 and I would have been in arc of his remaining IB lots of PRs and the heavy torp. So, I turned to direction B and than slipped into the wall. The following turn impulse one, would have been range one with him directly behind me.

At that point I had repaired all my phasers so he was looking at the klingon phaser hose on impulse 4.1 at range one. He probably could have hit me hard with PRs and phasers. But a klingon phaser hose at that point would have gutted him. So he conceded.

Ken's comments were that this ship sucks.... and I tend to agree with him.

Here are our proposals for modifying the ship..

1. Add a third IB... FH arc.
2. Remove the Heavy Implosion Torp.
3. Upgrade the two light Implosion Torps to Mediums.
4. Increase the batteries from four to six.
5. Increase the power from 33 to 35

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 08:02 pm: Edit

One possibility for the Maesron which I had suggested about three years ago was to give the side Tachyon Guns the same arc extension of the FA tachyon Guns.

Since the FA tachyon guns can fire down the rear hex row.

I proposed that the LF+L tachyon gun could also fire down the Right Rear Hex row and the RF+R tachyon gun could also fire down the Left Rear Hex row.

Also, a C rack might help the ship a bit.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 08:33 pm: Edit

I would think that modifying a Trobrin TCA like that would result in something that wasn't really Trobrin.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 10:20 pm: Edit

I recall the current Trobrin as not actually being a MC 1 heavy cruiser, and instead being based on a 2/3 or 3/4 move cost. (Which, in so doing, would put it in a weight class with no historical counterpart in the Trobrin fleet at present.)

Was the standard CA simply too powerful a base template to try and turn into a viable TCA?


I'm not sure about that idea regarding the port and starboard TGs on the Mæsron.

(I'm guessing there's no traction in the concept of taking a leaf from the Vulpa playbook and swapping out the probe launcher for a third TM rack, then?)

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 09:05 am: Edit

Originally I started with the stock Trobrin CA for the TCA....

It took one battle to determine that it was way overpowered.

So, it was cut back.... Cut back a lot.

Reduced it to a CL which the Trobrins don't really have.

Went to 2/3 move with 33 + 4 power.

Reduced the side Implosion Torps from mediums to lights.
Reduced the armor to 8 and the hull quite a bit.

I did add a pair of PR-3 FX because it really needed it.
Now it is far too weak and can't really win if it ever misses with a single IB.
So, the belief is that it needs the following.
1) More power, because currently after the first firing pass, it's too slow to run away long enough to get the weapons recharged.
2) Another IB, because the current setup doesn't have enough direct fire power. Note that even with three IB the crunch power is way below a Fed unless you can achieve a front centerline.
3) More batteries, because three turn arming weapons just don't work, so it now has enough batts to fast load two of the IB in a single turn.

However giving it all that was too much with the current arrangement of Implosion Torps. So the Heavy Implosion Torp was removed and the side light Torps were upgraded to mediums.

This will still take playtest to see if its viable.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 09:08 am: Edit

Ah, nevermind then. Didn't realize you made up a new ship class just for the tournament.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 09:09 am: Edit

I'm not against adding a third tachyon missile launcher. But, it's getting back to the old original problem we had with the tachyon missiles. If they are tough enough to survive a drone hit, then anybody without drones is in trouble.

However SPP shot down the idea of new module types for the so called ultimate modular missile.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 09:19 am: Edit

Wrong thread.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 09:44 am: Edit

Yeah, I don't know that messing with the Tachyon Missiles themselves is the way to go with that ship--there is a lot of room for crazy wiggling with those things, and it just seems like that way is madness.

So the TM C-Racks are, what--they can fire 1 missile per turn each (instead of 1 per 2 racks per turn), but only have 3 missiles each in total? Why not give that a try in playtest games for a bit (not in WL, but in just messing around games)?

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 04:33 pm: Edit

So I played an Omega vs Alpha game today:

I was the current Alunda (10xBB/4xPW/36 static power) and Andy/Droid was the NTC.

T1: I moved 16 all turn, held a suicide shuttle, and dumped a lot of power into my BB capacitor. Andy moved 16/21/26 with 4xOL armed. I just corner dodge and come in late in the turn. Andy comes in, and doesn't launch a web. Impulse 32, we are at about R11, my #2 facing his #1. I burn 4 battery power into more capacitor (filling the capacitor to 30 power, which gives me 15 at the start of T2).

T2: I move 16/31/16 (21 moves) and put 11 power into the capacitor (up to 26 power), holding the SS. Andy moves 21/26/15 something. Impulse 1, I launch 4xWhip Torps out of my Plasma Whips. We close in. Still no web. We get to R4, still my #2 off his #1, 1 hex off centerline. We both shoot. I fire 4x 4 point heavy BBs and 4x 1 point BBs. He blasts me with 4xOL, the fist, 5xP1. I roll feebly, hitting with only 1 of the heavy BBs, doing a total of 23 to his #1. He rolls almost as feebly, missing with 2 of 4 OLs and the fist (but rolls hot on phasers). I take 6 internals through my #2 after I burn 4 more batteries on reinforcement (having used the 5th point for the WTs), but all I lose are some hull and a control space. He turns off and I turn in to get behind him. He phasers up my WTs which hit his #4 for 11 damage, followed by a couple more BBs from my tail, which take down his #4 and do 3 internals. I try to move off, but he HETs and follows me. We both launch shuttles (I launch 2, he launches all 4 by the end of the turn). My 2 shuttles score a few more internals through his down #4 with their PWs before he kills them. There is turning and chasing, and we end at R3, his #1 centerlined on my #4. He still has 4 shuttles on the map.

T3: half of my BBs are cooling this turn, but I have 5 ready to fire in arc. For the first time ever, I'm in a situation where using the Plasma Cloud Generator would be useful--I could drop a hex of space squid ink, forcing both of us to fire with a -1 natural EW shift and make us fire as if it were R4 instead of R3 (which hinders the Tholian a bit but has no effect on my guns). But given that I missed badly last time I shot, I don't want the -1 shift, so I don't. But I almost did! In any case, I put 17 power into my capacitor and more 16 till 3 and then 9 the rest of the turn. Andy moves 0 and TACs with loaded everything. Impulse 1, we both fire--I hit with 3 of my 4 heavy BBs and a 1 pointer for 37 damage on his 7 box #1 (and 3 reinforcement?). He hits me with the fist, 2xOL, 5xP1s (he saved a couple. Or maybe didn't have them armed? I don't remember). I take about 20 internals, losing all 3 of my batteries (which is problematic for the Alunda, as the batteries are strong), a couple guns, and a PW. He takes about 27 internals, losing P3s, a disruptor, and power. I turn off and keep the range open, scoring a couple more in with a R4 Plasma Whip strike through his down #1. I just run from his shuttles the rest of the turn. We end at about R9. At the end of the turn, I get 4 hull back, as I regenerate!

T4: I go 14 all turn, put 11 or 12 power into the capacitor, and keep fixing things (this turn, a battery, 2 more hull, and I start fixing the broken PW), and pre-allocate a HET (Alundas have no reserve warp, even when the batteries aren't broken). Andy moves 9/10/9 with guns armed. I come around, kill all of his shuttles by the end of the turn with 2 point, R2 BBs (hit on a 10 for 6 damage) and my plasma whips. He takes down my #5 and does 3 internals with most of his guns at R5. I turn in and angle to get on his down #4 with the couple BBs I have left to fire, but his wiggly turn mode prevents that. We end at about R5, my up #3 to his #5. I get 2 more hull and a battery back. He gets a couple P3s back.

We call it here as we both had to go. I'm probably a bit ahead--I have 3 down shields (#2, #4, #5), but more power and still a couple shuttles on board (one of which is still a SS) and most of my guns (I'm down, like, 3 of 10 BBs and 1 of 4 PWs). On T5, I probably HET my up #1 at him and go for a close BB strike, hopefully on a down shield. But the Tholian still has a lot of guns (3x disr, WC, 5 or 6 P1s, 3 or 4 P3s) and while he is down 11 or so power, is still dangerous.

The Alunda seemed totally fine in this fight--the 10xBB (as opposed to the 12 it had long ago) and 4xPW seems totally reasonable against a non drone using Alpha opponent. Against drones, the Alunda seems to have a lot of trouble, however (but that isn't this game :-)

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 08:07 pm: Edit

On 3.1 the right side p-1s weren't cycled as they had killed yer shuttles on 2.28. Yer shuttles.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 08:10 pm: Edit

Ah, ok. Yeah, that.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Is there a list of the current mods to the Omegan TCs anywhere? If not could a sticky be made at the top of this topic?

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 08:51 pm: Edit

The TC SSDs on SFBOL are all the mostly current ones. I don't think any of them are changed anywhere that aren't updated on SFBOL.

I don't know that there are copies of the SSDs anywhere else that are remotely current (I know there were the original ones that Ken Burnside out together, like, 10+ years ago, but other than that, I don't think there *are* any Omega TCs other than the ones on SFBOL). All the changes are done by, more or less, Barry when he gets some sort of consensus and then he just posts the changes.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Peter,
They are available on e23 in Starfleet Times #45.

Pity there are only up to date on SFBOL, I can not really afford it right now.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 09:32 pm: Edit

I don't think those are really official SSDs, just playtest, sort of like house rules or something. I could be wrong.

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 09:11 am: Edit

I was like Kirk making first contact with an alien ship with strange technology! Whose captain was both bent on my destruction and strangely helpful, as I knew nothing about his technology!
Anyway.. I had fun, which pleasantly surprised me. I previously had zero interest in these weirdo ships, but now I do have interest in these weirdo ships. And I am stodgy and stubborn.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 05:16 pm: Edit

David wrote:
>>Peter,
They are available on e23 in Starfleet Times #45.>>

Oh, heh, yeah, those are, like, 15+ years out of date, and likely the ones that were out as a test before Omega 1 was even published (when they were first testing/rolling out Omega, Ken Burnside, I'm pretty sure, put together Omega TCs for folks to play and try out the new rules at Origins). The were all put together before the rules were totally finalized and aren't really particularly balanced. I mean, they'll play out as something, but I don't think that those were balanced in any manner other than just pure eyeballing.

The current crop of Omega TCs is the result of mostly Barry Kirk messing around with them for years now with a few random people helping him out. I don't know that they exist anywhere other than on SFBOL. Of them, maybe 8-10 of them have been played a lot and tweaked and are more or less balanced ships. The other 5 or 6 or so are just total shots in the dark that have seen not much play at this point.