Archive through July 20, 2013

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Star Fleet Battles Online: Tournaments: SFBOL World League 2: Archive through July 20, 2013
By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 08:17 pm: Edit

ScottishEngineer and Old_School are finishing up 7:30 Eastern on Th.

By Ron Brimeyer (Captainron) on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 08:29 pm: Edit

If Sheap reappears, I have the whole weekend free.

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 10:44 am: Edit

We are the fastest and worstest team in the history of WL.

By Brett W Johnson (Bjohnson) on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 09:09 pm: Edit

The WBS is a nice ship. No major strengths, but an extremely well balanced design with no real weaknesses and no bad RPS match-ups.

That being the case it should be (and historically has been?) a good pick to win in tournament play.

Mathematically a ship which has a 50-50 is more likely to win than a ship that has an even distribution of advantaged and disadvantaged matches.
Example - 2 matches
A) 50-50, 50-50: chance to win both = 0.5*0.5 = 0.25
B) 25-75, 75-25: chance to win both = 0.25*0.75 = 0.1875

Fun with math...

By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 10:20 pm: Edit

Moose over DaveC in 7 turns. Dave conceded on 7.22 when a second Het to avoid fire on a 1 box shield resulted in a breakdown. Dave would have eaten my last 2 drones (both heavies) in a down shield before he was able to fire again. Good game Dave.

By Drew Klenotic (Tillek) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 09:51 am: Edit

Have my game with PimpDaddy at 7pm tonight, and with BS on Saturday 9pm (all times eastern)... but so far no response yet from MaxSpeed.

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 11:49 am: Edit

MaxSpeed is out till Sunday night, I have night 3 of our game scheduled with him on Monday which, as it's after the deadline, we might end up playing for giggles.

By David Cheng (Davec) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Agent of Change (WYN Shark 11)
vs
DaveC (Hydran)

Tonight, 6:30 PM EDT

By Drew Klenotic (Tillek) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 07:05 pm: Edit

Looks like the PimpDaddy/Klenotic game will be delayed a bit due to the extreme heat. Probably closer to 8pm Eastern.

By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Old_School over ScottishEngineer

Well, in all honesty Mike probably deserved to win. However, I had crazy good dice on T5, did wicked Mizia through the down front shields of the Maesron. GG Mike, let's do it again sometime. Sorry about the T5 dice!

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 07:32 pm: Edit

Old_School (LDR) over ScottishEngineer (MAE) in 5

We had stopped at the end of T4 with him on my tail at R11, but the better part of my FA weapons coming up and him down in internals. My 6-1-2 were down (but near no internals), while his 6 was down and everything else was hurt. My original plan was put on hold. I had blown my HET bonus early and decided I didn't want to have the game come down to a HET die, so I dragged it out as long as I could and turned into him. I got him splined on the FA, but at R8. That's good for me, but not NEARLY as good as R7, which is what I was hoping for. I took down most of the remaining #1, and over the next 8 impulses, he largely gutted my ship. I did manage to get a nice return volley in late, but only because he gave me the down shield to bring the second gat to bear.

I ended up in the exchange with 3 P1s left and no other weaponry, to his 3 heavies, 4p1 and 2pG.

I conceded at that point.

By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 08:03 pm: Edit

An observation I made during my game with Mike - those Armor 12/Damage 8 Tachyon Missiles are more effective/annoying than I thought originally. If you have drones, then sure it's easy, a type-I drone will take care of it. If you don't have drones, it takes pretty much 4xP3, or most of an ESG. Just an interesting observation. During our battle, even with Gats and ESGs, several times I found myself thinking, maybe the most efficient way to deal with those suckers is to let them hit my ship. :)

By Ron Brimeyer (Captainron) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 10:06 pm: Edit

If Sheap does not reappear and I forfeit does he get 3 points?

By Drew Klenotic (Tillek) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 11:04 pm: Edit

I got whooped by a bug tonight. The guy actually WWed a FED! It kept one 16 pointer from hitting him and nailed me in the phasers (my old weapons officer must have been on the phasers). I took a gamble later in the game on a HET/OL combo but only hit 1 for 4 on the photons and only had 4 phasers left (again, the moron weapons officer).

Great game Pimp_Daddy_Sackett!

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Ken,

That's what we hope for. :) I started my first game with an even distribution of missiles and as the tournament went on, I kept sliding more and more to the 12/8s. The 10/12s are definately more easily dealt with then the armored model.

By Brett W Johnson (Bjohnson) on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 07:15 am: Edit

agent_of_change (WBS(11)) vs DaveC (HYD)

Battle of the unorthodox tactics...
I close on a Hydran, while Dave doesn't power his hellbores.

Battle lasts 1 turn + a couple impulses...

I plot 17/31, Dave plots 20.

My cunning plan to stay at long range and nibble at fighters fails miserably when Dave refuses to launch them.

Since only a crazy man closes with a Hydran, I proceed to close to range 1. At range 1 we both unload...

I encounter a spectacular brick on his #6, while Dave has to chew thru a measly 4 reinforcement.

The fact that Dave didn't load his HBs made his brick stronger, but his firepower weaker.

Lady luck shows me (yet again) that she does not favor me playing direct fire ships, causing me to miss with both OL Disr, while allowing me to hit with the STDs.

The following turn, Dave takes his Mizia shot w/ 2 P1s.

Net result:

Dave is down 1 P1 - roughly 12 internals. #6 gone, #1 at 18 (forgot to kill a drone).

Brett is down 3 P3s and 2 DISR - roughly 25 internals. #6 gone.

Lady luck re-emphasizes her displeasure with me as my (real life) power dies. My batteries (UPS) keep me alive long enough to say good night to Dave. Concession to Dave...

Dave triumphs and Brett is left to ponder...

By Brian Evans (Romwe) on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 09:18 am: Edit

Ken said:


Quote:

I found myself thinking, maybe the most efficient way to deal with those suckers is to let them hit my ship.




I didn't just think about it, I let it happen.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 09:31 am: Edit

So with a flurry of action, we are at 34/45 games done (i.e. only 11 to go!) with about 3 days left!

Please everyone check over the results tree and make sure all your games are posted, as it isn't at all impossible that I missed something.

Current Team Statuses:
-Team LKHLKJBIHKJHHHJ: 25 points, all games done.
-Team ADB: 18 points, 8/9 games done.
-Team Illegal Aliens: 14 points, 8/9 games done.
-Orion Bikini Team: 14 points, 6/9 games done (one is vs MIA Sheap, I don't think Zimdars is getting his last two done due to travel or something).
-Team 3 Wild and Crazy Guys: 10 points, 6/9 games done.
-Team Iron Mans 3: 13 points, all games done.
-Team 3 Stooges: 10 points, 4/9 games done.
-Team SWA: 7 points, 5/9 games done (Sheap apparently MIA).
-Team Icemen: 12 points, 6/9 games done.
-Team Torp Triad: 12 points, 6/9 games done.

So conveniently, there are currently 4 teams in the Top 4. Things can change a bit by Monday, but it looks pretty solid that the current top 2 are in and 3 and 4 could certainly shuffle. Sheap is going to count as 0 for him, 3 for his opponents in all games (sorry, Ron!); I'm pretty sure Zimdars respectfully resigned his last two games (someone please confirm), putting Bikini Team at 19 essentially at this point.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 09:35 am: Edit

Ken wrote:
>>Just an interesting observation. During our battle, even with Gats and ESGs, several times I found myself thinking, maybe the most efficient way to deal with those suckers is to let them hit my ship. >>

Suicide Shuttles, baby!

In Omega on Omega games, the Tachyon Missiles tend to be a lot more significant, due to the lack of drones in general--to deal with a TM, you either need to shoot it down with 3-4 phasers, fire something significant at it (a plasma torp on the ships that have those, but as they tend to either have small warheads or really big ones, it is a bad trade either way), use multiple points of tractor power, or Suicide Shuttles. Which generally turn out to be the best option, assuming that movement doesn't make it not work and your opponent can't shot down your shuttle.

By Brett W Johnson (Bjohnson) on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Barry Kirk (BaldnForty) and I started our game a couple weeks ago and plan to finish on Sunday morning.

If I lose our team will have 15 pts, if I win 17 pts.

At moment I expect him to win, but we shall see.

I concur with the Maesron comments... The Maesron missile that takes more damage to kill is far better than the other one. Two key reasons:
1) the extra damage to kill it will sometimes translate to it hitting when the other would be destroyed. 8 damage is a lot more than 0.
2) takes an extra P3 to kill (typically)

If I ever played a Maesron, I would probably take *1* of the higher damage missile on the off chance I faced an opponent w/ no weapons/tractors/WW/etc and had a sure hit.

They are ridiculously easy to kill with drones and exceedingly difficult with everything else.

Not sure they are broken, but my first impression is reduce the amount of damage they can take and possibly standardize on a single variant to reduce the disadvantage non-drone ships have facing them.

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Not sure that they're broken at all ... Here's my logic ...

I commpare the Maesron fairly similarly to the WBS(BB), a ship that's generally deemed not ever overly advantaged but without holes. TG is possibly a HAIR better than a disruptor, but the arcs are far worse on the Maesron. While it has more offensive phasers, they're worse at the traditional phaser ranges and slightly better at medium ranges (when the heavy weapons are worse). Also, it has less than half the defensive phaser count of the WBS. Again, the arcs are far worse. Non-weapon systems compare fairly evenly.

Then you get to the racks. You're getting 4 drones out per turn compared to 1 TM. There's a case to be made that you can reasonably get 2 (MAYBE 3, if you launch on a break from opposite corners of the board) TMs out at a time, you've got a lot more tactical flexibilty with 4 drones than you do with 1 TM. Yes, they are MUCH harder to get rid of for a non-drone user, but that's more of a perk for drone users than a disadvantage for the rest of the world. They do less damage than 4 Type-Is to an ESG, you can take it out with a single SS, rather than 4, uses up only one tractor rather than four and even with the +1 anti-tractor still tractor holds for half what the equivalent drone wave would and does the same if not less damage.

So far I've seen pretty much every tactic for dealing with them, including letting it hit. And I haven't seen one that I haven't also seen employed on the "less difficult" drone. I'll grant you, it's not common to use an SS on a drone, but saw it done twice in the last week, admittedly on the same impulse.

As for the allotment, I have come to pretty much the same point that you were at Brett. Last match I started, I had one 12/10 and the rest 8/12s, per rack. Let me throw one out early to keep the enemy guessing and allowed me to keep one in reserve for an open window. Open windows are not easy to exploit with the very low launch rate.

By Brett W Johnson (Bjohnson) on Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 10:43 am: Edit

Mike - I wasn't commenting on the Maesron ship being broken (or not), but only on the TM. I do think that it's trivial for drone users to deal with TMs and difficult for everyone else.

Comparing the WBS to the Maesron... I think a better comparison is WBS(11), since that compares 8 offensive phasers on each and 2 drones vs 2 TM.

The standard P1 is slightly better at most ranges (wide-angle is better at 6/7). I think 8 WAP1 are better than 6 P1. The Maesron WAP1s all have 180 arcs. WBS(BB) has 4 180' and 2 360' arcs. WBS(11) has 6 180' and 2 360'. I would argue that overall, the Maesron has a better offensive phaser suite than the WBS(BB), but worse than the WBS(11).

Your statement on defensive phasers is technically inaccurate. The Maesron has 4 WAP3 compared to 5 P3 on the WBS. Arrangement is not as good and arcs are worse 4 180' vs 5 240'. WBS will always have at least 2 in arc, 3 during typical attacks, and potentially all 5. Maesron has between 1 (front) and 3 (running). WBS is better.

Regarding TGs, all 4 have a 120 degree firing arc (identical to WBS disruptors), however to fire all 4 the Maesron must center-line it's opponent (also true to fire all 8 WAP1). Admittedly this is worse, but not "far worse." Also 2 of the TG can fire directly behind the ship, which opens up some tactical options.

Regarding the capability of the weapon, I think it's tremendously capable and flexible. Crunch power of OL photon up close, accuracy of UIM disruptor at medium range and medium-long range (1-5 out to R16). While it cannot hold a massive energy charge efficiently, the mandatory energy requirement to satisfy arming is only 1/turn each, which adds flexibility. I think it's different and possibly better than the both the photon and the disruptor. It also lacks a major strength of each (photon - ability to hold OLs cheaply, disruptor - fire every turn).

Drones vs. TM... 2xtype1s 24 damage, 8 to destroy vs. 1xTM 8 damage 10 to destroy (or 12/8). TM faster and harder to tractor. IMHO, 2 drones are a fair bit better. However, compared 1 to 1, the TM is far better.

In terms of the non weapon systems, the Maesron has 2 extra shields on the #1 (fairly insignificant) and 2 extra power (significant).

I think it's an interesting ship with a lot of potential.

Another interesting comparison would be to the Seltorian, since their heavy weapon energy holding system is similar.

By David Cheng (Davec) on Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 01:26 pm: Edit

Team SWA's last game of the tournament.

Andromedan (Andro)
vs
DaveC (Hydran)

Happening right now, Saturday July 20th, 1:15 PM EDT.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 01:50 pm: Edit

I'm gonna move the Maesron tactical discussion over to the Tournament section (Omega TCs), in the name of continuing it.

By David Cheng (Davec) on Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 07:10 pm: Edit

DaveC's Hydran defeats the galactic invader Andromedan.

First battle pass dropped my #6 to 1 box after reinforcement, and hurt a fighter.

Second battle pass got through my #2 and did a few internals. Nothing important besides a Ph1. Also hurt fighter #2.

The great downfall of the Andro is the failed Displacement. Both wounded (but not crippled) fighters were able to catch him and exact Hydran revenge.

Don't know what happened to Mr Sheap, but Team SWA goes 2-4 for World League.

Hope to see all you tournament players at Council of Five Nations this year (Oct 11-13).

-DC

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